Topic: Blockchain Consortium in Japan (Read 915 times)

Yes exactly. But what we all love about Bitcoin is it is designed to be trustless. We all know that all the transactions that transpired and happened in the network is nothing but the truth. In Hyperledger, do the banks need to trust each other with their data? Will it not be possible for some corrupt banks to collude together to manipulate the ledger to their advantage and interests? How will they prevent this?

bitcoin isnt illegal or locked to fiat regulations because bitcoin is not pegged to fiat, however trying to make an altcoin that is pegged 1:1 with the us dollar will require alot of legal hurdles and alot of litigation..
in short it wont last.

you cannot beat the dollar by copying the dollar. you have to do something completely different that is nothing like the dollar that makes people holding the dollar not want the dollar anymore.
copying the dollar 1:1 is just gonna get you beat down with subpoenas and court orders, having your websites and services receive take down orders and threats of fines or prison.

sorry but 1:1 peg to the dollar wont work

That would be very easy to do. All you need is a Trusted Party. It creates a blockchain for Dollarcoins, and has 1 Trillion Dollarcoins in stock. They're not in circulation, until someone buys them. So they start selling them! 1 USD for 1 Dollarcoin, they will always have exactly that value. You can sell them for USD at any moment, or use them to pay for goods.
No need for high hash rates, no need to consume a lot of energy. Anybody could copy the blockchain and verify it, but only the Trusted Party earns a mining fee (say 1 cent per transaction). There is no block reward.
The Trusted Party could be a bank or a government, as far as people still trust them. This would be very practical for online shopping, it has endless applications for very cheap online transactions, but you can't use it to speculate. And I think Bitcoin (and any altcoin) mainly gained momentum because people hope to get rich from it.
I'd also love to see the same from a Trusted Party for buying stocks. It could be anonymous, untracable who owns what, and hidden away from taxes. For exactly these reasons governments would probably not allow this.

banks version will not be as strong as bitcoin, but instead of a single SQL database, by having duplicate 'databases' that can corroborate each other by simple showing each other a hash value of any piece of data. they know that none of their own staff have tweaked the data without the bank authorized permission.

savings can be made by sacking internal auditors and HR investigators, internal affairs officers, etc, etc. which saves them millions of dollars a year.

i agree the banks wont be using all 10 of bitcoins security features but.. by having lets say 94,000 bank branches in america alone. banks distribution within its closed network can actually be more distributed just in america more so then bitcoins ~5000 nodes.
so although they know its a closed network that is not going to have the POW difficulty of bitcoin, knowing each bank branch employee cannot maliciously create themselves a billions dollars to a secret account and then resign to the Bahamas. is a good thing to them.

so its swings and round abouts.. less secure than bitcoin but more secure than their old SQL system.
last thing to note. even bitcoin stores the data in a database. (using LevelDB)
its more about how the database is secured and how it avoids corruption that matters

Wouldnt it be more efficient and cheaper for those banks to use SQL or an Oracle database instead of riding the blockchain craze? Because it really feels like they are just trying to get in the trend of the times without really understanding what the whole point of Bitcoin really is, which is where they derived the blockchain from. Because for me a blockchain is the Bitcoin blockchain and if they cannot create it in the same manner then it might not even be a "blockchain" but a database with blocks that is "linked up together in a chain".

blockchain is just an umbrella term. it is just 1 security measure of the 10 security measures that makes bitcoin bitcoin.
all "blockchain" means is that each block contains the hash of the previous. thus linking blocks together.
as you say 'tying them together'
a blockchain is not defined by how its linked together either. meaning it doesnt need POW+SHA256 it doesnt even need SHA256 alone..a blockchain can be build using crappy MD5 and nothing else..
a blockchain doesnt even need to be distributed

however hyperledgers blockchain is using sha, but the lock is more so POA (proof of authority) where each hash is signed by a keypair.rather than POW.
so no, no random people will be mining it. but the banking cartell will be signing hashes to secure the chain. and distributing it on many systems internally as a way to offset tampering by their own employees by having it in separate locations instead of one single copy.

so yes its not going to be as strong as bitcoin. but then it will only be used on a closed system on hardware designed to only be run by those with authority.

