BlackRock's Bold Move: $1.5 Billion Bet on Bitcoin!

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Quote from: betswift on November 05, 2024, 06:58:44 AM

Quote from: X-ray on November 02, 2024, 09:09:12 PM

Quote from: Poker Player on November 02, 2024, 04:46:07 AM

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Saylor has repeated ad nauseam that he will never sell his bitcoin, referring to MSTR, other than that he also personally holds them and will not sell them. But it is not only that, he has based the value of his company on never selling and never stop accumulating, so if he were to sell (leaving aside a small sale at the end of the year for tax purposes, as you mention) it would automatically mean a drastic drop in the share, and he is not going to stick a thread in his foot.

At the moment the plan is to get $42B the next 3 years to keep buying more bitcoin.

that sounds like a really ridiculous strategy despite the good notion of keep holding it and not selling it at all.
wonder what's his plan after accumulating that big amount of BTC to be honest, will he create some sort of services or what.

because in my opinion, the money need to be cashed out at some point to pay up the loan, which is in this case, if he's so sure he won't sell his BTC, he probably needs a strategy to profit big time from leveraging their BTC holdings.

Who would be able to tell when his BTC is moved, or there are his address at place to watch and learn how it's done? Grin

Are you talking about MSTRs BTC, or what MS holds personally? For his personal BTC, unless you know his wallet addresses, you won't know what he moves. As for MSTR, is a public and audited company, so needs to comply with reporting obligations, including material and price-sensitive disclosures.

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Quote from: X-ray on November 02, 2024, 09:09:12 PM

Quote from: Poker Player on November 02, 2024, 04:46:07 AM

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Saylor has repeated ad nauseam that he will never sell his bitcoin, referring to MSTR, other than that he also personally holds them and will not sell them. But it is not only that, he has based the value of his company on never selling and never stop accumulating, so if he were to sell (leaving aside a small sale at the end of the year for tax purposes, as you mention) it would automatically mean a drastic drop in the share, and he is not going to stick a thread in his foot.

At the moment the plan is to get $42B the next 3 years to keep buying more bitcoin.

that sounds like a really ridiculous strategy despite the good notion of keep holding it and not selling it at all.
wonder what's his plan after accumulating that big amount of BTC to be honest, will he create some sort of services or what.

because in my opinion, the money need to be cashed out at some point to pay up the loan, which is in this case, if he's so sure he won't sell his BTC, he probably needs a strategy to profit big time from leveraging their BTC holdings.

Who would be able to tell when his BTC is moved, or there are his address at place to watch and learn how it's done? Grin

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Quote from: icalical on November 05, 2024, 06:22:05 AM

Early days for BlackRock's ETF definitely saw big inflows, a good start that promise institutions could get into it. And yet, it rapidly lost its early lead to Grayscale despite BlackRock being known for strong management and influence. While it's true that interest from BlackRock could inspire more institutions to consider Bitcoin, but it is still early days, with competition already fierce.

With any luck, the Bitcoin ETFs would make crypto more accessible but also come with limits. The thing is, ETFs tend to centralize Bitcoin custody, taking away from the decentralized nature many investors love in crypto. That could mean increased adoption with BlackRock's involvement but might turn off a number of hardcore crypto enthusiasts who want their crypto solutions to be decentralized.

If they would be turned off from BTC even with regulations for ETFs and what not - that would be their loss, realistically Grin

It's not like ETFs would be get rid of the moment an institution gets enough of them.

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Early days for BlackRock's ETF definitely saw big inflows, a good start that promise institutions could get into it. And yet, it rapidly lost its early lead to Grayscale despite BlackRock being known for strong management and influence. While it's true that interest from BlackRock could inspire more institutions to consider Bitcoin, but it is still early days, with competition already fierce.

With any luck, the Bitcoin ETFs would make crypto more accessible but also come with limits. The thing is, ETFs tend to centralize Bitcoin custody, taking away from the decentralized nature many investors love in crypto. That could mean increased adoption with BlackRock's involvement but might turn off a number of hardcore crypto enthusiasts who want their crypto solutions to be decentralized.

AsiaHODL

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Quote from: X-ray on November 02, 2024, 09:09:12 PM

Quote from: Poker Player on November 02, 2024, 04:46:07 AM

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Saylor has repeated ad nauseam that he will never sell his bitcoin, referring to MSTR, other than that he also personally holds them and will not sell them. But it is not only that, he has based the value of his company on never selling and never stop accumulating, so if he were to sell (leaving aside a small sale at the end of the year for tax purposes, as you mention) it would automatically mean a drastic drop in the share, and he is not going to stick a thread in his foot.

