Topic: Block explorers oligopoly. (Read 836 times)

Setting up bitcoind & mynode/Esplora/iquidus (these block explorer names can be a PITA to remember sometimes) on Virtualbox and then copying the VDI file somewhere to use as a template later should also function as a sort of image, no?

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Wouldn't Docker image more efficient in this case? ...

Setting up bitcoind & mynode/Esplora/iquidus (these block explorer names can be a PITA to remember sometimes) on Virtualbox and then copying the VDI file somewhere to use as a template later should also function as a sort of image, no?

Still looking for the explorer in a box that I mentioned above. I know I downloaded it and ran it. No idea where I put the image or if I even saved it or if it was a VHD / VHDX / VDI or some other format.
Being a data hoarder can be a pain at times.

Really? I usually found it's turned off by default. Additionally on Windows, you might have problem with Hyper-V (if you use VirtualBox.

Also know a bit how to secure your server.

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But I wouldn't run a block explorer in a VM in the first place, you lose the opportunity to utilize hyperthreading and all those extra threads the explorer could've used.

Really? I usually found it's turned off by default. Additionally on Windows, you might have problem with Hyper-V (if you use VirtualBox.

I've been curious about running block explorers for a while and haven't really looked into it. I hope this is as easy as you say it is. Do you know if I can host this publicly (that's my long-term goal).

If you want to run a block explorer but don't want to get into setting up a database or learning how, there are some "nodes in a box" out there that have them.
All you need is some bandwidth, the available storage space and a computer that can run a base VM and you can install some of them. Others work on a RPi

https://www.mynodebtc.com/ is one of the more popular ones.

-Dave

Since i've tried myNode in past, you still need to learn to setting up something (although it's easier). Few examples (if you use myNode on VM),
1. Enable CPU virtualization on BIOS.
2. Configure VirtualBox to connect myNode with your USB external HDD/SSD.
3. Other optional stuff which mentioned on guide page (https://www.mynodebtc.com/guides).

If you want to run a block explorer but don't want to get into setting up a database or learning how, there are some "nodes in a box" out there that have them.
All you need is some bandwidth, the available storage space and a computer that can run a base VM and you can install some of them. Others work on a RPi

https://www.mynodebtc.com/ is one of the more popular ones.

-Dave

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scantxoutset scans the utxo set to match a certain output descriptor. Pruned nodes don't have all the block data, but they have a full UTXO set that's precisely how pruned nodes work.

Are there small blockexplorers that you guys know or use?

Do you think is there a room for a new block explorer?

Since a pruned node does not have all transactions in the block chain, only those limited to what the pruned node stores, it cannot show you any long term history and will certainly return nothing for any confirmed transactions older than the amount pruned.

scantxoutset

You can run a pruned node on your machine locally and scan for UTXO's for ANY address (doesn't have to be imported to your wallet) by using the scantxoutset command. It takes a few minutes, but not nearly as long as a rescan. Doesn't take up a ton of space, and better than using a blockexplorer.

To query one address: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"}]'
Or for multiple addresses: scantxoutset start '[{"desc":"addr(1SomeAddress)"},{"desc":"addr(1AnotherAddressToCheck)"}]'

The ones that appear on the public ChipMixer spreadsheet are yours . Anyone could follow the movement of those coins (or get a chain analysis company to do it) until you mix them, do a CoinJoin, or send them to an exchange where you could exchange them for a different coin and withdraw them. I know that's not what you meant, just saying.

Sure, all the transactions are available on the public blockchain... but can you tell which ones are mine?

Or does the community want to admit that running a non-mining node holds zero value for the bitcoin network,
because they can't have it both ways,
either running a non-mining bitcoin node is valuable to the network and deserves payment
or
running a non-mining bitcoin node is worthless to the network and does not deserve any compensation.

So which is it?

The fact that you're using Coinbase pretty much means that your privacy is already compromised. You don't need a block explorer if they're not concerned about transactions that doesn't involve them.

Even if you do, then I can't fathom why using Tor isn't an option. If you are able to search each addresses individually with different Tor routing, then there isn't an issue right?

You're picking at one of the least significant issues out there. The node count is fairly high, even if you only count listening nodes. Why should nodes be compensated? You're running a node and the benefits lies primarily on the user using it, the positive externality is small if you consider the number of nodes out there right now.

By having to pay the thousands of nodes something, you're either making Bitcoin more expensive or Bitcoin to be less secure. What 'little' code update do you propose?

