Topic: Blockchain Analytics is More of an Art Than Science - page 2. (Read 1368 times)

Just lol. So your solution for corrupt police or a court system which assumes people are guilty on no evidence, is not to, you know, weed out the corruption or even enforce one of the oldest and most basic human rights of presumption of innocence? Your solution is more surveillance. So we all need to be surveilled at all times to protect us from the malicious state. That's the most insane logic I've heard yet.

That's the first thing we agree on. Good thing that mixers and coinjoins exist.

I'm glad that you understand the importance of evidence . What happens in your country is that you can't prove you are innocent . That's exactly what these cops are taking advantage of . It's your word against them .
Now imagine if these cops were wearing cameras . Imagine if there was a standard procedure that 2 cops had to search a car on opposite sides and film each other any moment so that no one of them could "plant" anything . Imagine if surveillance cameras existed in the place where traffic stops taking place so cops would know that their body camera videos are timestamped with the surveillance cameras that exist at the spot . Imagine if there were cameras in your car . Most of people will say that the bad state has cameras on policemen and cameras on road to invade their privacy , but these cameras can provide the evidence to prove that you are innocent .
So the problem is not that police is searching your car , but that the system is set up in such a way that it can be easily manipulated . Cops don't have accountability as no one can be certain if they act dishonestly , and by "default" a cop is serving the law so that makes him honest and you a criminal if they say so .
I think that in the cases you mention of cops telling the truth about their partners they would probably had some kind of evidence ( video , photo , recording etc ) . Usually when it's your word against 3 or 4 other guys , majority rules . So , that proves for another time what i say if you think of it .
Stop thinking that a society can work without rules both for public servants and citizens . Anarchy can't work , it will only lead to feudalism as human beings are mostly selfish . We need rules so there's accountability for our actions .  


I guess i have pointed about the presumption of innocence above . It's gone when drugs are found in the car ( even if it's planted ) . If cops word is the only evidence then suspect is screwed .
These cops proved guilt even if it's fake , and the funny part is that we don't know who's right or wrong .

In blockchain you can prove if you're innocent or not . Your transactions are the evidence . If you decide to take the route of anonymity you deprive yourself from the evidence you have . Bitcoin ( as it was supposed to work ) provides you with a high level of privacy , but not anonymity . If you are looking to be an anon you should better move to other chains . Bitcoin by default will not provide that .

HmmMAA loves totalitarian regimes, because apparently they can offer "zero crime".

Innocence as the default position has been lost since March 2020. We're all "guilty" by default and then we have to "prove" we're innocent.

How do you know he is guilty? Whatever happened to presumption of innocence?

The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence - the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt. And the onus is not on me to to open myself up to complete scrutiny by blockchain analysis and other government funded mass surveillance tools and prove that I have "nothing to hide".

Innocence is the default position. Privacy is the default position.

We know for sure because in some cases some other evidence were revealed, an example of that would be one of law enforcement officers telling the truth about thier partners either because they feel guilty or for some other personal reasons, but ya it happens all the time.

I am literally telling you that any random policeman can frame you pretty easily, just one pill of drug and you do a year in prison, you have to count on the integrity and honesty of everyone who has the power to frame you, you have no idea how scared people are when a police officer pull them over, you could end up doing a full a year in prison for "consuming drugs" and 5+ for selling it, if said officer has access to a large quantity of drugs they can put that in your car and you spend 5 good years in jail.

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", since this is someone's life and freedom, if the evidences are even remotely questionable -- they mean exactly nothing.

Honest question before i proceed to a full reply , how do we know that guy is innocent ?

In my country, many decades ago it was illegal for the police force to search your car without a warrant from the office of the attorney general or court, the lawmakers didn't seem to like that so they started changing it slightly one step at a time.