At the moment the plan is to get $42B the next 3 years to keep buying more bitcoin.

that sounds like a really ridiculous strategy despite the good notion of keep holding it and not selling it at all.
wonder what's his plan after accumulating that big amount of BTC to be honest, will he create some sort of services or what.

because in my opinion, the money need to be cashed out at some point to pay up the loan, which is in this case, if he's so sure he won't sell his BTC, he probably needs a strategy to profit big time from leveraging their BTC holdings.

If you are thinking of BTC as an asset to be "cashed out" into fiat, then you really still don't truly "get it". As for what MSTR, or indeed almost any listed company with borrowings does, is to continue to recycle loans. Some companies don't have debt, or slowly repay it, but financial institutions (and MSTR is no different), make their money leveraging debt into investments which provide a higher return than the cost of that debt.

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Quote from: Poker Player on November 02, 2024, 04:46:07 AM

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Saylor has repeated ad nauseam that he will never sell his bitcoin, referring to MSTR, other than that he also personally holds them and will not sell them. But it is not only that, he has based the value of his company on never selling and never stop accumulating, so if he were to sell (leaving aside a small sale at the end of the year for tax purposes, as you mention) it would automatically mean a drastic drop in the share, and he is not going to stick a thread in his foot.

At the moment the plan is to get $42B the next 3 years to keep buying more bitcoin.

that sounds like a really ridiculous strategy despite the good notion of keep holding it and not selling it at all.
wonder what's his plan after accumulating that big amount of BTC to be honest, will he create some sort of services or what.

because in my opinion, the money need to be cashed out at some point to pay up the loan, which is in this case, if he's so sure he won't sell his BTC, he probably needs a strategy to profit big time from leveraging their BTC holdings.

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Quote from: Poker Player on November 02, 2024, 04:46:07 AM

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Saylor has repeated ad nauseam that he will never sell his bitcoin, referring to MSTR, other than that he also personally holds them and will not sell them. But it is not only that, he has based the value of his company on never selling and never stop accumulating, so if he were to sell (leaving aside a small sale at the end of the year for tax purposes, as you mention) it would automatically mean a drastic drop in the share, and he is not going to stick a thread in his foot.

At the moment the plan is to get $42B the next 3 years to keep buying more bitcoin.

I see what you are saying and you are correct. Michael Saylor has made it clear that he will not sell his Bitcoin both personally and through his company MicroStrategy. His plan is to keep buying and holding Bitcoin and this approach is key to his company value. Saylor past actions and public statements show he is serious about this. If he changes his plan it could harm his company stock. He plans to invest $42 billion in Bitcoin over next three years which shows his commitment. Your observation highlights how important it is for Saylor to stick to his long term Bitcoin strategy both for his company success and his own investments.

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Quote from: ? on October 31, 2024, 07:29:06 AM

BlackRock buying $1.5 billion in Bitcoin in just two days for its ETF is a real turning point for the crypto world! I think it shows that institutional investors are really starting to believe in Bitcoin as a serious asset. You could even say that it could encourage other big companies to do the same, which could increase demand and, consequently, the price of Bitcoin. In addition, with a Bitcoin ETF, it makes investing more accessible for those who don't want to complicate their lives with the direct purchase of crypto. Personally, I found it to be a good opportunity, even if the market can sometimes be unpredictable.
What do you think?
Do you think other companies will follow suit?

I think that Blackrock is a serious company owned by a serious person with a serious mindset of wealth accumulation. My fear however is in regards to what happens when a huge Bitcoin investor like Blackrock decides to sell off all its crypto currency holdings?
What will happen to the market when these large institutional holders decide to liquidate their assets or diversify their portfolio?

Companies with large pockets and even individuals that have same large pockets can buy via Bitcoin ETF and that's why it was launched earlier this year preceding the halving event that occured. Bitcoin investment may soon become so expensive that common investors may find it hard to invest unless they follow a strict investment plan like DCA strategy to achieve their goals and aim.

AsiaHODL

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Quote from: avp2306 on November 01, 2024, 07:20:47 AM

Actually I'm amaze with the action they do since this shows that they really have huge confidence that bitcoin would perform more better in future.

