As far as 2nd law of thermodynamics goes it only applies to classically behaving things.
When you get to quantum I think this law does not apply...
2nd law of thermodynamics hold macroscopically but it is definitely not the entire picture. I think the public is completely off the chart when they say "But wait! The laws of thermodynamics!"
Take, for example, quantum entanglement, according to this....
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/428670/entangled-particles-break-classical-law-of-thermodynamics-say-physicists/ entanglement breaks laws of thermodynamics...
Black holes are quantum entities.
For the sake of argument let's say that entropy is actually information itself, ("Hey, this egg is broken"). If its the case then black holes decrease entropy (also information) and convert it to a simple particle of gravity (graviton, Higgs, what have you). I think it is an established thing that the more stuff goes in the more pull a black hole has.
Topic: Black Holes and The Internet - page 3. (Read 3006 times)
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information = inverse of entropy
Are You sure? The universe increases in complexity over time. So the interpretable properties of universe that someone might call information also increases.See Shannon.
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the Universe is a closed system
I'm not so sure but it is likely. The scientists does not have a definite answer about such fundamental properties of our universe but we will see.What I think is important is to not mix models here. I know quantuum physicists have exotic models which exchange things from an Universe to another one, but I stay in a thermodynamic POV here
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There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
Both cases have the information preserved. jigsaw can be reassembled by examining trajectories of flying pieces. The hard drive will not be damaged by dropping on the floor. I got accident when rack collapsed and spare hard drives fell on hard floor from height of almost 3 meters. All drives tested OK. And even if the hard drive is damaged by dropping, the information is still there, only inaccessible. Of course the information can be destroyed by other means.
Altho I admit the dropping a HDD is a bad example, the very true relation between entropy and information needs to be understood. Information is a way to order things, entropy is the destruction of that order.
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information = inverse of entropy
Are You sure? The universe increases in complexity over time. So the interpretable properties of universe that someone might call information also increases.Quote
the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
True.Quote
the Universe is a closed system
I'm not so sure but it is likely. The scientists does not have a definite answer about such fundamental properties of our universe but we will see.Quote
There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
Both cases have the information preserved. jigsaw can be reassembled by examining trajectories of flying pieces. The hard drive will not be damaged by dropping on the floor. I got accident when rack collapsed and spare hard drives fell on hard floor from height of almost 3 meters. All drives tested OK. And even if the hard drive is damaged by dropping, the information is still there, only inaccessible. Of course the information can be destroyed by other means. 
There is a major fallacy within this whole argument.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
Information is a concept, the universe is made of objects.
It doesn't matter what you find appealing. Objects are no concept they exist.
Information is a property of an object, interpreted by our brains. The notion that objects consist of information is ludicrous, a typical fallacy perpetrated by those who follow esoteric teachings.
It might suit their purposes but in a scientific sense it is just plain wrong.
1) information = inverse of entropy
2) the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
3) the Universe is a closed system
4) There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
2) the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
3) the Universe is a closed system
4) There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
Are you sure about number 3?
tbh I am sure of none of these. But as far as thermodynamics are concerned, yes. And as of today, the future of the Universe is a cold place with entropy maximum and all information gone.
Maybe some place may be used as vaults to preserve some of it for some time ...
1) information = inverse of entropy
2) the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
3) the Universe is a closed system
4) There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
2) the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
3) the Universe is a closed system
4) There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
Are you sure about number 3?
1) information = inverse of entropy
2) the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
3) the Universe is a closed system
4) There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
2) the entropy of a closed system always increase with time (2nd law of thermodynamics)
3) the Universe is a closed system
4) There is not such law as of "information conservation" Information can be easely destroyed. Kick a jigsaw for example, or crash a harddisk by dropping it on the floor for that matter.
There is a major fallacy within this whole argument.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
Information is a concept, the universe is made of objects.
There is a major fallacy within this whole argument.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
Information is a concept, the universe is made of objects.
We probably need experts in this thread because such questions are what frontline scientists are working on now. Can someone bring attention of some real physics scientist here? Otherwise we will be forever in history as total retards talking about things that we don't understand properly. Yes, the information of our blundering will be kept in Universe!
Maybe I'm wrong. I suggest you read The Library of Babel, which is a short story by Jorge Luis Borges.
What do you mean? The change itself is new information of sort "Hey, this is what changed!"
And the storage used to record that something changed is now not available to store what it was storing before. Just because you attribute no significance to the prior stored information does not mean there was necessarily a net gain in information.
