Topic: Bitoption.org -- ESCROWED LIVE Bitcoin Options Trading - page 13. (Read 36575 times)
I think it would be best to pay dollars for the right to buy (or sell) BTC at some dollar price at some future date.
Update, I've put in a filter to make sure no bids / asks are over 1.0
I'll probably put in a little calculator that says "you'll make money once the price gets to x" as a helper at some point.
As an example, a 12.00 call is in the money right now by say $1. Hence to make a little bit right now, and speculate the market will drop, you should price it at least a bit over 1/12 of a BTC.
I'll probably put in a little calculator that says "you'll make money once the price gets to x" as a helper at some point.
As an example, a 12.00 call is in the money right now by say $1. Hence to make a little bit right now, and speculate the market will drop, you should price it at least a bit over 1/12 of a BTC.
OK,
I've thought about this some more, and am not sure what to do about it. I'd like some input -- should Calls be BTC or USD denominated, that is, what do you pay with for the right to buy BTC for USD in the future?
What's strange about paying BTC is that you have a very non-linear payout curve; so, for example, your guaranteed loss is 100% at 1BTC price; you're paying that whole coin you'll be able to buy later right up front.
Put this way, 4 BTC for a 1 BTC call is obviously a scam.
Puts have this same element to them.
On the other hand, we won't be accepting USD directly, so I don't want to have to make people convert to USD if they don't wish to (although we do have functionality to support this)
What are other's thoughts on this? Simplest would be to limit asks to 1 BTC for calls and puts, and essentially let caveat emptor.
More complex would be redenominating the offers in USD so that you pay USD for the right buy/sell BTC later.
A little more mindbending would be changing the underlying to USD so that you pay BTC for the right to buy/sell USD later. As it is, you pay BTC to buy/sell BTC later. There's nothing mathematically wrong with it, but it may be a little confusing for an already confusing area of finance.
I'd like input before I re-launch the website.
I've thought about this some more, and am not sure what to do about it. I'd like some input -- should Calls be BTC or USD denominated, that is, what do you pay with for the right to buy BTC for USD in the future?
What's strange about paying BTC is that you have a very non-linear payout curve; so, for example, your guaranteed loss is 100% at 1BTC price; you're paying that whole coin you'll be able to buy later right up front.
Put this way, 4 BTC for a 1 BTC call is obviously a scam.
Puts have this same element to them.
On the other hand, we won't be accepting USD directly, so I don't want to have to make people convert to USD if they don't wish to (although we do have functionality to support this)
What are other's thoughts on this? Simplest would be to limit asks to 1 BTC for calls and puts, and essentially let caveat emptor.
More complex would be redenominating the offers in USD so that you pay USD for the right buy/sell BTC later.
A little more mindbending would be changing the underlying to USD so that you pay BTC for the right to buy/sell USD later. As it is, you pay BTC to buy/sell BTC later. There's nothing mathematically wrong with it, but it may be a little confusing for an already confusing area of finance.
I'd like input before I re-launch the website.
Update:
That call is not appealing, since it is BTC denominated.
I will be bringing the site down briefly today to re-denominate calls in USD; this is a bug.
Owner of the call; I'll get in touch with you to see what you'd like to do.
That call is not appealing, since it is BTC denominated.
I will be bringing the site down briefly today to re-denominate calls in USD; this is a bug.
Owner of the call; I'll get in touch with you to see what you'd like to do.
Update: I am SUPER close to having the web interface out the door. Sometime today (GMT).
What's left for an initial humble launch is UI for registering, and hooking up the UI for withdrawing your BTC from the options exchange to the existing API. There are a few niggly backend details to take care of, all told maybe a few more hours of coding, although I have to stop right now for a while.
Also, that call is looking more appealing..
What's left for an initial humble launch is UI for registering, and hooking up the UI for withdrawing your BTC from the options exchange to the existing API. There are a few niggly backend details to take care of, all told maybe a few more hours of coding, although I have to stop right now for a while.
Also, that call is looking more appealing..
I hear that. Keep the questions coming; I'll keep the updates coming. Working on display of quotes and then user system right now.
That's what I'm waiting for
I figure maybe I could learn to use it as is, but there won't be enough trading partners until it is easy, so might as well wait.
What he said.
Also, I want to wait awhile and make sure nobody gets their money stolen.
If you wanted those coins at $12, but only wanted to pay $2, you could write a call at that date for 12 strike, and bid $2. Then the bid/ask spread would be $2/$4, and you'd wait until someone agreed, or a new person came in and made a new offer.
Yep, and those coins are lockboxed while the offer is open; no reneging or cheating is possible (or at least, should be possible!)
[{"num_asks": "5", "best_bid": "None", "underlying": "BTC", "num_bids": "0", "num_active": "None", "strike": "12.0000", "closedate": "2011-08-04", "type": "call", "best_ask": "4.0000"}]
So this means someone has offered to deliver a coin on Aug 4th at $12/BTC in exchange for $4 now and is willing to do that for up to 5 coins. Do I have that just right?
So this means someone has offered to deliver a coin on Aug 4th at $12/BTC in exchange for $4 now and is willing to do that for up to 5 coins. Do I have that just right?
p.p.s, the securitiesList api now lists best ask and bid right in the main list, a little more useful.
Update, we have our first calls posted. Check out https://bitcoin.org/securitiesList
I'm working on the interface spec now.
I'm working on the interface spec now.
Update: the market has spoken with deafening silence.. I'll be putting together a web interface in response.