But what's really bothering there is if they accumulate a lot more volume then there's really huge chance that in future also they could able to manipulate the price of bitcoin since their company might have more bigger holdings compare to other institutions. So hopefully we see positive things to happen more for bitcoin since if Blackrock will start to dump their bitcoin then maybe this will create a huge damage on the market.

To be more accurate, what they have is huge confidence that there will be ETF demand for BTC (not actually that BTC will perform well). Having said that, yes they have also said they have a strong belief in the future performance of BTC. But again, remember, they don't make money from BTC rising, as they only hold the BTC of others as ETF managers.

I challenge you to tell me how could they could possibly manipulate BTC price with their ETF? If you understand how ETF's work and the SEC law they need to comply with, you would realize that this is not possible.

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Quote from: MusaMohamed on October 31, 2024, 10:03:01 PM

Same with Micro Strategy, as institutional investor, they have big capital to buy and they're ready to use leverages for buying bitcoins. It's dangerous double-edged investment strategy and even Michael Saylor said "Bitcoin is the end game", it doesn't mean Micro Strategy will never sell their bitcoins. It's very naive for thinking like this because no investor will hold their investment position forever.

We don't know when they will sell bitcoin but they will have selling times in future. In fact Micro Strategy did sold bitcoin 1 time, but it is like their action for tax report with sale and purchase on a same day 28 December 2022 (sold 704 BTC and bought 810 BTC.)

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With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Saylor has repeated ad nauseam that he will never sell his bitcoin, referring to MSTR, other than that he also personally holds them and will not sell them. But it is not only that, he has based the value of his company on never selling and never stop accumulating, so if he were to sell (leaving aside a small sale at the end of the year for tax purposes, as you mention) it would automatically mean a drastic drop in the share, and he is not going to stick a thread in his foot.

At the moment the plan is to get $42B the next 3 years to keep buying more bitcoin.

AsiaHODL

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Quote from: fuguebtc on October 31, 2024, 10:27:16 AM

You are right about them dumping bitcoin at any time but in the long run, I think this will do more good than harm because without the involvement of large institutions, it will take longer for bitcoin to become globally popular.

Actually no, he's not right about that. Blackrock cannot simply dump Bitcoin. Their ETF mandate requires them to hold BTC 1:1 to match investor demand. The only "dump" that could occur, is if their ETF investors collectively decide to sell (and such selling is not matched by ETF buyers).

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Quote from: PrivacyG on October 31, 2024, 09:48:27 PM

I can not be too happy about the BlackRock investment. It is fun and games until they start crashing the Market. Think WHY BlackRock is purchasing so much, and then think WHY would they not sell the same bulk when they have enough Profit. Which to a typical Stock Investor, I would have to guess is much lower than the gains Bitcoin offers over the course of years.

Dude - do you understand, Blackrock is not buying BTC for themselves as an investment. They are buying it to meet investor demand on the ETF. Blackrock does not profit or lose fro BTC's movements. They only make money for management fees of BTC under management in the ETF.

Its not just you. Many people here appear to be entirely uneducated on how an ETF works and what Blackrock's role in this is.

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Quote from: BitcoinBarrel on October 31, 2024, 08:24:27 AM

How wonderful all these companies, universities, politicians and so-called financial experts that a few years ago were trash-talking crypto-currency are now investing in it.

Bunch of hypocrites if you ask me.

What happens with them is just that when they are not a major beneficiary of it, they will always criticise it; in most times too, it's based on when they don't understand what they are criticising; they tend to always speak against it until they see something that will open their eye on it.

Even as they are major holders through their ETF, they can't still say the opposite, just that the only thing they will say is that they themselves don't use it for money laundry.

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Quote from: FortuneFollower on November 01, 2024, 05:20:42 AM

Yeah, however, the more companies and big entities, sorta, interfere in BTC, the more regulations and interest everybody has in it.
The question is, to what extent it will be going in the future? And would the pros of it outweigh the cons.

Maybe that will still happen in the future as many more will see the Bitcoin popularity and can see the benefits of investing in Bitcoin. They will want to make a big profit from Bitcoin especially for a big companies and others and they will trying to buy as many Bitcoins as they can. The pros may be outweigh the cons so that will makes people wants to allocating more money in investing in Bitcoin.

Quote from: Iranus on November 01, 2024, 07:10:10 AM

It's hard to understand why people get angry when institutions invest in bitcoin and are willing to criticize them if they dump large amounts on the market. People need to remember that bitcoin is being treated as a financial market and that is how financial markets work.

I bet if any of us had as much money as Backrock or Microstrategy, we would be doing what they are doing. The fact that we express worry or fear only shows that we are jealous of them, we are afraid of not making a big profit on our investment, not that we are worried about the future of bitcoin.

Maybe those people feels that they don't gets the chance to invests in Bitcoin because the big companies takes their part and invest in a big money. Those people should not thinks like that because they can still invests in Bitcoin with the money they have.

Yes, I am sure we will doing the same thing as them because we know how potentially of the profits that Bitcoin can gives to us. We don't have to jealous or worry with them because we already know Bitcoin before they know and we gets the benefits from a long time ago. But for those who are beginner, they must convince themselves before they decide to invests in Bitcoin that Bitcoin is the best investment for them. They don't have to worry with anything that the big companies do but must focus with their investment.

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Quote from: nelson4lov on November 01, 2024, 04:38:10 PM

Quote from: LogitechMouse on October 31, 2024, 08:33:20 PM

Is the term "manipulation" still applying with Bitcoin?
In 2017, we've seen lots of market manipulation because at that time, the total market cap of cryptocurrency is much lower than that of it is today. Now it's harder to manipulate the crypto market, and I don't see these companies having the power to manipulate the market.

It still applies but the likelyhood is getting thinner and thinner as the price and marketcap grows. We already saw some examples of this earlier in the year. The most significant being the German Government Bitcoin sell offs. They knew the price would take a hit if they publicly announce it and put fear in the hearts of many Bitcoiners and traders. Blackrock and any of the dominant players in Bitcoin right now might backtrack and you'd see sell-offs that would follow.

Bitcoin manipulation doesn't have to be with money or a lot of money, they can manipulate with news, Fud...As we can easily see the news about Mt.gox, they have been using it to manipulate the market for more than 10 years and it is still effective until now. Market manipulation is sometimes not as complicated as we think, just a few unverified news is enough to make the market panic.

Quote from: nelson4lov on November 01, 2024, 04:38:10 PM

Quote from: LogitechMouse on October 31, 2024, 08:33:20 PM

They can sell whatever they want and since they have the power, they can do it, but as long as there will be buyers then everything is good... or is it? Cheesy

Yes, definitely. More buyers means more liquidity to absorb the future potential sell pressure. But we don't really need any one org or firm to hold too much of the supply. That alone would spark fear and of course, fud.

What we should be afraid of is the lack of liquidity in the market, not institutions selling bitcoin, it is normal for them to take profits because they need profits like us. If the market always has enough liquidity no matter how much bitcoin they sell then there is nothing to worry about, but if the market is not liquid enough then that would be a worrying sign.

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Quote from: LogitechMouse on October 31, 2024, 08:33:20 PM

Is the term "manipulation" still applying with Bitcoin?
In 2017, we've seen lots of market manipulation because at that time, the total market cap of cryptocurrency is much lower than that of it is today. Now it's harder to manipulate the crypto market, and I don't see these companies having the power to manipulate the market.

It still applies but the likelyhood is getting thinner and thinner as the price and marketcap grows. We already saw some examples of this earlier in the year. The most significant being the German Government Bitcoin sell offs. They knew the price would take a hit if they publicly announce it and put fear in the hearts of many Bitcoiners and traders. Blackrock and any of the dominant players in Bitcoin right now might backtrack and you'd see sell-offs that would follow.

Quote from: LogitechMouse on October 31, 2024, 08:33:20 PM

They can sell whatever they want and since they have the power, they can do it, but as long as there will be buyers then everything is good... or is it? Cheesy

Yes, definitely. More buyers means more liquidity to absorb the future potential sell pressure. But we don't really need any one org or firm to hold too much of the supply. That alone would spark fear and of course, fud.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on November 01, 2024, 11:29:48 AM

Do they have great faith in bitcoin or are they trying to make bitcoin their own game because like you said they can manipulate the price of bitcoin if they want? It's really hard to know what they're planning with bitcoin when they buy such a large amount.

Overall, Blackrock's massive acquisition of bitcoin has its pros and cons, and it's understandable that people are concerned. But at the end of the day, there's nothing we can do to stop them from buying bitcoin. For example, today the price of bitcoin suddenly dropped to $68k and some ETFs like ARK, Fidelity or Bitwise sold but Blackrock continued to buy a large amount of bitcoin. Today alone, they continue to spend over $300 million buying bitcoin and they don't seem to care about the price of bitcoin or what the market is doing. Should we be happy or sad?