What do you mean? The change itself is new information of sort "Hey, this is what changed!"
There is a major fallacy within this whole argument.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
The Universe is information itself. When you store information somewhere, you haven't created new information. Instead, all you've done is change the information which already existed, plus change the existing information within your brain to interpret it as being meaningful to you.
No new quantity of information is created.
Nice, thanks for sharing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5UMkCQjgqw
Some creative work on what's to think of Black Holes. Oh and that work you mentioned deserves some special attention.
Some creative work on what's to think of Black Holes. Oh and that work you mentioned deserves some special attention.
Here is on of the the articles that got me thinking...
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/418192/gravity-emerges-from-quantum-information-say-physicists/
As far as the D-Wave PC goes, they do claim the machine they made is capable of quantum calculations.
I looked at the SDK they offer for practicing quantum programing. The included documents contain an example that has some similarities with Shor's algorithm (Consider it a test to identify if a machine can do quantum calculations ). The people behind D-Wave are pretty deep in this and I am pretty sure are knowledgeable. It is not another perpetum mobile scam.
The claim that D-Wave does not have a quantum computer usually comes from someone who does not know anything about QM.
I do not claim to know a lot about QM but from what I know D-Wave seems legit.
Usually my thoughts about QM Computer denial are on the lines of 'we also had a difficult time accepting classical computers and once we understood how they work they all of a sudden became 'real''.
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/418192/gravity-emerges-from-quantum-information-say-physicists/
As far as the D-Wave PC goes, they do claim the machine they made is capable of quantum calculations.
I looked at the SDK they offer for practicing quantum programing. The included documents contain an example that has some similarities with Shor's algorithm (Consider it a test to identify if a machine can do quantum calculations ). The people behind D-Wave are pretty deep in this and I am pretty sure are knowledgeable. It is not another perpetum mobile scam.
The claim that D-Wave does not have a quantum computer usually comes from someone who does not know anything about QM.
I do not claim to know a lot about QM but from what I know D-Wave seems legit.
Usually my thoughts about QM Computer denial are on the lines of 'we also had a difficult time accepting classical computers and once we understood how they work they all of a sudden became 'real''.
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What if we consider universe as a whole?
The information still needs something to hold it. There is finite amount of atoms and stuff in observable universe. The information still need something to retrieve and process it.Quote
Oh, yes, they are look up D-Wave.
Are they real quantum computers or some sort of analog computers with some of properties of quantum computers? I try to keep up with latest chips from Intel and AMD but not exotic quantum stuff.Quote
Let me remind you we've just discovered Higgs... Not sure how far back your modern physics knowledge goes.
I try to watch and read all available information from reputable scientific sources. I know about Higgs but they are different from gravitons that soviets proposed. I think the idea if gravitons was discarded long time ago.Quote
Well it does not end up in someone's asshole but it does end up in headlines and on the internet. And let me tell you it generates a hell of a buzz... Lol
This blown me away. Yes it generates a lot of information but also things that does not cause a mass to energy conversion create a lot of information. The presidential elections in USA for example. Both candidates have insignificant mass like all sockpuppets have but the process of choosing between two halves of same cookie creates a lot of information from thin air. 
Eyes are black holes that turn light into information.
Most subatomic particles have mass. Photons can be used for transmitting information, not storing it. You cannot have a bottle with light. (well I have few bottles of light beer still unopened but this is not the case, they contain a loss of information if I pass out) You still need some structure that have mass to support the storage and retrieval of information.
Good one!Quote
But there is some fundamental laws of physics that prevent anyone to accumulate infinite amount of information and some scientists are perfectly clear about this.
The universe contains infinite amount of info. Otherwise infinite loops would be impossible and you could not make a fact out of a fact.Quote
Quantum computers are not here and none knows when they will be available on newegg.com
Oh, yes, they are look up D-Wave.Quote
Do gravitons exist? It is some time I have not updated my knowledge on quantum physics but I'm certain that this is not true at all.
Let me remind you we've just discovered Higgs... Not sure how far back your modern physics knowledge goes.Quote
The black holes can destroy the information if they like. I don't care. For example tiny part of mass of nuclear material in atomic bomb is converted to pure energy when the nuke explodes. This does not mean that part of that "destroyed" mass miraculously shows up in someones arsehole. The black holes in far reaches of galaxy really are not connected to the internet!
Well it does not end up in someone's asshole but it does end up in headlines and on the internet. And let me tell you it can generates a hell of a buzz... lol... There is probably more info on WW2 because of Hiroshima than on any other war.Jump to: