Topic: BitMarket.eu Eternal withdrawal (Read 6651 times)

Hi! I'm wondering when I might be getting my repayment. I had 20 BTC frozen in December.

naja ich hatte 10 anwalete aus der Liste angeschrieben, ob sie den fall uebernehmen wollen, die waren unter den wenigen die ueberhaupt geantwortet haben und explizit mitgeteilt haben, dass sie kein Interesse haben ;-)

Von den Fachrichtungen her wohl eher eine schlechte Wahl.

http://www.warschau.diplo.de/contentblob/1724272/Daten/2864099/Rechtsanwaelte.pdf

die Liste hatte ich auch,

schreib doch mal den Anwalt "Braun Paschke Rechtsanwaltskanzlei", der auf Forderungseintreibung spezialisiert ist und sag ihm viele Gruesse von mir *g

BS, as I said in the other thread. And for anybody who is interested (at least those from germany), you may check the german embassy in poland (http://www.warschau.diplo.de/Vertretung/warschau/de/04/Rk-Informationen/0-Informationen-Deutsche.html). Just download the pdf "Rechtsberatung" - there is some valuable information to start with.

well, believe it or not, i am not related to bitmarket and/or the admin in any way. I just lost my coins as anyone else, simply a "slightly" bigger amount than you, so i would like to find a USEFUL way out. As i posted in the other thread, going to court or whatever will not help you in any way, maybe you have tried this in the past, but from your comment(s) i assume it will be your first time.

But please make your own experience with an international court case. It takes 2 years or more and will cost you AT LEAST 3000 euros. And in the end it gives you nothing. And no i dont want to scare you off, its just the reality

@mralbi: I posted some questions here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5441.880). If I do not get an answer, I consider you and m4v3r conmen and for that I maybe will not wait until the end of march.

This stupid hacker incident really occured at the worst timing one could imagine, in particular as it happened just after the questionnaire ended and therefore all positive answers might completely have chainged their minds in the meantime..  We are just discussing if those hacked coins should be reimbursed first or not. Or at least faster than the rest or not (no decision taken yet, this will be done on our meeting 15th march), as the problem is simply that there is not much investment money available.

However, the plan is that the site will not be involved with the new site anymore and bitcoins could not be accessed from the site admin(s) at all anymore.


People of course do not lose any rights from going to court against the old admin. From the questionnarie it looks like only few people are not cooperating. Maybe you should contact Maciej directly and "officially" set back your status to non-cooperation plus claim a reimbursement of an amount in FIAT currency (bitcoins are not there and cannot be paid out). Therefore, i think you will not get bitcoins back anyway, as it is simply not possible.

We actually had a legal assessment on this, and the proposal was that "frozen bitcoins" are never "released" to non-cooperative persons, but you might be reimbursed a certain amoint in FIAT currency where the bitcoin price is determined at the date your coins were actually frozen OR the amount you actually paid for them on bitmarket.eu in the past.

I might be interested. I am leaning towards cooperation for the time being, but am not in any way waiving my right to take legal action, even if I decide to cooperate.

Hi there everybody,

I lost around 50 btc in the second theft/"hack" at bitmarket.eu. The questionaire ended before this incident. I already wrote an email to the administrator of bitmarket.eu, that i do neither intent to donate these coins nor am I interested in cooperating with any kind of solution that will be brought up by any person affiliated with bitmarket.eu or the group of new investors.

I will insist on the payout of my stolen bitcoins and I am considering legal action, if I do not get my bitcoins back until the end of march.

As far as I am concerned, I do not believe in the "official information".
To me the second incident smells like screwing the users all over again - steeling their bitcoins and gamble with them.
M4v3r said, there is the chance, that the latest 620 bitcoins could be paid back very soon. He considers himself a security guy and despite this he had his server and the wallet open to the world. No no no, there is something wrong in the state of denmark and I am not gonna take it.
If I have to go the judicial path, so be it. What I will get then I do not know, but at least I tried.