It can be both because there is also no sense of buying it if you can't benefit on it. Though, I remember that even a shitcoin can also be manipulated. It only needs some hype but at least in Bitcoin, if they fail to manipulate it, they still can earn.

BTC is truly hard to manipulate due to its less supply and a lot of people are holding their coins tightly because they also believe on its potential and they already know that the coin has a lot of value due to its other features and usefulness. Scaring them or spreading a FUD is no use on stopping them. They are not kids anymore but I think the only best way is if the government bans BTC on their country. A lot of innocent people are going to get affected by it though.

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Quote from: avp2306 on November 01, 2024, 07:20:47 AM

Actually I'm amaze with the action they do since this shows that they really have huge confidence that bitcoin would perform more better in future.

But what's really bothering there is if they accumulate a lot more volume then there's really huge chance that in future also they could able to manipulate the price of bitcoin since their company might have more bigger holdings compare to other institutions. So hopefully we see positive things to happen more for bitcoin since if Blackrock will start to dump their bitcoin then maybe this will create a huge damage on the market.

Do they have great faith in bitcoin or are they trying to make bitcoin their own game because like you said they can manipulate the price of bitcoin if they want? It's really hard to know what they're planning with bitcoin when they buy such a large amount.

Overall, Blackrock's massive acquisition of bitcoin has its pros and cons, and it's understandable that people are concerned. But at the end of the day, there's nothing we can do to stop them from buying bitcoin. For example, today the price of bitcoin suddenly dropped to $68k and some ETFs like ARK, Fidelity or Bitwise sold but Blackrock continued to buy a large amount of bitcoin. Today alone, they continue to spend over $300 million buying bitcoin and they don't seem to care about the price of bitcoin or what the market is doing. Should we be happy or sad?

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Quote from: avp2306 on November 01, 2024, 07:20:47 AM

Quote from: ? on October 31, 2024, 07:29:06 AM

BlackRock buying $1.5 billion in Bitcoin in just two days for its ETF is a real turning point for the crypto world! I think it shows that institutional investors are really starting to believe in Bitcoin as a serious asset. You could even say that it could encourage other big companies to do the same, which could increase demand and, consequently, the price of Bitcoin. In addition, with a Bitcoin ETF, it makes investing more accessible for those who don't want to complicate their lives with the direct purchase of crypto. Personally, I found it to be a good opportunity, even if the market can sometimes be unpredictable.
What do you think?
Do you think other companies will follow suit?

Actually I'm amaze with the action they do since this shows that they really have huge confidence that bitcoin would perform more better in future.

But what's really bothering there is if they accumulate a lot more volume then there's really huge chance that in future also they could able to manipulate the price of bitcoin since their company might have more bigger holdings compare to other institutions. So hopefully we see positive things to happen more for bitcoin since if Blackrock will start to dump their bitcoin then maybe this will create a huge damage on the market.

I do think that even if they would try to do it - they wouldn't be able to do it fast - only slowly, step by step.
However, I do think that the damage may be done nevertheless.
Double-edged sword of sorts, this whole situation, that is.

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Quote from: ? on October 31, 2024, 07:29:06 AM

BlackRock buying $1.5 billion in Bitcoin in just two days for its ETF is a real turning point for the crypto world! I think it shows that institutional investors are really starting to believe in Bitcoin as a serious asset. You could even say that it could encourage other big companies to do the same, which could increase demand and, consequently, the price of Bitcoin. In addition, with a Bitcoin ETF, it makes investing more accessible for those who don't want to complicate their lives with the direct purchase of crypto. Personally, I found it to be a good opportunity, even if the market can sometimes be unpredictable.
What do you think?
Do you think other companies will follow suit?

Actually I'm amaze with the action they do since this shows that they really have huge confidence that bitcoin would perform more better in future.

But what's really bothering there is if they accumulate a lot more volume then there's really huge chance that in future also they could able to manipulate the price of bitcoin since their company might have more bigger holdings compare to other institutions. So hopefully we see positive things to happen more for bitcoin since if Blackrock will start to dump their bitcoin then maybe this will create a huge damage on the market.

Topic: BlackRock's Bold Move: $1.5 Billion Bet on Bitcoin! (Read 407 times)