Have you ever considered that money doesn't grow on trees?

I completely understand the decision not to make the network pay full nodes because the users are doing nothing besides pressing a run button. It's almost like starting a miner on your computer and steadily earn pennies.

The node is doing all the verification work not the humans running it. And a node is just a piece of software, do you really think it makes sense for people (who otherwise do nothing) to get paid for something a piece of software is doing?

There is value in paying pennies to captcha workers or mechanical turk workers but the economic model is you gotta do work somehow to earn money.

Kind of makes you wonder, Bitcoin Devs always saying how important it is to run a non-mining Bitcoin node,
but they don't even consider it worth enough to funnel .00000001% of the bitcoin rewards to them.
One little code update is all it would take and they have more non-mining nodes than they could handle.

I suggest you use Coinbase sometime, sending and receiving automatically gives you a link to a block explorer so you can monitor the transactions. Anyone with any sense always verify the block explorer transaction matches theirs.
Because users do have to have an final arbiter in transaction disputes, and the block explorers are that arbiter.

Exactly and their is no incentive for me to use my money and resources to give them a free node. 

Kind of makes you wonder, Bitcoin Devs always saying how important it is to run a non-mining Bitcoin node,
but they don't even consider it worth enough to funnel .00000001% of the bitcoin rewards to them.
One little code update is all it would take and they have more non-mining nodes than they could handle.

I expect instant centralization of nodes. Let me spin up a million of them in the cloud to grab that quarter million bucks per day.

No but the IRS can by cross-linking data of any address you ever sent or received from.

Ever use your Email with a bitcoin transfer, they got you

There is no incentive for miners to accept such change and lower their own profit.

Kind of makes you wonder, Bitcoin Devs always saying how important it is to run a non-mining Bitcoin node,
but they don't even consider it worth enough to funnel .00000001% of the bitcoin rewards to them.
One little code update is all it would take and they have more non-mining nodes than they could handle.

That is a weird conclusion you are making here! Just because some users are not running their own full node it doesn't mean they have to use block explorers. They all have some sort of wallet which they can use to check their transactions.
By the way it is not "majority" of users, most users are one time buyers who stay away from day trading and exchanges. If it were any other way and majority were indeed keeping their bitcoins on exchanges then we would have had a much more packed order books instead this thin one!

The majority of users , especially those that use exchange as their main wallet, don't run nodes. So they will be using block explorers

No but the IRS can by cross-linking data of any address you ever sent or received from.
Ever use your Email with a bitcoin transfer, they got you, ever ordered a package or service they got you.
Ever use a Major Exchange, they got you.
Which is why I would never think anything on a public blockchain is private.

Sure, all the transactions are available on the public blockchain... but can you tell which ones are mine?

In the real world, if you want me to run a node, you would have to Pay me to do so.
Bitcoin Devs and miners are cheap and don't pay node operators.

You're killing me with the privacy nonsense, 

You do realize Bitcoin is a PUBLIC BLOCKCHAIN all transactions available for anyone to see.

FYI:
I run a boatload of nodes, all Proof of Stake, because I get paid.
Never waste time or money running a non-paying bitcoin node.
However many of the Block Explorers sell ad time, so they found a way to earn, even thru the cheap bitcoin devs and miners won't pay.

If I wanted privacy, I use Cash.

FYI:
I run a boatload of nodes, all Proof of Stake, because I get paid.
Never waste time or money running a non-paying bitcoin node.
However many of the Block Explorers sell ad time, so they found a way to earn, even thru the cheap bitcoin devs and miners won't pay.

Kind of makes you wonder, Bitcoin Devs always saying how important it is to run a non-mining Bitcoin node,
but they don't even consider it worth enough to funnel .00000001% of the bitcoin rewards to them.
One little code update is all it would take and they have more non-mining nodes than they could handle.

How much do you value your privacy and the ability to operate on the Bitcoin network without leaking your information to "random" servers/third parties?

If the "cost" of running a node, which is actually pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things, is too much for you, then I'd say that you don't value your privacy very much... otherwise you would simply write that minimal cost off as the cost of improving your privacy (along with some of the other benefits of running a full node)

In the real world, if you want me to run a node, you would have to Pay me to do so.
Bitcoin Devs and miners are cheap and don't pay node operators.

No one should be using blockexplorers: Using them trashes your privacy by leaking addresses you're interested to to third parties.

Your wallet should be providing all the monitoring of your own addresses that you need.

