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Topic: Bitstamp's stolen BTC on the move - page 2. (Read 4789 times)

legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
January 07, 2015, 08:19:02 PM
#45
Let's hope they will dump in btc-e  and all my bids  get filled. Or maybe bitstamp, have orders there too.  Grin

I doubt they will sell the coins on the same exchange they stole them from.   Wink

This does present an interesting point though- for example would an exchange have claim to the stolen funds after some time has passed and the coin has (legitimately) changed hands many times after the thief dumped them. I suppose not, as that could destroy confidence.

Are we moving closer to white/grey/black market coins?

They shouldn't.
If they do and try seize coins, it will be a lengthy legal process before it gets settled.
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 117
January 07, 2015, 02:16:44 PM
#44
It's rather ironic the desire for decentralized, anonymous activity, but as soon as the masked thieves come out to play, it's a witch hunt to find out who did it.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1057
bigtimespaghetti.com
January 07, 2015, 02:06:47 PM
#43
I don't believe that marking coins is a good idea, just interesting to think about since most people crave reassurance and security.

that RFID chip stuff is crazy.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1039
January 07, 2015, 01:25:57 PM
#42
I agree about marking coins. Maybe they stole it but now coins changed owner and let it be. No one have right to point finger where the cois should go or who should or shouldn't own it. If we start burning coins shady coins or block them or marking them we might as well turn the lights of ans come back to fiat.

Maybe i see this wrong but this 19k of coins is nice bug bounty for who ever found way to get in to the system.


Little geek shit: 500 euro notes have RFID chips bonded to track notes.



legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
January 07, 2015, 12:43:36 PM
#41
wtf you guys.  I can't believe you're talking about blacklisting these coins, as if that would be a good thing. No.

That would be one giant leap toward the traditional banking cartel. When you receive payment for something, do you want to have to check to see if any of those bits you got were from these stolen coins (or the thousands of others)? Were they within a couple transactions of these coins? Comb the entire transaction history to make sure they are not blacklisted somewhere? That sounds like a huge burden. Are you going to pay to have someone else do that for you? Those are the only 2 choices.

You want every coin to have special rules attached to it? Oh, this coin can't go to Bitstamp, and that one can't go to XXXX. That makes some coins worth more than others, and it means you're taking a risk every time you buy coins which you can't verify the history of. Fungibility is one of the key properties of bitcoin that make it better than the alternatives. You should not throw it away to maybe make this one guy's life more difficult.

Yeah, it sucks that these coins were stolen, and it's looking like the person who perpetrated the act may in fact be a bad guy. But it's time to shift the paradigm folks. These coins were stolen because it was possible to steal them. Bitstamp made that possible. Traditional money services have high fees to cover this shit, and bitcoin has low fees because it's secure, and you don't need to cover this shit if you're transacting properly. If you do something dumb, it's on you, we're not charging the consumers for the mistakes and inefficiencies of the money transmitters anymore. That's the point of bitcoin.

Bitstamp is in the process of rewriting their entire system from the ground up, to prevent this sort of thing happening again. Can you imagine Visa doing this after the Target hack? No, they keep doing the same thing, because you guys keep paying for their losses. There's no point in them changing anything. Bitstamp had suck ass security, a hacker fined them 5 million dollars for it. Their security (supposedly) will improve as a result. Gox died as a result, and we'd all have been better off if it happened way sooner than it did. Incompetence is not an option in this space, unless you have a shit ton of money to burn.

quite agree. its great the coins can be tracked, and this can probably help in tracing and capturing and bring to justice the perpetrators. traditional law enforcement should enforce the law.

in the meantime bitcoin should just carry on being bitcoin and not be concerned about who owns what coins and whether one coin is any less valid than any other.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
January 07, 2015, 12:34:49 PM
#40
i hate tainting to.
it just kills bitcoins fungibility...

but the reality is that some coins are already tainted and are not accepted by eg coindesk.

just use monero if you dont like that fact Wink
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1001
January 07, 2015, 12:32:13 PM
#39
wtf you guys.  I can't believe you're talking about blacklisting these coins, as if that would be a good thing. No.

That would be one giant leap toward the traditional banking cartel. When you receive payment for something, do you want to have to check to see if any of those bits you got were from these stolen coins (or the thousands of others)? Were they within a couple transactions of these coins? Comb the entire transaction history to make sure they are not blacklisted somewhere? That sounds like a huge burden. Are you going to pay to have someone else do that for you? Those are the only 2 choices.

You want every coin to have special rules attached to it? Oh, this coin can't go to Bitstamp, and that one can't go to XXXX. That makes some coins worth more than others, and it means you're taking a risk every time you buy coins which you can't verify the history of. Fungibility is one of the key properties of bitcoin that make it better than the alternatives. You should not throw it away to maybe make this one guy's life more difficult.

Yeah, it sucks that these coins were stolen, and it's looking like the person who perpetrated the act may in fact be a bad guy. But it's time to shift the paradigm folks. These coins were stolen because it was possible to steal them. Bitstamp made that possible. Traditional money services have high fees to cover this shit, and bitcoin has low fees because it's secure, and you don't need to cover this shit if you're transacting properly. If you do something dumb, it's on you, we're not charging the consumers for the mistakes and inefficiencies of the money transmitters anymore. That's the point of bitcoin.

