BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched

sumantso

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Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 03:39:11 PM

The idea of a new DPoS currency has value in itself as it's a pretty innovative idea. Maybe it would have been better to start fresh though.

I would've liked to see a new DPoS coin, and I had some suggestions which IMO would've increased its value as a good sharedrop target. Sadly, some saw it as diluting value of PTS and failed to see a bigger picture.

It would be interesting to see if someone can come up with a DPoS coin which adds stealth transaction too in addition to stealth addresses (provided by TITAN). Launched and distributed properly, it would be able trump coins like Monero easily.

sumantso

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Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 03:39:11 PM

Ah, this is a sticky situation then as the decentralised original chain can't just be killed off, I see. I see what some of the controversy is about here.

PTS was allotted 7% in the inflated BTS, and Bytemaster assumed that miners would simply stop mining and all the value, as well as the sharedrop potential would move over to BTS. We all learned a good lesson, and saw the power of decentralized crypto as it carried on.

The PoW chain is now finally dead (I believe). Anyways, some exchanges like Btc38 decided that PTS is no longer valid and delisted it.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: sumantso on December 31, 2014, 03:29:02 PM

It was not a fork, it was a snapshot and a new genesis block was initialized from that. The problem arises, as I3 found out after the merger/inflation (or whatever term alphaBar prefers), that the chain lives on as long as there are miners.

Ah, this is a sticky situation then as the decentralised original chain can't just be killed off, I see. I see what some of the controversy is about here.

The idea of a new DPoS currency has value in itself as it's a pretty innovative idea. Maybe it would have been better to start fresh though.

sumantso

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Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 12:21:03 PM

So was PTS written from scratch by i3?

PTS was created and released by FreeTrade, who used the momentum algo used earlier in his own MemoryCoin. He was awarded a bounty by I3 to do that.

Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 12:21:03 PM

I'm curious as to how easy it was for them to simply switch it over to DPoS. And I also wonder how viable doing that would be for existing PoW currencies.

It was not a fork, it was a snapshot and a new genesis block was initialized from that. The problem arises, as I3 found out after the merger/inflation (or whatever term alphaBar prefers), that the chain lives on as long as there are miners.

In principle every coin can be converted, the trick lies in convincing the exchanges and merchants (if any) to switch over.

Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 12:21:03 PM

It sounds like in this case some people have a large amount of PTS or something and want to get whatever they can out of it.

Mostly correct, the effort was put in by some of the big holders to squeeze out as much value as possible.
Having said that, I know at least one individual who was attracted to the deflationary aspect.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: sumantso on December 31, 2014, 08:44:17 AM

Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 08:19:20 AM

Was AGS or PTS a regular mined PoW Bitcoin fork at some point?

AGS was never liquid, PTS was a PoW coin with momentum algo which favoured CPU mining. After BTS inflated and gave away 7% to PTS and announced that any commitment to PTS is over, the price and consequently the hashrate dropped and the coin was almost dead.

alphaBar with support of some PTS holders decided to release a DPoS version of PTS with a snapshot taken on 14th Dec. Some exchanges like Bter accepted this alphaBar PTS as the 'real' PTS and keeps trading it, others like Btc38 considered PTS as done and delisted it.

So was PTS written from scratch by i3? I'm curious as to how easy it was for them to simply switch it over to DPoS. And I also wonder how viable doing that would be for existing PoW currencies.

It sounds like in this case some people have a large amount of PTS or something and want to get whatever they can out of it. I remember noticing when PTS went down like 90% or whatever and I knew that i3 must of depreciated it or whatever(no more snapshots for DAC shares or whatever).

inarizushi

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PTS DPOS : please buy if you want to make alphaBar rich !

sumantso

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Quote from: Este Nuno on December 31, 2014, 08:19:20 AM

Was AGS or PTS a regular mined PoW Bitcoin fork at some point?

AGS was never liquid, PTS was a PoW coin with momentum algo which favoured CPU mining. After BTS inflated and gave away 7% to PTS and announced that any commitment to PTS is over, the price and consequently the hashrate dropped and the coin was almost dead.

alphaBar with support of some PTS holders decided to release a DPoS version of PTS with a snapshot taken on 14th Dec. Some exchanges like Bter accepted this alphaBar PTS as the 'real' PTS and keeps trading it, others like Btc38 considered PTS as done and delisted it.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Was AGS or PTS a regular mined PoW Bitcoin fork at some point?

bitcube

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Quote from: tonyk on December 27, 2014, 02:05:59 AM

Quote from: shady financier on June 04, 2011, 06:11:26 AM

I apriciate everyones concern and feedback, but please back off. We all get the point and this discussion is interfering with actual productive R&D.

