BitShares? interesting ! bullish - page 10.

Indemnified

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Quote from: AliceWonder on July 25, 2014, 05:55:58 PM

Okay the logic in those last post pretty much seal the deal for me.

It's a scam with slick talkers trying to suck money out of whales.

Please explain the nature of the "scam" in your opinion.

clout

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Quote from: AliceWonder on July 25, 2014, 04:04:30 PM

I have a question about BitUSD

Remember the Liberty Dollar?

Quote

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

That's what brought down the Liberty Dollar.

- from 18 U.S.C. § 486

Since BitUSD is suppose to be equivalent to the US Dollar, have you had lawyers look over case history such as Liberty Dollar and explain how it will not be seen as counterfeiting to the US Government? Has the US Government been consulted?

I'm wondering if BitShares will be declared illegal in the United States.

First of all, BitUSD is a digital currency. The statute that you cited has nothing to do with digital assets.

It is important to understand that all centralized, private currencies have been brought down by virtue of the fact that they are centralized and the government can use its monopoly on violence and force to squash any attempts to compete with fiat currencies. Bitcoin was the first private currency that governments could not take down because it is both decentralized and digital - BitShares as well as BitUSD share these same properties. Just like with Bitcoin there is no central point of control or failure that the government can exploit to shut BitShares down. Whether or not they make it illegal is pretty irrelevant, since they can't shut it down.

AliceWonder

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Okay the logic in those last post pretty much seal the deal for me.

It's a scam with slick talkers trying to suck money out of whales.

FandangledGizmo

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Quote from: clout on July 25, 2014, 05:38:16 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 25, 2014, 04:13:54 PM

BitScam IPO.

Why gotta premine? Just let the free-market work... Roll Eyes

Using mining to allocate shares (coins if you'd like to call them that) is not letting the free market work it is simply creating barriers to access that don't need to be there. It is a method of giving individuals something for nothing, which is probably the antithesis of the free market process.

+1 & I'd even say it's worse than giving them something for nothing, as Bytemaster said in the thread I linked to above, mining actually gives them something in exchange for making society poorer.

Quote from: xf2_org on April 09, 2011, 10:35:28 PM

Mining is rewarding people for consuming resources that produces no residual value and makes all of society poorer for it.

Ie: because of mining electricity costs more and everyone pays for it.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6085.msg83038#msg83038

clout

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Quote from: smoothie on July 25, 2014, 04:13:54 PM

BitScam IPO.

Why gotta premine? Just let the free-market work... Roll Eyes

Using mining to allocate shares (coins if you'd like to call them that) is not letting the free market work it is simply creating barriers to access that don't need to be there. It is a method of giving individuals something for nothing, which is probably the antithesis of the free market process.

FandangledGizmo

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Quote from: smoothie on July 25, 2014, 04:13:54 PM

BitScam IPO.

Why gotta premine? Just let the free-market work... Roll Eyes

Mining is not a basis for fair distribution imo. Long IPO's with equal, low barriers to entry are. I'd rather buy from shareholders who actually took a risk and invested in the company than predatory miners who don't care about the company & just compete to see who can waste the most electricity for the least amount of money. (Usually the richest and most centralised wins)

Also you don't need any shares to make money in DPOS. Delegates get voted for by shareholders and a talented delegate doesn't even need a single cent to his name, if they team up with someone who has a computer and they can convince shareholders they'd be good for the company they can be elected and start earning money from fees and equity release.

The time of wealthy miners taking excess value from users, using inflation (of up to 12% a year in Bitcoin) is coming to an end I believe. I think inflation is kind of sneaky because for the average person it's hard to tell how much of his value the miners are taking. If you had 10 BTC and the miners took 1 BTC every year, people would feel a lot more how wasteful and expensive mining is.

Rephrasing Monty Python here - Power derives from a mandate from the masses not some farcical electricity wasting ceremony.

(Got the image from the main founder of BitShares https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6085.msg83038#msg83038)

brekyrself

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Quote from: smoothie on July 25, 2014, 04:13:54 PM

BitScam IPO.

Why gotta premine? Just let the free-market work... Roll Eyes

Premine? Please explain.

All shares were allocated to people who either held PTS during the snapshot or those who donated to AGS. When you step back this allowed people who did not have the technical knowledge how to "mine" thus opened investing up to anyone. Quite frankly this is a much better method to IPO a coin which you can now let the free market work.

Due diligence on BTSX

Let's talk Bitcoin! episode 129. Starts around 12 minute mark with the lead dev Dan. Great listen.
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-129-dogeparty-and-delegated-proof-of-stake

Titan
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN

DPOS algorithm
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/DPOS

Last but not least the market based trading, think bitUSD, bitGold, bitSilver etc...
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares_X

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

BitScam IPO.

