BitShares X Now Trading!!! - page 2.

atoni

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Quote from: nakaone on August 21, 2014, 04:34:29 PM

just for my own clarification (correct me if I am wrong, it is important to me)

in Counterparty, NXT, Mastercoin etc. you can create an asset, which has the character of an IOU and is just backed by the trust in the issuer. With Bistshares you have a collateral which is liable for the created BitUSD. Example Bitshare is worth 100 units and creates 33 bitusd - these 33 bitusd units are basically subtracted from the Bitshare? Is this the idea?

If the pegging mechanism works this is really really great.

Thats exactly what I was wondering. But according to that video its open market not pegging mechanism. Also, its not clear to me what happens with colateral in case of fall of btsx price. They claim noone can take money from you.

nakaone

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just for my own clarification (correct me if I am wrong, it is important to me)

in Counterparty, NXT, Mastercoin etc. you can create an asset, which has the character of an IOU and is just backed by the trust in the issuer. With Bistshares you have a collateral which is liable for the created BitUSD. Example Bitshare is worth 100 units and creates 33 bitusd - these 33 bitusd units are basically subtracted from the Bitshare? Is this the idea?

If the pegging mechanism works this is really really great.

TaunSew

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Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 04:31:32 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 04:23:00 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:55:09 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 03:46:26 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral.

Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem.

Ripple was 100% premined not 50%. BitshareX was also 100% premine.

In Ripple price is determined by market not by trust

Also, what do you call funny money? Gold backed by GBI (one of largest gold trader in world) is to you funny money but asset backed by asset itself (by bitsharex to be precise) is not funny money? If you want to trade real assets you have to trust someone. Only in case where you are not trading anything there is no trust. So if you want to trade USD for any crypto you have to trust that those USD are actually in bank account. As I understood, in BitSharesX you are not trading any real money or real assets. That would for me be definition of funny money.

Anyway, this is not about Ripple, its about BitSharesX.

So can you please tell me how do market peg assets work?

Yes.. It was 100% premined. What I meant was half of the premine was kept by the company, whereas in other cryptos (including Bitshares) it is more evenly distributed to end users.

Honestly I'm not too privy on how ripple works, I need to do more research on it. Ripple labs keeping 50% of the premine is a no go for me, so I will assume you are correct. To each their own I guess, but I have no interest in making some company's board members rich.

I did explain how BitsharesX bitassets work properly in my post though. Maybe this makes it more clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

Currently Ripple Labs holds 72% of XRP not 50%

But that doesnt mean it wont be distributed.

Yes I watched the video, still dont get it, please read my post above this one and maybe you can answer my question about colateral. Thank you

What happens? He makes a post: "You dun understand how Bitshares werks"

It is the ad Hominem or Ad Hominemous chain within Bitshares X, proprietary technology.

atoni

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Activity: 168

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 04:23:00 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:55:09 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 03:46:26 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral.

Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem.

Ripple was 100% premined not 50%. BitshareX was also 100% premine.

In Ripple price is determined by market not by trust

Also, what do you call funny money? Gold backed by GBI (one of largest gold trader in world) is to you funny money but asset backed by asset itself (by bitsharex to be precise) is not funny money? If you want to trade real assets you have to trust someone. Only in case where you are not trading anything there is no trust. So if you want to trade USD for any crypto you have to trust that those USD are actually in bank account. As I understood, in BitSharesX you are not trading any real money or real assets. That would for me be definition of funny money.

Anyway, this is not about Ripple, its about BitSharesX.

So can you please tell me how do market peg assets work?

Yes.. It was 100% premined. What I meant was half of the premine was kept by the company, whereas in other cryptos (including Bitshares) it is more evenly distributed to end users.

Honestly I'm not too privy on how ripple works, I need to do more research on it. Ripple labs keeping 50% of the premine is a no go for me, so I will assume you are correct. To each their own I guess, but I have no interest in making some company's board members rich.

I did explain how BitsharesX bitassets work properly in my post though. Maybe this makes it more clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

Currently Ripple Labs holds 72% of XRP not 50%

But that doesnt mean it wont be distributed.

Yes I watched the video, still dont get it, please read my post above this one and maybe you can answer my question about colateral. Thank you

atoni

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 04:19:23 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 04:11:28 PM

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 04:03:57 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:59:47 PM

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

No inflation by definition isn't infinite.
If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation.

No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value.
BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position.

If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.)

Yes, inflation by definition is infinite. If you say I will pay you 10k in 10 years by 1k a year that is not inflation.

Ah, so it will really be pegged to market price? Basically, I can buy 100k Apple stock and if it reaches 200k and I sell it I will really get 200k from bitsharesx? Or will I have to find buyer on network willing to buy it from me?

Well, if you understand how big they are then you understand them. I dont care about buying pressure, I was just interested if what they say on web site that you can move money from one bank account to another is true as I would use alternatives to Ripple for sending money if they are on more exchanges. But that is not possible unfortunately.

No if Bitcoin stopped mining today there would be no inflation. The coins that are created inflate the current supply.

Yes you will get 200k if the peg holds, watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

I did watch video. So what happens with collateral if price of bitsharex falls for example 50%?