The first change was that the search was legal without a warrant, but unless they found a firearm in your car -- there was nothing much they could do about anything else they found, so there were many cases of police force searching a car that was being used in transporting a serious sum of drugs, they arrest the driver alongside the drugs, send them to court and the case will be dismissed right way as soon as the driver says " the drugs are not mine".

The next change they made was to include the "drugs" next to the firearms, so now you could be randomly checked at any checkpoint or even while getting pulled over for no reason, and if you got any drugs in the car it would be treated as if the search happened based on a court warrant, this lead to an increase of the number of drug dealers in prison by a few orders of magnitude, and then all the naive people were happy about the law change.

The next thing you know is that any police officer can stop you at any place, arrest you, take you to the general attorney's office, and say "We found this MDMA pill in his car" and just like that -- you get a few years in jail.

Years have passed since the change of the law, and now what? the drug dealers figured out many ways of moving the drugs around, no more fancy news headlines of "arrested 5 large drug dealers today" but every now and then we hear a story of an innocent person who was arrested and sentenced to a few months/years over something the law enforcement put in his car, the people are now fighting hard to change these laws because we don't care if you now catch 500 drug dealers instead of a 100 when we don't feel safe at checkpoints, I rather see the drug dealers in every corner of the country and not be sent to jail just because some police officer doesn't like the way I talk to him.

You can reflect the same drugs related law to the money laundry b.s, while these chain analyses do certainly help in catching hackers and bad actors in general, they could also be used as a weapon against innocent people, let's imagine a scenario where the law enforcement put their hands on an address that is proven to be owned by a human trafficker based on (chain analysis b.s), they use that address to send you some BTC and then take you to court with that evidence, that would be pretty terrible for you isn't it?  

It's funny because in your signature you put this great wisdom.


These chain analysis companies pay no price for being wrong, they just make what we can call an "educated guess" at best, and they don't have to pay the price for being wrong, this is indeed a fundamental disagreement not just related to crypto, some people think it's okay to bomb a whole building just to kill one criminal even if the collateral damage is 10 innocent people -- while others like me believe that even bombing a building with 10 criminal and 1 innocent soul is unacceptable.

I prefer to be truthful, even if that makes me unpleasant sometimes.

Are you equally truthful when you claim that you "ignore" my posts (even posts I made days ago)?

I bet not (come on, even BlackHatCoiner can see through your lies/bullshit ):

Call me unpleasant if you like, I don't mind, but you will never be able to call me a liar. You tend to lie excessively on bitcointalk and you know it.

I don't know who Gauloises is. Just because you're a smoker, doesn't mean I smoke too. I don't like burning my money, unlike you.

I'd rather stack more sats and protect my health from bad and addicting habits. Wanna try it too? Or do you lack self-discipline?

Well, I certainly don't believe a narcissist like CSW could be Satoshi (which you do), along with his pedophile buddy (which you also seem to admire), that's even crazier than believing in flat earth (which I don't)... Len Sassaman would be a better candidate IMHO, but obviously I'm not going to insist, unlike you fawning over CSW's "high intelligence/philosophical ability" (as you've said many, many times before).

My posts are here (and there) for everyone to read and evaluate.

When I said back in late 2018 (3k bottom) that we would experience a new bull run in 2021, I was right, even though some people got angry with me.

When I said back in March 2020 that it was the new BTC bottom (4k USD) and FED's QE would fuel the new bull run, I was also right, despite some people not believing me once again.

Regarding my other predictions (climate QE etc.), you'll just have to wait until 2025. Less than 2 years left...

I'm sorry if you feel inadequate when someone else makes better predictions than you do. It seems your ego is bigger than your IQ.

And no, I don't believe that everyone deserves to be saved from the fiat Ponzi scheme. Definitely not useless eaters (and there are many of them).

Anyway, you can keep attacking BTC maxis just because you feel butthurt about losing the block size wars and betting on the wrong horse:

Judging by Bob Menendez, it's possible to bribe politicians in many ways: USD cash, gold and maybe even Monero. Bribery won't go away with CBDC (cashless society), only fools believe that.

