BitPay is officially now an exchange and no longer just a payment provider. - page 4.

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: MineForeman.com on November 01, 2014, 07:54:52 PM

Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 07:42:40 PM

I easily forgave you the first time you tried to shove it up my ass, but there won't be a second time, for you're showing the same fuckin' characteristics as Josh Zerlan, opting to not even get into an intelligent conversation with me showing me where I fucked up, whereupon I would have easily backed down. Now, thanks to your actions, you're on the radar of the dude that has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Well-played! I suggest you quit using Josh Zerlan's playbook while you're still allowed on the field, for it's riddled with errors.

You're a fool.

You have absolutely no idea what your doing.

And now you threatening me.

Just make sure any "evidence" you come up with is better than your normal shit.

Neil

Jesus motherfuckin' Christ! Listen to yourself. You came here and made a point. I kindly disputed your claim paying it no further mind. You came back here to further stick it up my ass. I replied in kind. Now, you come here and claim I'm threatening you, of which is NOT THE FUCKIN' CASE, but for sake of argument, if I were, how the fuck in your mind would I be able to pull off any threat when I don't know what the fuck I'm doing? Hell, with your logic I shouldn't be able to find the door to leave my home, let alone be able to hunt down the driveway.

I had no issues with you. NADA! Yet you have with me. Over what? Trying to advance Bitcoin to better your position. Your welcome. Now go fuck yourself!

BTW, you're still on my radar.

#ASKFTC

PS: Thanks for bumping the thread that you're logical mind is trying to squash. Well-played! Again, toss out that Josh Zerlan's playbook. It filled with errors as I've already informed you.

MineForeman.com

legendary

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Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 07:42:40 PM

I easily forgave you the first time you tried to shove it up my ass, but there won't be a second time, for you're showing the same fuckin' characteristics as Josh Zerlan, opting to not even get into an intelligent conversation with me showing me where I fucked up, whereupon I would have easily backed down. Now, thanks to your actions, you're on the radar of the dude that has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Well-played! I suggest you quit using Josh Zerlan's playbook while you're still allowed on the field, for it's riddled with errors.

You're a fool.

You have absolutely no idea what your doing.

And now you threatening me.

Just make sure any "evidence" you come up with is better than your normal shit.

Neil

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: HobbzHobbleton on November 01, 2014, 07:37:31 PM

So, essentially bitpay only performs certain jobs that a full exchange does, and not the full spectrum. This argument brings us to a question.... What truly defines an "exchange"? Surely there are other sites and programs that provide more of the spectrum than others, yet many opf the ones that are lacking are still considered "exchanges". I mean technically isn't it an exchange by definition just by providing the possibility of purchasing goods and services for a currency? i mean there is an "exchange" happening in that equation.

BitPay's business model is govern by the laws of the US stating exactly what they can and can not do. Acting as a clearing house for BTC to fiat stemming from the sales of services or products is all they're allowed to do, where they even stated that they CAN NOT exchange BTC for fiat when a service or product is not part of the equation. Hell, even some bitcoiners got arrested doing the Local Bitcoins thing on the street. Since BitPay is in an office, does the exact same practice now make it legal? Of course not. And, we're not takin' several tens of grand here. We're talkin' millions within a 30 day period, easily over ten million over the course of the past year. This is a fact!

#ASKFTC

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: MineForeman.com on November 01, 2014, 07:33:33 PM

Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 07:21:40 PM

Instead of calling it FUD, how 'bout just letting me know where I erred?

http://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/d8dd8fcafb08ba5c = 1ERVh27gZfPSDaaagL9R3W12xpMJ38ZBA7

What you are looking at are taints, they are coins that can be associated with addresses that have been tagged by someone as belonging to someone (probably someone else, why would you tag your own coins after all).

It is kind of like Chinese whispers with bitcoins. A good example would be the 20k bitcoin Pizza deal. A vast majority of bitcoins are now tainted by that transaction, that means that fairly much anyone can trace the inputs of their coins back to that pizza.

It does not mean they ate it though.

Neil

P.S. You going on to using people using the same name-server as some sort of "evidence" shows you have absolutely no idea what your doing.

For a person who doesn't know what they're doing, I sure the hell seem to keep getting a lot of traction.

I easily forgave you the first time you tried to shove it up my ass, but there won't be a second time, for you're showing the same fuckin' characteristics as Josh Zerlan, opting to not even get into an intelligent conversation with me showing me where I fucked up, whereupon I would have easily backed down. Now, thanks to your actions, you're on the radar of the dude that has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Well-played! I suggest you quit using Josh Zerlan's playbook while you're still allowed on the field, for it's riddled with errors.

HobbzHobbleton

newbie

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So, essentially bitpay only performs certain jobs that a full exchange does, and not the full spectrum. This argument brings us to a question.... What truly defines an "exchange"? Surely there are other sites and programs that provide more of the spectrum than others, yet many opf the ones that are lacking are still considered "exchanges". I mean technically isn't it an exchange by definition just by providing the possibility of purchasing goods and services for a currency? i mean there is an "exchange" happening in that equation.

MineForeman.com

legendary

Activity: 896

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Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 07:21:40 PM

Instead of calling it FUD, how 'bout just letting me know where I erred?

http://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/d8dd8fcafb08ba5c = 1ERVh27gZfPSDaaagL9R3W12xpMJ38ZBA7

What you are looking at are taints, they are coins that can be associated with addresses that have been tagged by someone as belonging to someone (probably someone else, why would you tag your own coins after all).

It is kind of like Chinese whispers with bitcoins. A good example would be the 20k bitcoin Pizza deal. A vast majority of bitcoins are now tainted by that transaction, that means that fairly much anyone can trace the inputs of their coins back to that pizza.

It does not mean they ate it though.

Neil

P.S. You going on to using people using the same name-server as some sort of "evidence" shows you have absolutely no idea what your doing.

Gleb Gamow

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Activity: 1428

Merit: 1145

Quote from: Argwai96 on November 01, 2014, 07:01:44 PM

Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 03:52:59 AM

Quote from: ScryptAsic on November 01, 2014, 02:05:30 AM

They are essentially a one way exchange in that anyone can open a merchant services account with bitpay, the customer can price something at the amount of bitcoin they wish to sell, then use their own bitcoin to pay for the sale. This would be very similar to how a merchant could potentially swipe their own credit card at their own CC terminal

Again, BitPay is not an exchange. They can ONLY process payments for customers that purchase a product or service off a website, et al. They can not convert BTC to fiat for you or me or even BFL, especially a million dollars worth week after week after week... which is exactly what BFL did just prior to them getting raided on September 19th.

To date, I've uncovered no less than $10M USD that BFL converted to fiat that was deposited into some bank controlled by BFL. BitPay may be able to explain away last year's $1M USD supposedly from HashTrade - which it wasn't - but that's it.

Hell, I'm staring at ~$4M USD missing in only a 30 day period from BFL's coffer. I'm sure so is the IRS and the FBI and the FTC and probably now the CIA, SEC, AAA and NASA (maybe not AAA). BF Labs Inc. has no idea what cans of worms they've opened up due to Sonny, et al.'s, actions. Yet, Josh came here today and tried to quell nerves about BFL's EMC, of which WILL soon be shut down thanks to their former actions.

#ASKFTC

How would bitpay ever know if a merchant is actually selling items to a customer when they process a transaction? I don't think it is possible as a company could simply use their own bitcoin to pay for their own product and then not ship the product to anyone. No one would ever complain about non-receipt of their goods. It would simply look like a large order as far as bitpay is concerned

EDIT: This would probably actually be a good thing considering that the bank accounts that BFL controls are under the control of the FTC receiver now, while it would be impossible/difficult to be able to control all the private keys of BFL with any amount of certainty

To address what's in bold, BitPay could've easily surmised that something's afoot when weekly purchases(?) were made from BFL in nice round BTC figures, unlike most all other purchases in the past, with the exception of the infamous $1M USD from HashTrade that BFL would have had to let BitPay know what it was for otherwise BitPay wouldn't have been able to release the press release espousing such.