Requests?
I'll be putting together a web interface in response.Requests?
That's what I'm waiting for
I figure maybe I could learn to use it as is, but there won't be enough trading partners until it is easy, so might as well wait.
Update: the market has spoken with deafening silence.. I'll be putting together a web interface in response.
Requests?
I'll be putting together a web interface in response.Requests?
Bitoption.org is officially in beta.
There are instructions available on the site.
Enterprising programmers: make money by building a web interface, registering as a provider, and getting a little bit of commission for every trade made through your website!
Also, build an API for merchants to use to hedge out their risk -- it would be great to sell things for BTC and know you have a week or two to convert to USD, don't you think? This should be built into BTC merchant apis. Again, you could charge for this.
Enterprising Option traders: make money by trading! I will punch out a short example python client soon.
Finally, I'm tired! I will be available by e-mail, but might not read many forum posts in the next 48 hours.
Enjoy! I will likely ask on some early september calls at 10 if there are any BTC bears out there, just to get the ball rolling.
There are instructions available on the site.
Enterprising programmers: make money by building a web interface, registering as a provider, and getting a little bit of commission for every trade made through your website!
Also, build an API for merchants to use to hedge out their risk -- it would be great to sell things for BTC and know you have a week or two to convert to USD, don't you think? This should be built into BTC merchant apis. Again, you could charge for this.
Enterprising Option traders: make money by trading! I will punch out a short example python client soon.
Finally, I'm tired! I will be available by e-mail, but might not read many forum posts in the next 48 hours.
Enjoy! I will likely ask on some early september calls at 10 if there are any BTC bears out there, just to get the ball rolling.
Ooh, I hate to disappoint you!
I will write a simple client, python based, most likely, just to demonstrate how to use the API. But, >>>it's reasonably well documented, and all the commands have the proper arguments pre-filled on the current documentation, it's not TOTALLY opaque. Just not for non-tech savvy types.
Because anyone can add their own 'provider' commission, I'm hoping someone will punch out an awesome web and client interface; they'll get a cut of any cleared transactions, and I'll get to work on the parts I want to. If that doesn't work, I'll probably put out a bounty for same.
I will write a simple client, python based, most likely, just to demonstrate how to use the API. But, >>>it's reasonably well documented, and all the commands have the proper arguments pre-filled on the current documentation, it's not TOTALLY opaque. Just not for non-tech savvy types.
Because anyone can add their own 'provider' commission, I'm hoping someone will punch out an awesome web and client interface; they'll get a cut of any cleared transactions, and I'll get to work on the parts I want to. If that doesn't work, I'll probably put out a bounty for same.
Any minute now, indeed. Everything looks pretty good, I forgot to implement a withdrawBTC function, so that needs to go in, and I'm writing it right now.
I'm successfully writing, bidding, clearing and exercising contracts right now, plus exchanging on Gox.
Then, one final API check, and we'll be up, BUT you are going to have to write a client, or hand-post to the URLS (not hard to do).
Re: Margin / Balance, etc: I have gone to pretty significant lengths to make sure that the market and each account always stays 'above' water. Lots of assert x > 0 in the code. : ).
At any time, you can call getAvailableBTC(token), or getAvailableUSD(token) and see what your total free, uncommitted balance is. We'll ding you if you try and go over.
The market was also written with every transaction hitting a balance sheet realtime, and I get a notice if the balance sheet doesn't balance.
Put it this way -- I worry about the same thing you all do.
As far as loaning out people's money on the options market, I don't have any plans to do this, and understand completely why this would make people nervous. Right now, it's all hard assets.
I'm successfully writing, bidding, clearing and exercising contracts right now, plus exchanging on Gox.
Then, one final API check, and we'll be up, BUT you are going to have to write a client, or hand-post to the URLS (not hard to do).
Re: Margin / Balance, etc: I have gone to pretty significant lengths to make sure that the market and each account always stays 'above' water. Lots of assert x > 0 in the code. : ).
At any time, you can call getAvailableBTC(token), or getAvailableUSD(token) and see what your total free, uncommitted balance is. We'll ding you if you try and go over.
The market was also written with every transaction hitting a balance sheet realtime, and I get a notice if the balance sheet doesn't balance.
Put it this way -- I worry about the same thing you all do.
As far as loaning out people's money on the options market, I don't have any plans to do this, and understand completely why this would make people nervous. Right now, it's all hard assets.
You mean there is no interface? Is that your next work?
Ah, one more non-coding minute wasted talking about Gox:
I do have plans to be less reliant on Gox; we are all really quite exposed there right now, frankly. Those plans include some serious complications, though. I don't think anybody really wants to have to deal with which exchange your underlying assets are on for a single asset class, so getting some transparency there is an issue.
Long term, if I can solve the money transfer business / know your customer / money laundering issues, the sensible thing would be to just be like Gox and take/send wires; we'd then peg to some agreed-on formula for exchange. What I'm doing now is significantly less logistics, so that's where we'll start. : )
I do have plans to be less reliant on Gox; we are all really quite exposed there right now, frankly. Those plans include some serious complications, though. I don't think anybody really wants to have to deal with which exchange your underlying assets are on for a single asset class, so getting some transparency there is an issue.
Long term, if I can solve the money transfer business / know your customer / money laundering issues, the sensible thing would be to just be like Gox and take/send wires; we'd then peg to some agreed-on formula for exchange. What I'm doing now is significantly less logistics, so that's where we'll start. : )
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