If we are talking about principles here:

1) PTS should live on and be supported by who ever wants to buy in / share drop to it.
2) BTS should ask for a reasonable recognition (20% or less) share drop in future chains.
3) AGS is what it is. It is just another share drop target. I personally thing PTS should have share dropped 10% on AGS for funding its upgrade and freeing it from mining.
4) I don't want DVS to set any precedents.

Somebody else made the comment. But it is soooo good, I decided to borrow it:

Humongous nail in the Alphabar's coffin!

Shocked

And Stan shared his wisdom on his son's comment:

Quote from: ArsenShnurkov on June 04, 2011, 06:48:25 AM

The truth is that which approach is best varies with how each person weights the factors that go into in.

BM apparently weighs honoring the toolkit a bit higher.
Alphabar weighs keeping the distribution unchanged higher.

Both are noble considerations.

BM sees PTS as another chain that is borrowing toolkit technology to upgrade.
Alphabar sees himself as donating his time to help fix something for the community that was broken.

Both are valid perspectives.

All such decisions can be tipped one way or the other by adding just one more little fact or motivation.

That doesn't mean that either side is wrong or evil. We all just weigh the various factors differently.

We need to realize that lots of arguing is not likely to change these weightings. They go deep into each individual's personal beliefs.

Since we aren't likely to change those, we should try to accept the choice of the person who must decide.
Otherwise, we are just continuing to pollute our collective swimming pool with no further benefit.

Whether we grow or fade depends on how fresh and clean we keep the water in this swimming pool.

tonyk

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Quote from: shady financier on June 04, 2011, 06:11:26 AM

I apriciate everyones concern and feedback, but please back off. We all get the point and this discussion is interfering with actual productive R&D.

If we are talking about principles here:

1) PTS should live on and be supported by who ever wants to buy in / share drop to it.
2) BTS should ask for a reasonable recognition (20% or less) share drop in future chains.
3) AGS is what it is. It is just another share drop target. I personally thing PTS should have share dropped 10% on AGS for funding its upgrade and freeing it from mining.
4) I don't want DVS to set any precedents.

Somebody else made the comment. But it is soooo good, I decided to borrow it:

Humongous nail in the Alphabar's coffin!

Shocked

bitcodo

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Can't upload avatar

Thanks

testz

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Quote from: bitcodo on December 18, 2014, 03:01:28 AM

Quote from: bitcodo on December 15, 2014, 12:56:47 PM

Hi, can somebody help me.
I have some coins in my local wallet (from January 2014). I also haven't opened this wallet since january.
For what and where can I exchange this old coins?

I still don't get it. Do I need just import private keys to new wallet(dec 14), or do I need to import keys also to PLAY, MUSIC, BitSharesX and maybe some more?

Yes, you need only to import PTS private keys of the wallet where you have old PTS at 14 December 2014 to new wallet.
New PTS doesn't have any connections with DACs which already sharedrop to old PTS, like Play, Music, etc.

bitcodo

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Quote from: bitcodo on December 15, 2014, 12:56:47 PM

Hi, can somebody help me.
I have some coins in my local wallet (from January 2014). I also haven't opened this wallet since january.
For what and where can I exchange this old coins?

I still don't get it. Do I need just import private keys to new wallet(dec 14), or do I need to import keys also to PLAY, MUSIC, BitSharesX and maybe some more?

alphaBar

newbie

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Quote from: nomoreheroes7 on December 17, 2014, 07:37:30 PM

Agree 100%. The devs saying they "support" this are doing so as a good faith gesture so they don't look like bad guys going against the "social consensus" (that was effectively eliminated upon the merger). And they know there's no way to completely eliminate PTS or someone else will just try to resurrect it all over again, so might as well support it. The devs even returned all PTS donated to them over the past year to show they no longer have any affiliation to PTS after ultimately buying them out with an airdrop of BTS. I cannot support alphaBar PTS as it is no longer indicative of the core BTS community whatsoever. BTS is where it's at.

So they are lying to us. They secretly hate this project but they are going out of their way to support it. TestZ, the custodian of PTS, is also lying about his support which he literally just posted immediately prior to your comment. Flawless logic!

The truth is that PTS has never been better positioned than it is today. As the interest in Bitcoin clones wanes, the Bitshares Toolkit is shaping up to be the choice implementation of the most innovative DACs. PTS is an investment in every future coin built on this technology. Why buy one coin when you can invest in the entire ecosystem?

nomoreheroes7

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King of all the land

Quote from: sumantso on December 17, 2014, 09:50:44 AM

Quote from: alphaBar on December 17, 2014, 02:44:16 AM

Remember, BitShares PTS holders receive a perpetual dividend in the form of ownership in every future BitShares DAC.