So if anybody here feels and thinks the way I do, maybe we could join forces.

I tend to forget that we are in this pickle together, and that you have lost much more money than I. I realize you are working very hard to make the best of a really crappy situation, and that you probably would rather be working on something else than perhaps recovering some of your losses. My thought was that me investing my coins would alleviate the pressure to reimburse the non-investors, but I will take your suggestion and choose cooperation with the initial plan.

I totally agree with you...unfortunately everyone of us can only decide between crappy solutions. You have full opportunity to invest (whatever amount of) new money and get your part of shares for that.

When you chose the 30% payout it would also be 30% fiat payout based on the price on december when the coins got frozen. Or you can chose to not-cooperate and see how much money you can actually "sue" from the old owner...maybe few % or so at its best. You have to decide between crappiest solutions, but like in my case, i also have limited resources to invest into this project and also other investors (new) capital is limited, as i now tried to look for investors many weeks now and it is not easy to pull "new" money into this bankruptcy project at all. This is now the compromise we negotiated in long "night" discussions.

 When old coins would give 3 times more shares than no one is investing and thats it. This is definetly NOT a good investment for new investors, it is necessary to make compromises.

Since you want to be "passive" investor, it might be better to chose the "cooperate", there you would get your "equal" share of the 50% profits from the new site

I don't agree and I think your view is the complete opposite of mine. Nothing is "easier" with our situation. We don't have the luxury to just forget about it and spend our coins elsewhere. Our coins are trapped between a rock and a hard place, and we have a few poor options to choose between, one of which is to form a partnership with the man who embezzled our money in the first place. I thought the point of this whole operation was to make amends and pay back what is owed. Not to offer the crappiest deal any of the victims would still be willing to accept, while avoiding going to prison. I could be offered pennies to a dollar, and technically that would still be more than nothing at all, but at that point I wouldn't be willing to cooperate any more.

If the decision stands that new coins will have more than twice the buying power of frozen coins, then I will be choosing to collect 30% of my coins and leave this whole mess behind me, (provided the offer still stands.) Then, at least I can choose whether I want to spend my coins on an investment in this company or black tar heroin.

but since the frozen coin is lost anyway it is "easier" to invest than really taking NEW coins into this kamikaze project that might never be able to earn back all the debts that were accumulated by the old admin.

But if you have different proposal you can contact the [email protected]
I think in his mail there were some alternatives presented when i am correct

That is still a problem if a new coin buys a bigger share than a frozen coin. I think in terms of fairness it is fair enough that potential new investors have a reasonable choice of opting out. We who have frozen coins are pretty much forced to cooperate or face losing all of our money.

I propose a division of shares into A and B classes, where A shares have voting power and B shares have not. Otherwise I prefer the option to receive a one-time payout of 30% of the coins owed.

for the old admin i think it is basically impossible to get a loan

How are the personal loans coming? Without personal commitment from the owner to make up for the recent lost coins, I don't see how investors would be willing to invest.

Well, 1 frozen coin is 1 share in case you decide to invest. The question is only how NEWLY invested money is valued in terms of shares. The current proposal is a fairer solution for people that invest NEW money in order to pay back frozen coins...

It is always possible to change back to "non-cooperation" and formally send a claim against bitmarket.eu, but your help to solve the situation in a best possible way would be highly appreciated

I am quite unhappy with the latest development. I am basically being forced into cooperation. I don't want to get short-changed in the process. If the value of coins invested is being fixed to the exchange rate from December 2012, then I'm not investing.

This is really unbelievable! Instead of repaying his debt, M4v3R has somehow managed to lose 600 more BTC! There is no way I'm going to invest in this fishy business now. M4v3R should really take out a loan (from a bank, family or friends) to repay the users for their losses, and then look for another occupation. The only other option is that nobody gets paid and M4v3R does some prison time for fraud.

Edit: I was mad as hell yesterday, and I'm still mad. However, I do NOT wish for M4v3R to go to prison. Nor do I want anything else bad to happen to him. I was just venting.