Bjarne Stroustrup is disappointed that C++ is being used by BTC

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Artemis3 on November 18, 2019, 03:10:39 PM

mining is more related to cgminer (or forks), which happen to be what most asic mining devices use and that's written in C, not C++

great point, it turns out Stroustrup has done little or no reading on the subject of Bitcoin mining (I am embarassed to have forgotten that cgminer is what drives all mining units, I doubt that's changed even in 2019)

Artemis3

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Quote from: Saint-loup on November 12, 2019, 07:37:50 AM

“Let me say it this way. When you build the tool, you don’t know how it’s going to be used. You try to improve the tool looking at how it’s being used, but really, you have no control over how the thing is used.”

Stroustrup continued, “So, I’m very happy and proud of some things C++ is being used at and some other things I wish people wouldn’t do. Bitcoin mining is my favorite example. It uses as much energy as Switzerland and mostly serves criminals.”

Well he is wrong. Perhaps his current Bank employer has fed his head with FUD, or he is simply repeating like a parrot whatever the media says without stopping to study things properly.

Besides mining is more related to cgminer (or forks), which happen to be what most asic mining devices use and that's written in C, not C++

We have discussed countless times those same old lies repeated again and again here. "Mostly serves criminals" is as insulting as it can get. This reminds me of certain developer of certain project that used nearly the very same words about Tor, freedom be damned if a "criminal" happens to use the tool...

Except crime prefers fiat and their adoption is identical to worldwide adoption, if not less since they trust fiat more...

He is just attacking Bitcoin out of ignorance, maybe he just wanted to look nice in the interview and wanted a "counterpoint" Well i'm sure c++ is also used in worldwide mass surveillance, state oppression, terrorism, espionage and whatnot. Maybe he justs wants people to discard "the tool" and move to Rust or something...

Carlton Banks

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well, Stroustrup is well-known as the deviser of C++. That is seemingly unrelated to banks, which is closer to what I meant. Didn't realize he's now working for a bank, I have no idea about the rest of Stroustrup's employment history either

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 13, 2019, 07:42:35 AM

ok, but Bjarne Stroustrup is not a banker, and seemingly unrelated to banks

He's employed by a bank. How does that make him unrelated? Getting a paycheck for being a managing director is unrelated?

He should know better that when you create something and allow people to use it the uses will be various. One guy uses a computer to teach children at school, the other one to watch child porn. Should the computer sellers be disappointed? Bjarne is whining like a little girl. I hope his bank gets wasted by Bitcoin and sacks him.

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Quote from: Saint-loup on November 12, 2019, 07:37:50 AM

“Let me say it this way. When you build the tool, you don’t know how it’s going to be used. You try to improve the tool looking at how it’s being used, but really, you have no control over how the thing is used.”

Stroustrup continued, “So, I’m very happy and proud of some things C++ is being used at and some other things I wish people wouldn’t do. Bitcoin mining is my favorite example. It uses as much energy as Switzerland and mostly serves criminals.”

Plenty of tools out there, used and misused. Dynamite. Explosives. Atomic energy. Guns. Knives.

For a monetary system to use as much energy as Switzerland, but service the entire world, I think that's a good use of energy. Energy is required to secure the network, keep it decentralized. And it's only the base or first layer.

PeRo

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I get that some people don't like or endorse the use of Bitcoin, but the statement that mining is mostly done by criminals isn't even close to true. Criminals use Bitcoin, but mining doesn't really have anything to do with it, Bitcoin is mostly used only for transfering money undetected. He has the right to be unhappy that Bitcoin is using C++, but as he is, Bitcoin users are also unhappy because criminals are destroying Bitcoins reputation.

Also, Bitcoin wasting energy is not some valid point. It's not like we are going to run out of electricity, we aren't relying on expendable sources so it isn't that a problem. If you pay for the electricity, you should have the right to do anything with it.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on November 13, 2019, 09:50:51 AM

At this point "Bitcoin is wasting energy and is only used by criminals" is a common misconception

it does seem strange that someone as technically minded as Stroustrup doesn't understand the point of proof of work, only people who don't are capable of characterizing it as a waste (when it is in fact the complete opposite)

a pro-liberal, anti-corruption system that uses energy to achieve those qualities is a waste? what sort of human being can say that?

hatshepsut93

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At this point "Bitcoin is wasting energy and is only used by criminals" is a common misconception, akin to "fish don't feel pain" or "Great Wall of China can be seen from space". Many of these prominent people who criticize Bitcoin have simply read some articles from mainstream media and formed their opinion from it. This just shows that even very smart people don't independently verify every single fact that they hear and instead trust other people that their information is correct.

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Quote from: blckhawk on November 13, 2019, 01:33:27 AM

A good read and informational since I had learned C++ is used in Bitcoin network, and I quite agree to his personal stance. Even I myself, if my work would be used to such illegal and negative things, would get disappointed. This is partly one of the reasons why KYC and regulation could improve the network. Illegal activities might lessen but also can't be totally eradicated since anonimity has always been there at the start.

There are many programs being built from C++ and not only in bitcoin mining. Some are being used by cyber hackers. I mean as a programming language, it just like a double-edged sword. Whether you use it for the betterment of mankind or for fraud, it depends on a person's purpose.

Of course, we may feel a little disappointed if someone uses it for illegal activities, but it's not the author's fault.

dothebeats

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C++ is the first programming language I encountered and studied thoroughly. It’s syntax usage might be messy and quite horrendous for today’s standards but it still serves its purpose and helps create tools and inventions for our society. While its creator might have a differing opinion regarding bitcoin mining compared to the rest of us, I still believe that he has the right to say those given that he’s versed in his field and has indirectly helped in creating bitcoin. It’s just that he has spoken on a rather rough way to describe what bitcoin does and hasn’t include the good it created nor inspired.