HmmMAA (also known as Geo Gou) envisions a utopia (more like a dystopia) of total transparency and "zero" crime. Sounds familiar? Many sci-fi movies have predicted this dystopian theme.

He wouldn't mind surveillance cameras even in his own WC, just because he has nothing to hide.

I'm still arguing that it isn't a long-term solution, even though it's completely irrelevant to your theory that the Core developers want to "destroy bitcoin".

Listen. If you have something personal with me, you can address it in the Reputation board. Negative trust is not given if someone's randomly accused of admitting he's made a couple of shitposts, comparably to the rest of his. I'll be glad if you created a new topic, gathering all of my "shitposts" there, and perhaps reaching out my campaign manager for their input. In my experience, though, professional managers don't just randomly hire shitposters, but you're free to question their decision-making.

Unfortunately for you, discussions in this space are predominantly paid.

---

Government spending is publicly available, and politicians have funds-source declaration. Corruption in politics won't be resolved by reporting Bitcoin addresses, because illicit activity like bravery happens with unreported funds in the first place.

The notion that with the absence of privacy, there will be absence of criminal activity and human corruption has long been debunked.

You are the one that have said many times in this forum that the 1 MB limit isn't sane . I understand that you have to argue just to increase your post count , earn some moneyz and also please cryptosize . Don't deny it , seems that your "friend" got you by the balls
To be honest i was expecting from you greater things , it's sad to see a young person falling to that low level just for profit .
I think community should give you neg trust , that's a serious accusation from cryptosize , so you could lose that income and maybe make you a better person ( small chances about both ) .

I have spend many hour arguing with you , but it seems that i was wasting my time just to increase your post count . I thought i had something to offer to you ( my time ) but you were taking advantage of me . I should have refute your bullshit from the start https://effectiviology.com/brandolinis-law/

What if you know the government's accounts ? Could you track how your/my/ours money are spent ? That's your problem , you only look at what benefits you . You fail to see the bigger picture . I won't waste any more time with you .


No need to do it yet , if i ever create a business on bsv i will certainly do . I'm not affraid to spend pennies like you by looking when fees are down to transact  

It's funny how you talk about cryptosize being a fan of conspiracy theories, when you're under the impression of much more exaggerated stuff.

For non-Greek readers, that translates to:

The Bitcoin Core developers want to delay adoption as much as possible, ruining Bitcoin's reputation, because...  

Quote from: HmmMAA on September 27, 2023, 02:05:19 PM

As for you o-e-l-e-o , i have face many times from maxis ad hominem's , while they just try to avoid reality

Do maxis avoid reality as much as you avoid replying to my counter-arguments?

Quote from: HmmMAA on September 27, 2023, 02:05:19 PM

You can't understand the most important part about bitcoin which is a ledger that shows every transaction

I know you're having troubles comprehending the technical aspect, but please give it a try.

A ledger showing every transaction doesn't make it a ledger which contains beyond basic information regarding the transaction that takes place. We don't announce if we're buying a product, to whom we transact with, our real name etc. That means you can't tell if the money really changes hands, or if money is laundered, or used illegally. Hereby, electronic cash. These levels of pseudonymity come by default, and it's technically possible to improve them further, with techniques like coinjoin.

If you've grasped that part, and you're still of the opinion that the public shouldn't have freedom to enjoy these privacy levels, then maybe you should create a Stalin fork and see who follows? I'm sure lots of politicians will support it.

Quote from: HmmMAA on September 27, 2023, 02:05:19 PM

And i'm pro bsv because i'm a man that lives in my time . I don't use my pentium and my 56kbps modem

Lol. Have you tried downloading the BSV-pirate-movie-chain, or are you still syncing?