Thats false advertising. Core I3 DACs (Bitshares, MUSIC and PLAY) are already allotted, and the future 3rd party DACs have no obligation or incentive to sharedrop on alphaBar PTS (stop calling it Bitshares PTS).

For all those who are confused with the Bitshares name, PTS was originally one of the two sharedrop vehicles for I3 DACs. Last month Bitshares decided to merge and also awarded stake to the PTS holders, and as far as they are concerned PTS is irrelevant. alphaBar, with support from some of the community, decided to create a DPoS version of it and keep it running.

Agree 100%. The devs saying they "support" this are doing so as a good faith gesture so they don't look like bad guys going against the "social consensus" (that was effectively eliminated upon the merger). And they know there's no way to completely eliminate PTS or someone else will just try to resurrect it all over again, so might as well support it. The devs even returned all PTS donated to them over the past year to show they no longer have any affiliation to PTS after ultimately buying them out with an airdrop of BTS. I cannot support alphaBar PTS as it is no longer indicative of the core BTS community whatsoever. BTS is where it's at.

testz

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Quote from: alphaBar on December 17, 2014, 11:32:58 AM

...
Amazing that you will continue to spread your lies everywhere you go. Dan, Stan, Testz, all of the major exchanges, coinmarketcap, and a long list of other core devs have supported the project. Bytemaster updated the original github repository just a couple of days ago with this message (https://github.com/BitShares/BitShares-PTS):

Quote

BitShares PTS is being upgraded to DPOS based on a snapshot on December 14th 2014. The new repository can be found here: https://github.com/PTS-DPOS/PTS http://ptscrypto.com

...

I confirm that I support this project.
Sure, no one can force new DAC developers to honor new PTS instead old one, which almost die because of lack of miners support, but most of BitShares community like new PTS and probably support new DAC developers if they honor new PTS instead old. Time will show.

alphaBar

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Quote from: breakbeater on December 17, 2014, 09:29:36 AM

One dumb question:
i downloaded the new wallet and bought some PTS on exchange, but how am i supposed to withdraw the coins from exchange to my wallet if i don't have coins in wallet to register my account in the blockchain ?

Not a dumb question at all. You can get your public key for your unregistered account from the client, and use that to receive funds. If you paste it here or PM me I can send you some.

alphaBar

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Quote from: sumantso on December 17, 2014, 09:50:44 AM

Thats false advertising. Core I3 DACs (Bitshares, MUSIC and PLAY) are already allotted, and the future 3rd party DACs have no obligation or incentive to sharedrop on alphaBar PTS (stop calling it Bitshares PTS).

For all those who are confused with the Bitshares name, PTS was originally one of the two sharedrop vehicles for I3 DACs. Last month Bitshares decided to merge and also awarded stake to the PTS holders, and as far as they are concerned PTS is irrelevant. alphaBar, with support from some of the community, decided to create a DPoS version of it and keep it running.

Amazing that you will continue to spread your lies everywhere you go. Dan, Stan, Testz, all of the major exchanges, coinmarketcap, and a long list of other core devs have supported the project. Bytemaster updated the original github repository just a couple of days ago with this message (https://github.com/BitShares/BitShares-PTS):

Quote

BitShares PTS is being upgraded to DPOS based on a snapshot on December 14th 2014. The new repository can be found here: https://github.com/PTS-DPOS/PTS http://ptscrypto.com

Here is another message from Stan:

Quote from: Stan on November 30, 2014, 12:03:40 AM

This is awesome guys. Nice job!
I look forward to seeing PTS back in the Top 20 soon.
Gandalf the Grey reappearing to our delight as Gandalf the White!

http://unrelentingamee.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/gandalf-the-white.jpg?w=650

But trolls will be trolls!!!

sumantso

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Quote from: alphaBar on December 17, 2014, 02:44:16 AM

Remember, BitShares PTS holders receive a perpetual dividend in the form of ownership in every future BitShares DAC.

Thats false advertising. Core I3 DACs (Bitshares, MUSIC and PLAY) are already allotted, and the future 3rd party DACs have no obligation or incentive to sharedrop on alphaBar PTS (stop calling it Bitshares PTS).

For all those who are confused with the Bitshares name, PTS was originally one of the two sharedrop vehicles for I3 DACs. Last month Bitshares decided to merge and also awarded stake to the PTS holders, and as far as they are concerned PTS is irrelevant. alphaBar, with support from some of the community, decided to create a DPoS version of it and keep it running.

breakbeater

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Life is a bitch, get used to it...

One dumb question:
i downloaded the new wallet and bought some PTS on exchange, but how am i supposed to withdraw the coins from exchange to my wallet if i don't have coins in wallet to register my account in the blockchain ?

Topic: BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched (Read 2100 times)