Topic: BITOOMBA CASINO BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL 200% + BACCARAT LAUNCH! (Read 1907 times)

Beware, they are cheating in roulette - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/beware-bitcoin-casino-is-cheating-changes-outcome-of-their-roulette-450797

Ya we all should just take your word on that... Why not just become provably fair and stop beating around the bush.

Responding that your software "cooks the books"  

In a 8 deck shoe of Baccarat the house edge on a banker bet is 1.06%. Therefore, if you bet $1.00 for 10,000 games, the game balance should be around -1.06%*$10000 = -$100.60
Depending on what deposit and bonus offer you receive, the final balance will be different from casino to casino.

So lets suppose a casino offered you a 200% bonus with a 12x rollover. You will have to look in the fine print but for example BITOOMBA Casino says Baccarat hands equal only .25% of the rollover so we will have to multiply the 12x rollover by 4 to satisfy such bonus. If you deposit $100, just by playing Baccarat alone and only wagering $1.00 per spin you would have to play banker 14400 times to meet such rollover. Lets plug the numbers into the calculation and this is what you should end up around -1.06%*$14400 = -$152.64.

Initial Deposit  + $200 Bonus - $152.64 = +47.36

If this is the case the player has a real edge and is unsuitable for a casino to offer long term especially with bitcoins which anyone could actually create 100 accounts and take such bonus offers. One thing is certain, Most RNG casino software is designed to take advantage of players and without the really dumb providers exposing themselves (casino web scripts for example and also the same software Bit777 shilled for) it sadly goes undetected.

The site that you refer to, refer to a pseudo random number generator that is based on client seed and server seed.
Our games except the dice do not use this mechanism at all.
We guess that what this site is doing, is assuming that the player doesn't change his range frequently, so they presume that the next bet
will be for the same range, and they manipulate the server seed to generate results outside this range.
Note that if you'll keep changing your bet there, you will win more times.

Even if the site will give you a way to change the seed, it wont be very practical since you will not change it on every bet.
Our dice however, generate a random client seed for you on the client side (javascript code that everyone can see and verify).
so that way, predicting the player's bet wont help, since the outcome is driven from 3 factors:

1. Server seed - controlled by the casino  - don't trust it unless its pre-generated and hashed before the playing session has begun.
2. Client seed - fixed on that site.
3. What will be considered as a win  - the range the client select - fixed most of the times

So if 2 & 3 are fixed,  and 1 is not provably pre-generated, (long time before the game play) it's easy for the casino to cheat, by generating server seed that will result in a number outside the player's range.
however, if 2 is constantly changing, with each bet, there is no way the casino can choose a server seed that will generate a result outside the range.

Scam example:

- Learning period:
1. Server picks random seeds, hash them before the roll, sends the hash to the client.
2. Client sends the fixed seed to the server + bet range  (say 0-50)
3. Server calculate the result based on the server seed + client seeds - and check if it's in the range.   
so far fair chance for both parties.

- Scam period
1. The server knows the client seed for the session.
2. The server assumes the client will continue to bet on the range 0 - 50.
3. The server fabricate a seed that combined with the client seed will result in a number > 50.
4. The server hash the seed and sends it to the client.
5. The client makes a bet on 0-50 and looses.

In Bitoomba this is not possible since the client seed changes with every bet.

Just another day of service, only time until these operations dry up as players go elsewhere. Funny thing is some of these RNG operations are legitimate as much as they can be, but choose to lie, manipulate odds, and trick new players as they are actually provably fair.. We will continue to call em out.  

WOW, where/how did you find that site??? I want to add it to my signature  

No, they are not.. You just described provable results the most common used scam instrument on self proclaimed provably fair casino sites here is proof of such: http://v20.nl/primedice/ I will explain to you why which is obvious next.

Provably Fair:

1: players txid or any other input the casino has no control over including a daily site secret.
2: any site that shows you a hash of the site seed used for the next round and allows for users to provide their own seed

Provable Results:

1: shows you a hash of the site seed used for the next round and does not allow users to provide their own seed.

The difference is monumental:

Operator can generate a huge sample of site seeds and client seeds and then cherry pick the results they want. There really is no actual fact or proof of randomness just proof of result.

I entertain myself with the slots, so can't speak on other games. But not that I'm complaining about losing .15 bitcoins, I'll make a statement that I'll elaborate on later because it applies not just to you, but to many casinos using similar software. Your slots 'appear' to pay more than the usual. Except out of about 15 wins, only 1 results in a payout higher than the initial bet. Not in particular sustainable from a player's point of view. Without a 'big' or a 'mega' win, the chances of walking away with something in your pocket is slim.