Oh , so cryptosize writes about me ? He's ignored , i guess he's not saying the nicest things . I think he is a descendant of Gauloises and he thinks that the sky is falling on his head . He is a fan of every conspiracy theory and thinks that he is a prophet that has come to earth to save the ignorants . It's common for half brain monkeys ( too many in our days ) .


As for you o-e-l-e-o , i have face many times from maxis ad hominem's , while they just try to avoid reality .  You tried to not answer my questions many times , so i'll give the answers myself . You claim that surveillance doesn't help while many crimes have been solved thanks to it ( private surveillance or not ) . You say that it doesn't prevent them . If these criminals aren't arrested will they commit new crimes ? So , if a criminal is arrested after a crime aren't his not yet executed crimes prevented ? Of course to understand such things you have to leave your personal beliefs on the side and it's obvious you don't do that .
You aren't interested about privacy , you want a society without rules ( especially if this benefits you ) . You can't understand the most important part about bitcoin which is a ledger that shows every transaction , auditable by anyone . It's the first electronic cash system that does that , isn't that strange for a creation of a cypherpunk ?
You don't understand that when everything is build on bitcoin you will be able to audit governments and authorities . You don't understand that ( most ) crime exists because it's profitable . If you make it non profitable it will almost disappear . Bitcoin is here to help you in more ways than you can imagine .
If you want to learn stuff about bsv you better start reading yourself and stop learning things from influencers . As what you say about coins seized is total nonsense . Courts can do that , not anyone . It's a more improved version of what satoshi said " Imagine if gold turned to lead when stolen. If the thief gives it back, it turns to gold again." . And i'm pro bsv because i'm a man that lives in my time . I don't use my pentium and my 56kbps modem . Times move on . I guess you too have at least some Mbps line and some TB pc . 1 MB blocks are just an excuse so bitcoin never becomes adopted . Keep supporting that and lightning , after 7 years still doesn't work properly ( and it won't ) . And PLEASE , don't ever let core or the community increase the blocksize and start rejecting blocks with your rapspi's if they do . Other chains will welcome your miners ( which will happen eventually either way ) .

Totally agree , that's what i said , sidechains aren't btc . RSK is a nice try from Sergio based on satoshi's vision about sidechains  but unfortunately didn't gain the traction it deserved . 

FWIW, Bitcoin sidechain also exist where you can store such data. And by using SegWit/Taproot witness data (similar with what Ordinal does), you can store hash of multiple file into single transaction which have far higher efficiency.

This is unfortunately nothing new. Here's a post I made two years ago:


These kinds of opinions aren't just attacks on privacy, but they are attacks on bitcoin itself. Bitcoin was not designed to become another mass surveillance tool for the government to wield against us, and anyone proposing as much should be viewed as a malicious actor. It makes plenty of sense now that the same guy who thinks "the state should be able to monitor everything" is also a BSV shill and CSW cult member. BSV is already completely centralized and CSW and his buddies can seize any coins they want out of any wallet in existence.

No need to be illegal everywhere . You might get extradited in a foreign country .
You don't understand that things are getting more rough , forget the far west mentality and prepare . You might don't get it but i say this for your own good .
https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/66147

Who the fuck told you that Satoshi Nakomoto (Craig Wright according to you ) had a "big brother philosophy"? Do you have any source to back that claim up?

I still cannot fathom that people like you want to turn the BTC blockchain into a big brother tool! This explains your incessant love with jumbo size 4GB BSV blocks.

I guess it's a good thing BTC's block size won't be increased and the PoW consensus won't change to PoS either (according to ESG demands). Other chains will fill that despicable, totalitarian role that some people seem to be so fond of.

I mean, let's assume for a second that BTC became a big brother tool (with huge blocks and whatnot).

Don't you think that would vindicate conspiracy theorists who claim that Bitcoin is a covert NSA Psy-Op to enslave the masses (that apparently "love" Big Brother )? What would be the difference compared to CBDC (which is also blockchain-based)? Why the hell do we need Bitcoin then? Let's cut to the chase and adopt CBDC!