CoinHoarder

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Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:55:09 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 03:46:26 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral.

Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem.

Ripple was 100% premined not 50%. BitshareX was also 100% premine.

In Ripple price is determined by market not by trust

Also, what do you call funny money? Gold backed by GBI (one of largest gold trader in world) is to you funny money but asset backed by asset itself (by bitsharex to be precise) is not funny money? If you want to trade real assets you have to trust someone. Only in case where you are not trading anything there is no trust. So if you want to trade USD for any crypto you have to trust that those USD are actually in bank account. As I understood, in BitSharesX you are not trading any real money or real assets. That would for me be definition of funny money.

Anyway, this is not about Ripple, its about BitSharesX.

So can you please tell me how do market peg assets work?

Yes.. It was 100% premined. What I meant was half of the premine was kept by the company, whereas in other cryptos (including Bitshares) it is more evenly distributed to end users.

Honestly I'm not too privy on how ripple works, I need to do more research on it. Ripple labs keeping 50% of the premine is a no go for me, so I will assume you are correct. To each their own I guess, but I have no interest in making some company's board members rich.

I did explain how BitsharesX bitassets work properly in my post though. Maybe this makes it more clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: TaunSew on August 21, 2014, 04:11:51 PM

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 04:03:57 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:59:47 PM

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

No inflation by definition isn't infinite.
If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation.

No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value.
BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position.

If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.)

Right. Because it's impossible for NXT or any other asset exchange to add in real time tracking, right? What sorcery does Bitshares X have to patch in a number reports from Yahoo or whatever the source is?

This thing is pretty much NXT's asset exchange with a few extra added ribbons to it.

I can create my own asset on Bitshares call "BitUsd", sell a million of that for... $1 million real USD and profit.

You still don't understand bitassets

FandangledGizmo

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Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 04:11:28 PM

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 04:03:57 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:59:47 PM

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

No inflation by definition isn't infinite.
If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation.

No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value.
BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position.

If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.)

Yes, inflation by definition is infinite. If you say I will pay you 10k in 10 years by 1k a year that is not inflation.

Ah, so it will really be pegged to market price? Basically, I can buy 100k Apple stock and if it reaches 200k and I sell it I will really get 200k from bitsharesx? Or will I have to find buyer on network willing to buy it from me?

Well, if you understand how big they are then you understand them. I dont care about buying pressure, I was just interested if what they say on web site that you can move money from one bank account to another is true as I would use alternatives to Ripple for sending money if they are on more exchanges. But that is not possible unfortunately.

No if Bitcoin stopped mining today there would be no inflation. The coins that are created inflate the current supply.

Yes you will get 200k if the peg holds, watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

atoni

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: From Above on August 21, 2014, 04:15:08 PM

Quote from: TaunSew on August 21, 2014, 04:11:51 PM

This thing is pretty much NXT's asset exchange with a few extra added ribbons to it.

I can create my own asset on Bitshares call "BitUsd", sell a million of that for... $1 million real USD and profit.

utopianfuture plz educate urself on bitshares first b4 posting bullshit like this Sad

all the resources r there to read man :/

how can u even compare this with nxts asset exchange? LOL u must be trying to make a good clownz joke here

~CfA~

I am glad CfA found one crypto he likes

I thought you were only into renmimbi.....glad to see you turn around

Have fun!

From Above

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Activity: 700

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Quote from: TaunSew on August 21, 2014, 04:11:51 PM

This thing is pretty much NXT's asset exchange with a few extra added ribbons to it.

I can create my own asset on Bitshares call "BitUsd", sell a million of that for... $1 million real USD and profit.

utopianfuture plz educate urself on bitshares first b4 posting bullshit like this Sad

all the resources r there to read man :/

how can u even compare this with nxts asset exchange? LOL u must be trying to make a good clownz joke here

~CfA~

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 04:03:57 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:59:47 PM

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

No inflation by definition isn't infinite.
If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation.

No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value.
BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position.

If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.)

Right. Because it's impossible for NXT or any other asset exchange to add in real time tracking, right? What sorcery does Bitshares X have to patch in a number reports from Yahoo or whatever the source is?

This thing is pretty much NXT's asset exchange with a few extra added ribbons to it.

I can create my own asset on Bitshares call "BitUsd", sell a million of that for... $1 million real USD and profit.

atoni

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 04:03:57 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:59:47 PM

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

No inflation by definition isn't infinite.
If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation.

No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value.
BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position.

If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.)

Yes, inflation by definition is infinite. If you say I will pay you 10k in 10 years by 1k a year that is not inflation.

Ah, so it will really be pegged to market price? Basically, I can buy 100k Apple stock and if it reaches 200k and I sell it I will really get 200k from bitsharesx? Or will I have to find buyer on network willing to buy it from me?

Well, if you understand how big they are then you understand them. I dont care about buying pressure, I was just interested if what they say on web site that you can move money from one bank account to another is true as I would use alternatives to Ripple for sending money if they are on more exchanges. But that is not possible unfortunately.