Why gotta premine? Just let the free-market work... Roll Eyes

brekyrself

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Quote from: ethought on July 25, 2014, 04:07:37 PM

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on July 25, 2014, 03:21:03 PM

Quote from: hashtag101 on July 25, 2014, 03:14:54 PM

is therre any time left?

If you want to get BitShares X (The bank & exchange) it's released already and trading on bter and BTC38, you can see it listed on Coinmarketcap.com at no. 8

The bad news is you missed the IPO (Donating) thing they had which ended on 28/02/14, the good news is it's cheaper now to buy than people were paying during the IPO.

(To get access to other BitShares Dac's coming up you buy BitShares-PTS)

So today, is it better to buy Bitshares-PTS or BItshares-X? I have just spent a few hours reading about both and think I am more confused than when I started.. Cheesy

If I understand correctly, Bitshares-PTS is the sort of 'base' asset which gives you potentially a small part of any futures DACs..

Buy both is the correct answer. PTS will give you shares in future projects such as DNS, voting, gaming, and music. PTS has already granted people shares in BTSX, LottoShares, and memory coin.

ethought

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Quote from: FandangledGizmo on July 25, 2014, 03:21:03 PM

Quote from: hashtag101 on July 25, 2014, 03:14:54 PM

is therre any time left?

If you want to get BitShares X (The bank & exchange) it's released already and trading on bter and BTC38, you can see it listed on Coinmarketcap.com at no. 8

The bad news is you missed the IPO (Donating) thing they had which ended on 28/02/14, the good news is it's cheaper now to buy than people were paying during the IPO.

(To get access to other BitShares Dac's coming up you buy BitShares-PTS)

So today, is it better to buy Bitshares-PTS or BItshares-X? I have just spent a few hours reading about both and think I am more confused than when I started.. Cheesy

If I understand correctly, Bitshares-PTS is the sort of 'base' asset which gives you potentially a small part of any futures DACs..

AliceWonder

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I have a question about BitUSD

Remember the Liberty Dollar?

Quote

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

That's what brought down the Liberty Dollar.

- from 18 U.S.C. § 486

Since BitUSD is suppose to be equivalent to the US Dollar, have you had lawyers look over case history such as Liberty Dollar and explain how it will not be seen as counterfeiting to the US Government? Has the US Government been consulted?

I'm wondering if BitShares will be declared illegal in the United States.

AliceWonder

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Quote from: FandangledGizmo on July 25, 2014, 03:14:38 PM

Quote

Fortunately this market is using play money and thus legal. Only prediction markets that deal in fiat have had problems. See hollywood stock exchange for an example.

Didn't ~~DPR~~ Ross Ulbricht's lawyer try to use that argument and the judge struck it down, stating it functioned like money?

FandangledGizmo

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Quote from: hashtag101 on July 25, 2014, 03:14:54 PM

is therre any time left?

If you want to get BitShares X (The bank & exchange) it's released already and trading on bter and BTC38, you can see it listed on Coinmarketcap.com at no. 8

The bad news is you missed the IPO (Donating) thing they had which ended on 28/02/14, the good news is it's cheaper now to buy than people were paying during the IPO.

(To get access to other BitShares Dac's coming up you buy BitShares-PTS)

hashtag101

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is therre any time left?

FandangledGizmo

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Quote from: AliceWonder on July 25, 2014, 02:58:51 PM

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on July 25, 2014, 02:50:08 PM

Complexity? Have you ever seen a website that looked as simple as that? http://bitshares-x.info/

The wallet is easy to set up, the account name feature makes it so much easier than using public keys all the time & it has 10 second confirmation times, could it be simpler or faster?

It's not installing that is complex.
It's the system itself.

It seems to take what is currently simple and adds a layer of complexity which always worries me. I like things to be KISS. less likely for me to end up scammed because I didn't fully understand some aspect of it.

Quote

The awesome 'reason for BitShares X to exist' is coming in an upgrade in a few weeks - 'Market pegged BitAssets' - You'll be able to trade BitUSD, BitGold etc. on a blockchain! Not just some sh*tty user issued assets where you have to trust the issuer like every other system, no BitShares X by using 'high collateral required' short positions, prediction markets & minimum market depth requirements, X is going to have derivative assets that track the value of real world counterparts. Can you see the reason for that?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7778449

Trading platforms that are not regulated I only use in very small quantities. And trading platforms are highly likely to come under federal regulation.
Technically all are suppose to be, you deposit or withdraw certain values and FinCEN needs to be notified.