Only BitPay and BFL know for sure that the same bank - Harris - was used for all those ~million-dollar transactions.

#ASKFTC

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: MineForeman.com on November 01, 2014, 07:16:46 PM

Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 06:54:07 PM

This is interesting: All three of the following are located on the same exact server: Name Server: DORA.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22dora.ns.cloudflare.com%22+Bitcoin

Wow, you FUD is gaining new heights! The my server uses jay.ns.cloudflare.com & meg.ns.cloudflare.com I must be in on it too!!!!1!!!

Neil

Instead of calling it FUD, how 'bout just letting me know where I erred?

http://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/d8dd8fcafb08ba5c = 1ERVh27gZfPSDaaagL9R3W12xpMJ38ZBA7

Note the [13be0fef96]:

Reads to me like BFL's used their BDF to some other money laundering: http://www.bitcoindf.org/project/bitgive-22/

Quote

If you would like to donate or become a member of our charity selection board, please email [email protected] or send BTC to 1ERVh27gZfPSDaaagL9R3W12xpMJ38ZBA7.

MineForeman.com

legendary

Activity: 896

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Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 06:54:07 PM

This is interesting: All three of the following are located on the same exact server: Name Server: DORA.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22dora.ns.cloudflare.com%22+Bitcoin

Wow, you FUD is gaining new heights! The my server uses jay.ns.cloudflare.com & meg.ns.cloudflare.com I must be in on it too!!!!1!!!

Neil

Argwai96

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Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Thug for life!

Quote from: Gleb Gamow on November 01, 2014, 03:52:59 AM

Quote from: ScryptAsic on November 01, 2014, 02:05:30 AM

They are essentially a one way exchange in that anyone can open a merchant services account with bitpay, the customer can price something at the amount of bitcoin they wish to sell, then use their own bitcoin to pay for the sale. This would be very similar to how a merchant could potentially swipe their own credit card at their own CC terminal

Again, BitPay is not an exchange. They can ONLY process payments for customers that purchase a product or service off a website, et al. They can not convert BTC to fiat for you or me or even BFL, especially a million dollars worth week after week after week... which is exactly what BFL did just prior to them getting raided on September 19th.

To date, I've uncovered no less than $10M USD that BFL converted to fiat that was deposited into some bank controlled by BFL. BitPay may be able to explain away last year's $1M USD supposedly from HashTrade - which it wasn't - but that's it.

Hell, I'm staring at ~$4M USD missing in only a 30 day period from BFL's coffer. I'm sure so is the IRS and the FBI and the FTC and probably now the CIA, SEC, AAA and NASA (maybe not AAA). BF Labs Inc. has no idea what cans of worms they've opened up due to Sonny, et al.'s, actions. Yet, Josh came here today and tried to quell nerves about BFL's EMC, of which WILL soon be shut down thanks to their former actions.

#ASKFTC

How would bitpay ever know if a merchant is actually selling items to a customer when they process a transaction? I don't think it is possible as a company could simply use their own bitcoin to pay for their own product and then not ship the product to anyone. No one would ever complain about non-receipt of their goods. It would simply look like a large order as far as bitpay is concerned

EDIT: This would probably actually be a good thing considering that the bank accounts that BFL controls are under the control of the FTC receiver now, while it would be impossible/difficult to be able to control all the private keys of BFL with any amount of certainty

Gleb Gamow

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Activity: 1428

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This is interesting: All three of the following are located on the same exact server: Name Server: DORA.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22dora.ns.cloudflare.com%22+Bitcoin

Gleb Gamow

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http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/technology/article2236696.html

Quote

It said Butterfly Labs’ funds had been spent at stores “including Nordstrom, Bed, Bath, & Beyond, Restoration Hardware, and Hobby Lobby” as well as for “massages, auto maintenance, day care services, gun stores, hunting stores and sporting event tickets.”