Lucius

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Another genius who thinks Bitcoin is destroying humanity by burning fossil fuels, and that Bitcoin is so anonymous that only criminals use it to hide their tracks. I guess the genius obviously considers Japan or maybe Germany a crime-fueled country because they have legalized the use of Bitcoin...

It has been argued so many times how much mining actually consumes electricity, and if 0.2% is such a big deal for all those who care about the environment, stop using your cars, smartphones, Internet, Tvs and move to caves.

"Let me say it this way. Bjarne Stroustrup, you have no idea what you're talking about"

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: Jet Cash on November 13, 2019, 12:46:17 AM

Fiat currencies were created by banking criminals, and it is the dominant currency used by virtuallt all criminals today. Bitcoin was created as an honest alternative for the use of honest people. Banksters don't like this, so they spread lies and misinformation about it so that they can create their own dishonest version in the future.

ok, but Bjarne Stroustrup is not a banker, and seemingly unrelated to banks

CryptoBry

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Quote from: Saint-loup on November 12, 2019, 07:37:50 AM

Stroustrup continued, “So, I’m very happy and proud of some things C++ is being used at and some other things I wish people wouldn’t do. Bitcoin mining is my favorite example. It uses as much energy as Switzerland and mostly serves criminals.”[/i]

The man is quite right with his statement that the use of something that he started is already beyond his own control. Likely so, just like Satoshi Nakamoto he could not interfere with anyone using the same tool for whatever purpose. The only thing is that he is quite biased when connecting Bitcoin to criminals. Maybe the man should know that most of the transactions by criminals are still using the fiat money and only a certain percentage are into cryptocurrency and when we say cryptocurrency it is not exclusively Bitcoin as there are far more other coins which are more private than my favorite BTC. As to the energy consumption, I agree with this concern and this should be posing a big challenge to people in the mining industry to come up with something that can reduce this electricity requirement but we should always remember that all industries are using power with an exemption, plus most of the mining activities are in areas where there is an excess of power and many are already into renewable energy and not directly competing with the usual power consumers.

blckhawk

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A good read and informational since I had learned C++ is used in Bitcoin network, and I quite agree to his personal stance. Even I myself, if my work would be used to such illegal and negative things, would get disappointed. This is partly one of the reasons why KYC and regulation could improve the network. Illegal activities might lessen but also can't be totally eradicated since anonimity has always been there at the start.

Jet Cash

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https://JetCash.com

Fiat currencies were created by banking criminals, and it is the dominant currency used by virtuallt all criminals today. Bitcoin was created as an honest alternative for the use of honest people. Banksters don't like this, so they spread lies and misinformation about it so that they can create their own dishonest version in the future.

pooya87

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Managing Director of Technology at Morgan Stanley that is basically pulling a new scam every couple of months and sometimes gets caught and has to pay million dollar fines, does not really get to talk about what and what not bitcoin is being used for!
bitcoin is just a currency, even if it is used for something illegal it still doesn't make bitcoin bad, but where he works is the roots of all evil. they take people's money and then scam them, that makes them bad!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Stanley#Controversies_and_lawsuits

Carlton Banks

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True or false:

Bitcoin is used for moral reasons
Bitcoin was created for ideological, moral reasons
Bjarne Stroustup is not an ethicist
Fiat currency is used by criminals
No moral code can stop Bitcoin, however it is judged

Ucy

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Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

Quote from: Saint-loup on November 12, 2019, 07:37:50 AM

“Let me say it this way. When you build the tool, you don’t know how it’s going to be used. You try to improve the tool looking at how it’s being used, but really, you have no control over how the thing is used.”

Stroustrup continued, “So, I’m very happy and proud of some things C++ is being used at and some other things I wish people wouldn’t do. Bitcoin mining is my favorite example. It uses as much energy as Switzerland and mostly serves criminals.”

https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-mining-and-crime-slammed-by-c-creator/

Another cool inventions that are being used by criminals: paper, pen, internet, phone, kitchen knife, etc. I think If we try to control all of them, that will probably lead to serious dictatorship, tyranny and lost of basic freedom.

Governments and every human on earth should probably be 100% transparent for the sake of peace. One cannot be totally transparent while the other is not. It is dangerous as long as human being and our planet are concerned.

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: Saint-loup on November 12, 2019, 07:37:50 AM

Stroustrup continued, “So, I’m very happy and proud of some things C++ is being used at and some other things I wish people wouldn’t do. Bitcoin mining is my favorite example. It uses as much energy as Switzerland and mostly serves criminals.”[/i]

There is no doubt that Bjarne Stroustrup is a brilliant developer but he might be brainwashed with all the negative aspects of bitcoin as he thinks that it is eating up a lot of energy and he thinks that only criminals are using it, he just did not know nor took any time to look what bitcoin is all about and he was listening to all the media negatives and hence i do not consider this as authentic review Wink

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hugeblack

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"We’re all complicated. We’re all a mixed bag Smart & stupid" I would like to quote this saying to a clever man who says stupid words.
Respecting him, he attacked Bitcoin as bank managers do. He attacked mining as a waste of time and decentralization as the root cause of crimes.
With the mention of banks, this man works at Morgan Stanley investment bank^[1], I think we have enough reason to understand why Bjarne described Bitcoin like that? Tongue

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[1] Bjarne Stroustrup - Morgan Stanley

Topic: Bjarne Stroustrup is disappointed that C++ is being used by BTC (Read 366 times)