Get the fuck outta here with this NWO bullshit!

It's sad to realize that even this forum (which should be considered a bastion of freedom) is full of systemic/globalist trojan horses trying to hijack Bitcoin's blockchain for nefarious purposes.

Totally flabbergasted...

For sure, these issues are getting worse and even more murky in regards to the government's cooptation of private systems and even people with private systems are getting the rug pulled from under them without even knowing that their data is getting used by governments without a warrant and it may well even be questionable if they have probable cause in some cases that they get access to private security cameras that are using third parties for their data storage.

It seems that in some cases, the courts (or maybe even the people need to rebel) need to rule that state action is involved when governments are purchasing and/or otherwise getting data from third parties without warrants or with shoddy procedures that allow them too much access to too much private information (cameras and other kinds of data being held by supposed third parties).

I fail to see the link between this and your assertion that the state should be allowed to monitor everything. Even if bitcoin didn't exist, my stance on privacy would be the same. Indeed, my stance on privacy was the same before bitcoin.

My quote that you shared was referring specifically to this case, where potentially innocent people are being convicted of laundering money based on unreliable and probably downright false "evidence", which is being shielded from any independent verification. The government know this, but they don't care.

And I'll point out again that the Boston marathon bombers were not identified due to mass surveillance, but due to private citizens. If individuals or businesses want to use cameras on their private property, that is their right. The government does not have the right to record all people in all public places. And as I linked to above, the evidence shows that mass surveillance does not prevent any crimes.

No. They do not prevent crimes, and the downside far outweighs any theoretical security benefit.

It varies based on the jurisdiction and the specific regulatory framework. They are not illegal everywhere.

I very much do. I'm right as well recommending coinjoins and XMR swaps if trusting some stranger is enough of a concern, both of which are not illegal and might provide even better levels of privacy and anonymity. I guess you have a problem with that either.

As I said, I do point out that mixers require to forfeit custody, so loss of funds is a potential scenario. As for legal problems, using a mixer isn't illegal anywhere that Bitcoin is legal last time I checked, so no I don't believe there are legal problems with owning mixed coins.

Isn't it much of a cheap excuse for all of you who aren't wearing a signature to blame the personal gain when arguing about mixers? We can eliminate mixers entirely and opt for XMR swaps (which, by the way, I'm not being paid to promote!), but you would still need to explain to me why desiring these levels of privacy is inherently wrong.

What you fail to understand is that big brother is loved by the masses . Did you wonder why ?
The biggest weapon is not that there are cameras everywhere but that each one betrays each other . Your narratives don't let you see the most important slogan of the book which is "who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." ( have you thought that bitcoin as a timestamp machine solves this ? ) . What about "ignorance is strength" ? We see that today in the bitcoin community , which was one of the brightest communities years back but it has become a pack of laser eyed maxis with no understanding of the philosophy behind the technology that they only interested to pump their bags and buy lambos .
  
You contradict yourself , seems that you do not have a settled opinion .
So , with all the data they have so far about you and the assertion that the state is bad why are you not in jail ? Or me ? Is it because we have committed no crimes or they forgot us ?

Mixers are propaganda ? Huh ? Are you on drugs dude ? Do you want to read again what i wrote ?
Propaganda definition :  information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view .
You are promoting mixer services , which are not legal . If they were legal none of the mixers owners would be behind bars , right ? Do you explain somewhere that these services are based solely on trust and are targets of financial crime services and any use of those could potentially lead to loss of funds or even legal problems in the future ? I can't find any . So , you are using propaganda ( look at the definition again ) , as you are biased and have personal gain . Is it so hard to get it ?  


That still won't work in massive scale with blocks of max 12k transactions ( if all of them are segwit ) per 10 minutes . I agree that other chains can and will create such services in the future . But for sure btc won't/can't do it .