How does Bitshares handle that, and what protection do I have from money laundering laws if it doesn't do the necessary reporting and I use the system?

I like what they've done with DPOS personally, still getting into the whole voting thing.

Not sure about the legality it's a good question, I would be concerned with that too, my understanding is that prediction markets are treated differently but I can't find the relevant thread atm.

Oh here it is https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2623.0

Quote

Fortunately this market is using play money and thus legal. Only prediction markets that deal in fiat have had problems. See hollywood stock exchange for an example.

AliceWonder

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Quote from: FandangledGizmo on July 25, 2014, 02:50:08 PM

Complexity? Have you ever seen a website that looked as simple as that? http://bitshares-x.info/

The wallet is easy to set up, the account name feature makes it so much easier than using public keys all the time & it has 10 second confirmation times, could it be simpler or faster?

It's not installing that is complex.
It's the system itself.

It seems to take what is currently simple and adds a layer of complexity which always worries me. I like things to be KISS. less likely for me to end up scammed because I didn't fully understand some aspect of it.

Quote

The awesome 'reason for BitShares X to exist' is coming in an upgrade in a few weeks - 'Market pegged BitAssets' - You'll be able to trade BitUSD, BitGold etc. on a blockchain! Not just some sh*tty user issued assets where you have to trust the issuer like every other system, no BitShares X by using 'high collateral required' short positions, prediction markets & minimum market depth requirements, X is going to have derivative assets that track the value of real world counterparts. Can you see the reason for that?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7778449

Trading platforms that are not regulated I only use in very small quantities. And trading platforms are highly likely to come under federal regulation.
Technically all are suppose to be, you deposit or withdraw certain values and FinCEN needs to be notified.

How does Bitshares handle that, and what protection do I have from money laundering laws if it doesn't do the necessary reporting and I use the system?

nutildah

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Quote from: AliceWonder on July 25, 2014, 02:45:51 PM

What will it do for me?

The question is what WONT it do for you, bra. Cool

No but in all seriousness, this is the same idea behind Skynet, more or less. Except this one will be created directly by the public instead of the military so perhaps it won't turn evil so quickly.

FandangledGizmo

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Quote from: AliceWonder on July 25, 2014, 02:28:42 PM

Quote from: counter on July 09, 2014, 02:41:33 PM

+10 for those sharing the info on a potentially very good investment. I've been interested in looking at BitShares but I hesitated mainly because it seemed very complex

I got bored looking at it. If there is a reason for it to exist, I certainly did not grasp it, and the complexity bothered me too.

I'll pass.

Complexity? Have you ever seen a website that looked as simple as that? http://bitshares-x.info/

The wallet is easy to set up, the account name feature makes it so much easier than using public keys all the time & it has 10 second confirmation times, could it be simpler or faster?

The awesome 'reason for BitShares X to exist' is coming in an upgrade in a few weeks - 'Market pegged BitAssets' - You'll be able to trade BitUSD, BitGold etc. on a blockchain! Not just some sh*tty user issued assets where you have to trust the issuer like every other system, no BitShares X by using 'high collateral required' short positions, prediction markets & minimum market depth requirements, X is going to have derivative assets that track the value of real world counterparts. Can you see the reason for that?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7778449

nutildah

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Quote from: clout on July 11, 2014, 08:03:07 PM

Quote from: hamiltino on July 11, 2014, 06:15:11 AM

i would, should, could but i won't.

why not?

Frankly because CfA is pumping it. I realize that at over 5,000 BTC in donations his effect on it is very little but I don't want to get involved in anything that this guy may potentially cause drama over.

I already bought my AngelShares though so I'd prefer if CfA just f'ed off instead.

AliceWonder

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Quote from: Indemnified on July 25, 2014, 02:32:13 PM

Quote from: AliceWonder on July 25, 2014, 02:28:42 PM

Quote from: counter on July 09, 2014, 02:41:33 PM

+10 for those sharing the info on a potentially very good investment. I've been interested in looking at BitShares but I hesitated mainly because it seemed very complex

I got bored looking at it. If there is a reason for it to exist, I certainly did not grasp it, and the complexity bothered me too.

I'll pass.

Exactly what many people STILL say about bitcoin Grin

And bitcoin is still an extremely small part of the market.

But at least with bitcoin, I instantly saw the utility. Even before I had a client or understood it.
It was cash for the Internet, easy to understand.

I just don't see the utility of this, what it will do for me.

What will it do for me?

Topic: BitShares? interesting ! bullish - page 10. (Read 16417 times)