FandangledGizmo

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Activity: 1138

Merit: 1001

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:59:47 PM

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

No inflation by definition isn't infinite.
If there is 10%+ inflation in Bitcoin per year, it means demand has to at least offset that to cover the inflation.

No it's not like a token, anybody can issue an Apple asset on NXT or something but it won't track the price, it has no value.
BitAssets track by consensus and use collateral to back up the position.

If you don't believe the peg will hold don't buy BTSX, the buying pressure now is because people have seen the dry runs and are confident in the mechanism when it is released soon. (As I said I'm not expert I just understand how big they are if they work, I suggest you go to the forum to learn more.)

FandangledGizmo

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Activity: 1138

Merit: 1001

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 03:46:53 PM

Quote from: instacalm on August 21, 2014, 03:41:58 PM

Is it live now?

The columns need to be bigger or the text smaller... The numbers kind of blend together.

I think that's just a screenshot from bter

The screenshot will probably look something like this I think

Quote from: MoonShadow on April 25, 2011, 11:18:47 PM

Coming soon to a BTS wallet near you...

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=post;quote=95649;topic=7170.0

atoni

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: FandangledGizmo on August 21, 2014, 03:55:51 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

How will market pegged assets work? For example, I buy 10k USD worth of Apple stock, if it goes 100% up I cashout 20k. Did someone actually buy and sold those stocks or it is just like play money that brokers offer you for practice? If its like play money who pays the profit of 10k USD?

1. Yes it was kind of because it offers more services than a crypto-currency.

2. I didn't know Ripple was 5 seconds.

3. Yes there is greater than 10% inflation via Bitcoin in mining.

4. Someone who thinks Apple will go down will short Apple and then you buy and the trade is matched and the asset is created. The short posts collateral as do new people when they make trades. So whenever you want to sell your position is covered. I can't explain it that well, go see the forums.

This video may help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

There is no inflation in bitcoin if you know the total number that will be created. That is not inflation. Inflation by definition is infinite.

I see, so its not market pegged but trading token named as Apple with other people, basically free market? That is not same as market pegged, you depend of orders of other people rather then of market price of Apple.

Thnx for clarification.

FandangledGizmo

legendary

Activity: 1138

Merit: 1001

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

How will market pegged assets work? For example, I buy 10k USD worth of Apple stock, if it goes 100% up I cashout 20k. Did someone actually buy and sold those stocks or it is just like play money that brokers offer you for practice? If its like play money who pays the profit of 10k USD?

1. Yes it was kind of because it offers more services than a crypto-currency.

2. I didn't know Ripple was 5 seconds.

3. Yes there is greater than 10% inflation via Bitcoin in mining.

4. Someone who thinks Apple will go down will short Apple and then you buy and the trade is matched and the asset is created. The short posts collateral as do new people when they make trades. So whenever you want to sell your position is covered. I can't explain it that well, go see the forums.

This video may help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

atoni

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 03:46:26 PM

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral.

Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem.

Ripple was 100% premined not 50%. BitshareX was also 100% premine.

In Ripple price is determined by market not by trust

Also, what do you call funny money? Gold backed by GBI (one of largest gold trader in world) is to you funny money but asset backed by asset itself (by bitsharex to be precise) is not funny money? If you want to trade real assets you have to trust someone. Only in case where you are not trading anything there is no trust. So if you want to trade USD for any crypto you have to trust that those USD are actually in bank account. As I understood, in BitSharesX you are not trading any real money or real assets. That would for me be definition of funny money.

Anyway, this is not about Ripple, its about BitSharesX.

So can you please tell me how do market peg assets work?

instacalm

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2014, 03:46:53 PM

Quote from: instacalm on August 21, 2014, 03:41:58 PM

img: http://i.imgur.com/yzr3ide.png

Is it live now?

The columns need to be bigger or the text smaller... The numbers kind of blend together.

Pardon, this is just BTER trading of BTSX/BTC -- unfortunately it has such CSS issues on small window resolution.

https://bter.com/trade/btsx_btc

edit: see below for a screenshot of trading within the BTSX client.

CoinHoarder

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Activity: 1484

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: instacalm on August 21, 2014, 03:41:58 PM

Is it live now?

The columns need to be bigger or the text smaller... The numbers kind of blend together.

CoinHoarder

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1026

In Cryptocoins I Trust

Quote from: atoni on August 21, 2014, 03:33:43 PM

I see, so its calling a crypto currency a bank.

Also, that table is quite inaccurate. Ripple transaction time is 5 seconds and it was first that allows users created assets. There is also no 10% inflation via mining in bitcoin.

Ripple require trust for gateways to operate, bitassets do not require trust as the price is determined transparently on a decentralized block chain via a free market. In Bitshares, consensus is determined by people going short or long on an asset, and collateral is held to make sure the proper value is retained as determined by the market. In Ripple, price is determined by trusting the gateway they are holding the correct amount of collateral.

Also Ripple was 50% premined by a small corporation making the people within the company rich overnight... Meh. I think Stellar has a better distribution if you like the Ripple model, but I don't like that model because it requires users to trust the gateways that they aren't trading funny money. BitshareSX bitassets solves this problem.

Topic: BitShares X Now Trading!!! - page 2. (Read 12665 times)