Bitstamp is in the process of rewriting their entire system from the ground up, to prevent this sort of thing happening again. Can you imagine Visa doing this after the Target hack? No, they keep doing the same thing, because you guys keep paying for their losses. There's no point in them changing anything. Bitstamp had suck ass security, a hacker fined them 5 million dollars for it. Their security (supposedly) will improve as a result. Gox died as a result, and we'd all have been better off if it happened way sooner than it did. Incompetence is not an option in this space, unless you have a shit ton of money to burn.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1057
bigtimespaghetti.com
January 07, 2015, 12:11:37 PM
#38
Let's hope they will dump in btc-e  and all my bids  get filled. Or maybe bitstamp, have orders there too.  Grin

I doubt they will sell the coins on the same exchange they stole them from.   Wink

This does present an interesting point though- for example would an exchange have claim to the stolen funds after some time has passed and the coin has (legitimately) changed hands many times after the thief dumped them. I suppose not, as that could destroy confidence.

Are we moving closer to white/grey/black market coins?
hero member
Activity: 622
Merit: 500
January 07, 2015, 10:58:48 AM
#37
Let's hope they will dump in btc-e  and all my bids  get filled. Or maybe bitstamp, have orders there too.  Grin

I doubt they will sell the coins on the same exchange they stole them from.   Wink
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
January 07, 2015, 10:55:10 AM
#36

Never used inputs.io, but I'm 100% sure about what I'm saying about Instawallet. They had a wallet, and when you withdrew, you would get BTC out of random addresses.

you are right, i never used instawallet but always thought they where something like a brainwallet...
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom
January 07, 2015, 08:33:08 AM
#35


18,000 from one address -> tumbler -> 18,000 at different addresses -> 18,000 at one address

Good luck finding my hacked coins suckers!

And....they're gone

they are not gone, thye have just moved to several new addresses
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
January 07, 2015, 08:28:10 AM
#34


18,000 from one address -> tumbler -> 18,000 at different addresses -> 18,000 at one address

Good luck finding my hacked coins suckers!

And....they're gone
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
January 07, 2015, 08:27:43 AM
#33
Let's hope they will dump in btc-e  and all my bids  get filled. Or maybe bitstamp, have orders there too.  Grin

Even though the rest of us dont have close contact with the likes of BTC-e i bet bitstamp have been in contact with all the big exchanges and are ready to do deals with them.
sr. member
Activity: 500
Merit: 250
January 07, 2015, 08:19:49 AM
#32

Quote
354.06 BTC are still missing, and will likely never be found, but this nevertheless leaves OzCoin with a much softer blow than what anyone expected.


successfully


better than nothing....

I don't care about the coins about the "hackers" about bitstamp...

What I am asking all those people who claim that the coins will be traced no matter what to come here and show me how they traced all the coins here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-of-major-bitcoin-heists-thefts-hacks-scams-and-losses-old-83794

ps.

But not by hackers!

Someone reported the first theft of four physical bitcoins in a recent burglary.

Quote from: a_buyer_of_physical_bitcoins_in_Canada

Oh I forgot to mention out of the first batch of coins I purchased I had given a few away, 4 of them had been physically stolen in a burglary, the guys had been later caught and some of the items recovered, jewelry etc,, but no bitcoins not sure if they got spent/sold or what Smiley


I find it novel to point out that this is about the only way physical bitcoins can be stolen... same as cash.

The four physical bitcoins are active and legitimate, so nobody needs to worry about their own coins being at risk.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom
January 07, 2015, 08:15:07 AM
#31

Quote
354.06 BTC are still missing, and will likely never be found, but this nevertheless leaves OzCoin with a much softer blow than what anyone expected.


successfully


better than nothing....
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
January 07, 2015, 08:14:37 AM
#30
Hackers will split those coins into 20,000 addresses and it will be impossible to trace them. Good luck to bitstamp if they want to trace them.
sr. member
Activity: 500
Merit: 250
January 07, 2015, 08:13:54 AM
#29

Quote
354.06 BTC are still missing, and will likely never be found, but this nevertheless leaves OzCoin with a much softer blow than what anyone expected.


successfully
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom
sr. member
Activity: 500
Merit: 250
January 07, 2015, 08:07:29 AM
#27
can somebody give 1 example of successfully tracked stolen coins ?
sgk
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
!! HODL !!
January 07, 2015, 08:05:39 AM
#26
If I were the hacker, I wouldn't try to sell the tumbled coins on an exchange (with KYC) for quite some time, too risky.
Instead, I would send them to multiple altcoin exchanges (that have no KYC) and pump up some less traceable alts.
Another possibility is to sell some of the tumbled BTC to fences on localbitcoins.

Correct.

If I had that many hacked coins, I would sell no more than 10 coins a day, and would prefer to sell them offline or use localbitcoins.com
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