It also noted that the company quickly moved money out of corporate bank accounts once it was received from customers, keeping no more than $2 million in the business accounts at any time.

The FTC also cited a federal mail fraud conviction for which Vleisides, Butterfly Labs’ principal stockholder, was on probation. The court should freeze assets because Vleisides had failed to provide his probation officer accurate information about his own finances, the document said.

“The record shows that once defendants take possession of consumer funds, they quickly exit company accounts, and that defendants, in many instances, have diverted them to personal use,” the document said.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/technology/article2236696.html#storylink=cpy

Reads to me like the FTC was well aware of BFL using BitPay to liquidate BTC to fiat to their bank account and making withdraws, hence only $1.2M USD in BFL Harris bank account by the time they were able to freeze said account.

#ASKFTC

Note: Josh Zerlan has yet to come here and try to disprove the facts laid out above. Maybe he's too busy reading the WTF sub-forum on Reddit. Oh, wait! I've already proved that that's exactly what he's doing now oppose to addressing concerns over on BFL's forum from customers who've paid their hard-earned monies for products they'll now never see, let alone a percentage of their investment any time soon.

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: bitnanigans on November 01, 2014, 04:38:03 PM

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? What are the long term implications?

I honestly believe and hope that BitPay weathers the storm, but it'll be at a great financial cost thanks to BFL's actions. Unfortunately, I have undeniable proof that such was the case, but not privy to discuss such at this time. Suffice to say that Sonny Vleisides and company did tremendous damage to Bitcoin, but that, too, will be weathered, again, at a cost.

#ASKFTC

bitnanigans

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Is this a good thing or a bad thing? What are the long term implications?

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: Lethn on November 01, 2014, 10:02:20 AM

You're not supposed to be rational and understanding! You're supposed to be an ignorant and arrogant bastard who argues with people for several pages despite being provided evidence of being wrong! That's how forum topics are supposed to work!

I'm having a tad of difficulty connecting what you're in reference to, bud.

Lethn

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You're not supposed to be rational and understanding! You're supposed to be an ignorant and arrogant bastard who argues with people for several pages despite being provided evidence of being wrong! That's how forum topics are supposed to work!

segvec

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The cheddar breed jealousy

OP got me excited all for nothing by the title.

Thanks... Cry

Bit N Roll

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I still dont know if I am going to be happy with it or should I just congratulate them and dont comment about anything.

elvizzzzzzz

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"BF Labs Inc. has no idea what cans of worms they've opened up"

Maybe that prompted the SEC's & FinCen's recent initiative that is "exporting" various bitcoin businesses.

Gleb Gamow

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Quote from: ScryptAsic on November 01, 2014, 02:05:30 AM

They are essentially a one way exchange in that anyone can open a merchant services account with bitpay, the customer can price something at the amount of bitcoin they wish to sell, then use their own bitcoin to pay for the sale. This would be very similar to how a merchant could potentially swipe their own credit card at their own CC terminal

Again, BitPay is not an exchange. They can ONLY process payments for customers that purchase a product or service off a website, et al. They can not convert BTC to fiat for you or me or even BFL, especially a million dollars worth week after week after week... which is exactly what BFL did just prior to them getting raided on September 19th.

To date, I've uncovered no less than $10M USD that BFL converted to fiat that was deposited into some bank controlled by BFL. BitPay may be able to explain away last year's $1M USD supposedly from HashTrade - which it wasn't - but that's it.

Hell, I'm staring at ~$4M USD missing in only a 30 day period from BFL's coffer. I'm sure so is the IRS and the FBI and the FTC and probably now the CIA, SEC, AAA and NASA (maybe not AAA). BF Labs Inc. has no idea what cans of worms they've opened up due to Sonny, et al.'s, actions. Yet, Josh came here today and tried to quell nerves about BFL's EMC, of which WILL soon be shut down thanks to their former actions.

#ASKFTC

Topic: BitPay is officially now an exchange and no longer just a payment provider. - page 4. (Read 7058 times)