The blockstream block explorer is open source, so if you must use one-- you can run it yourself. ... if you can manage the resources.  Blockexplorers are fundamentally less scalable than Bitcoin is, so they're pretty much always going to end up centralized in practice.  This is another reason that its important to not use them.

I wonder what's the argument against making txindex=1 default in future versions of Core, to facilitate running block explorer software without doing another rescan (it gets merged with the IBD)?

And to be honest, it's just out of sheer laziness... my node is txindex=1... so I could look them up relatively easily, I just prefer to use the block explorers because they have some "nice" features that usually make it "easy" (like linking to previous and/or next UTXOs/Transactions etc)

I should really just run one of the open source explorers and use that.

I know that, but I was talking about diagrams that look much more like bitcoin explorers as you can see in picture above.

...on the block explorers people can check huge amount of addresses and tx ID that are not theirs (at least that's what I do).

~Vitalik Buterin~

No one should be using blockexplorers: Using them trashes your privacy by leaking addresses you're interested to to third parties.

Your wallet should be providing all the monitoring of your own addresses that you need.

Don't you already have your own website bitcoindata.science for tracking and checking balance on addresses you want?  

Don't you already have your own website bitcoindata.science for tracking and checking balance on addresses you want? 

It is available from console, just there is no GUI for that. You can always click on your transaction, copy its ID, and then do "gettransaction " and later "decoderawtransaction " to see all inputs and outputs.

Certainly, but the wallet is not always accessible and I may need to know if the transaction happened now or not... For example, I may be doing something out of my house and I need to know if someone paid me or not, while my wallet is at home.

It would be interesting to see something similar in BitcoinCore or Electrum wallets.

Making a watch-only wallet in my phone would solve this... but am I not leaking addresses that I watch to my lightweight client just the same way i would leak to a block explorer?

Personally, I don't think the "elites" are as coordinated as well as Vitalik thinks they are... otherwise we wouldn't have ended up with BCH, BSV, BTG, BTCD and all the other forks and "competing" chains.

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Block explores links are often used as a proof of transfer. When I transfer BTC to someone I always share a block explorer transaction link.

Making a watch-only wallet in my phone would solve this... but am I not leaking addresses that I watch to my lightweight client just the same way i would leak to a block explorer?

The smallest block explorer I can think of is you own full node. The main problem is that exploring for example UTXO database is not that easy as it should be. There are many features hidden under console and not implemented in graphical interface, but it is definitely possible to connect with your node via RPC and get all data you need. Reading binary files is another thing, but on running node it is a bit dangerous, but there is no other way if something is not yet implemented.
-snip-
Every full node can be turned into a new block explorer, even if it is in pruning mode, there is still a lot of useful information.

Making a watch-only wallet in my phone would solve this... but am I not leaking addresses that I watch to my lightweight client just the same way i would leak to a block explorer?

Making a watch-only wallet in my phone would solve this... but am I not leaking addresses that I watch to my lightweight client just the same way i would leak to a block explorer?

Your wallet should be providing all the monitoring of your own addresses that you need.

Are there small blockexplorers that you guys know or use?

Do you think is there a room for a new block explorer?

Do you think it is important to have more block explorers?

It's crucial for blockchain decentralization for regular users to be able to run a node
At 2:35 AM, you receive an emergency call from your partner on the opposite side of the world who helps run your mining pool (or it could be a staking pool). Since about 14 minutes ago, your partner tells you, your pool and a few others split off from the chain which still carries 79% of the network. According to your node, the majority chain's blocks are invalid. There's a balance error: the key block appeared to erroneously assign 4.5 million extra coins to an unknown address.

...

By the morning, arguments on Twitter, and on the one community forum that was not censoring the discussion, discussions are everywhere. But by then a significant part of the 4.5 million coins had been converted on-chain to other assets, and billions of dollars of defi transactions had taken place. 79% of the consensus nodes, and all the major block explorers and endpoints for light wallets, were following this new chain. Perhaps the new dev fund will fund some development, or perhaps it will just all be embezzled by the leading pools and exchanges and their cronies. But regardless of how it turns out, the fund is for all intents and purposes a fait accompli, and regular users have no way to fight back.

Can this happen on your blockchain? The elites of your blockchain community, including pools, block explorers and hosted nodes, are probably quite well-coordinated; quite likely they're all in the same telegram channels and wechat groups. If they really want to organize a sudden change to the protocol rules to further their own interests, then they probably can.