Here's just a quick run down of my game play (but I don't have to tell you as you can check the logs):

betting the min of 30 chips...

first .1 bitcoin wagered - only five wins resulted in payout higher than 30 chips (.63, 1.53 [big win], .7, .43 with a bonus round that netted me .05)

second .1 bitcoin wagered got better - 10 wins resulted in payout higher than 30 chips, with 3 big wins of .93, 2.06, and 1.05.

It wasn't until the reserves started to get low did the slots decide it's warmed up enough; I got 3 mega wins (one 12.11 at the very last minute to keep me in the game). Even so, it was still just an average of 1 win every 10-15 wins that resulted in payout larger than initial bet.

Is this fair? On the surface these types of slots payout more frequently than others, sure. But the reality is they don't because those frequent wins are so small they count for nothing (average credits won I'd say was less than 10).

But I do like the games and the fact you can choose not to accept the bonus. I also like how the rollover requirements are there from the beginning so you know what to expect.

I've only played here once, so really can't give a detailed review... just thought I'd make mention of my observation, which I'll expand later accusing others   So this just doesn't imply to you, but to most of the fancier joints I've played.

Our games are provably fair. For example in the roulette the results are determined a day in advance so there is no way for us to change them based on the bets placed. Players can verify that the numbers are distributed evenly the next day ( that no one number gets drawn statistically more times than others, and even if there was such a number, that was in the players' advantage since the player can bet on it and win more times).

In card games we are using a true quantum physics random number generator to generate the entire deck of cards. we are shuffling the deck before the game begins, hash it and publish the hash.
The card are then drawn one by one, so we can't know in advance which card will land in which hand since the number of hands the player will play is not known at this point.

On the dice we do use client hash.  We only do not provide an interface to change it manually at the moment, but the JavaScript that generates it can be viewed and manipulated by everyone.

And regarding the slots - our slots are far more sophisticated, they offer many features such as expanding wilds, exploding lines (coming soon) and powerups, that a simple match between a number and a symbol cannot work.
Also, that gives no indication of the actual payout of the slot, so what if the results can be deterministically calculated from a hash. The return to player can still be anything - 30%, 50%, 80% or 97% or whatever. I think our winners speak for themselves.

With regards to the wagering, the player is given the choice of removing the bonus prior to playing with it and thus not having to meet the requirements.

Great point!

I read this as well but it didn't strike me as a surprise like another casino's T&C. My understanding of this section is...

I deposit 10 dollars, get a 10 dollar bonus for a total of 20 in my account. In order to withdraw, I'd have to wager 12x 20 (total of bonus/deposit), which is 240. Which is actually attainable. Most requirements are much higher! But once I reach that 240 threshold, I'd be able to withdraw. However, in the event I attempt to withdraw before wagering the 12x rollover requirement, the bonus won't be granted. So let's say I only wagered 200 but have 5 bucks left. Requirement wasn't met so withdraw won't be granted because I spent my 10 dollars first and that 5 is the bonus.

I guess it's a good thing you can opt out of the bonus because if you don't meet the requirements, you won't withdraw if you haven't wagered past your initial deposit.

But it's all interpretation at this point until someone provides actual experience.

I do not see any game on Bitoomba that allows a player to provide their own seed. With that being said at best you folks should be claiming Provable Results and not Provably Fair as they are two different animals.

We need this poster back and active in the forums soon as possible.

I agree, we do our best to satisfy our players, after all a happy player will come back.

With regards to the fairness, all of our games are provably fair except for the slots. This means Roulette, Blackjack, Baccarat and Dice.

Nope it doesn't... But I'm sure you know how it goes around here. For the most part, it's usually the complainers who post, so this could be favorable, you know.

One concern I have though... I don't see the provable fair piece...

I am not sure if the number of comments a thread on Bitcointalk gets is an indicator of the quantity of players a site has...

Thanks!

... unlike most casino threads, this one has very comments. I suppose this can be vied as a good thing but is this indicative of the number of players to your site?

1BTC equals 100 Bitoombas (Bitoomba credits). Soon we will switch to mBTC (to be announced) and then it will be worth 1000 Bitoombas.

So how much is an actual 1BTC deposit worth? 100 or 1000 credits?

Looks good

Thank you very much!

Hello Bitoomba casino!
Here is review of your bitcoin casino on BitcoinSites.Org: http://bitcoinsites.org/bitoomba/