at the moment its blockstream coding it mainly for IBM and Digital Asset holdings(blyth masters group of banking partners) and then because hyper ledger is a sidechain concept(many chains linked together) R3's chain is then one sidechain off (added on) and then the asian banks are in the process of adding their sidechain to the hyper ledger

construction timeline
DAH came first as the 'master'(pun blythe) chain
R3 got involved in spring summer as a sidechain
asian banks summer autumn as a sidchain.

they are hoping to get something testable by spring 2017

google is a good friend
mixtures of
blythe masters digital asset holdings hyperledger
blythe masters digital asset holdings hyperledger RTGS
R3 hyperledger
R3 hyperledger
blockstream hyperledger

this link
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2016/02/linux-foundation-s-hyperledger-project-announces-30-founding
gives some of the players involved.. R3, DAH, IBM .. blockstream

though that's from February 2016 and many more banks (asian mainly) have added to the pile after that February announcement

Is Hyperledger really a "blockchain"? Does it use proof of work? Will anyone be able to mine the blocks in the Hyperledger network? Sometimes I see that many up and coming start ups and the formed R3 banking consortium claim that they will be using a "blockchain" but all we see is a glorified database that uses blocks and tied them up together in a chain and then called it a "blockchain".

They want to take out the most important piece of the puzzle that makes a "blockchain" a Blockchain which is proof of work.

Agree, Bitcoin is like inventing internet in '90.  So they should be proud, they are proud nation tho by itself.

This is very true.If I am not wrong this is the first time such a big consortium taking place somewhere and this happening in Japan is definitly going to make huge difference.I hope other Asian countries follow the suit

look into hyperledger..
and yes blockstream programmed it and banks own it. including chinese banks

I was thinking here how they can introduce fiat currency in blockchain, if one day someone can do that will be great however I doubt it will happen.

Blockchain is a baby, hope this technology can grow strong.

It would surely spread on Asia  so easily because as we all  know that  japan  is already a developed  country and  also had a  rich  economy and  advance  on  technology which means  it would widespread so easily and the  adoption  would  increase  and  further more  other  neighbourhing  country  would   hear  this  kind  of  adoption  and would tend   to accept it too. This would be  a  good news.

This has nothing to do with Bitcoin, because these fools are falling for Ripple. This will just be a glorified ledger system like they have used before, but based on Blockchain technology. Ripple are trying everything to stay alive, even teaming up with banks.

You will see a private system with centralized control and zero anonymity and transparency. Not one of the qualities for a public Blockchain. ^hmmmmm^

the linux foundation is one of them not for profit/charity scams to get a tax break. banks love throwing funds into foundations/NFP's because if they are on 10% corporation tax they can throw 10% into the foundation/NPF and not pay corporation tax. (tax write off)
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/exempt-organizations-select-check-deductibility-status-codes
https://www.gov.uk/tax-limited-company-gives-to-charity/how-to-claim

thus then freeing up funds that would have gone to a government treasury to then be used indirectly by themselves for other purposes.

yes many projects that go in the linux foundation are destined to die. but thats the point. previously it was used just as a way to write off some money and then claim it back and pay bonuses to companies via a back door.

but this hyperledger funded by banks and coded by core devs (the blockstream employee's mainly) has the potential of making banks a few trillions of value in the near future. so they use the tax writeoff black hole to make their investments cost nothing. knowing they can then use those funds to make more 'value' later.

ofcourse they have tried to control bitcoin via XT and core by buying up the devs, but as long as we dont let the banks control bitcoin and keep bitcoin as the open ledger for everyone then they have to make their trillions on another network.

i kind of feel ashamed by some people that actually want banks to take over bitcoin, thus turning bitcoin into FIAT 2.0.. as that is so short sighted and those people should just go play with fiat as they are missing the point of what bitcoin is all about.

banks should have their own closed off network, and slowly suffocate themselves. and allow the world to have the open choice of a bitcoin currency that has no barrier of entry and no middlemen/dual signing de-facto requirement.. or use fiat..
but not turn bitcoin into a banker controlled fiat network

They have been patenting some parts of the technology because these banks do not trust each other. This consortium and the hyperledger strategy will crash hard and fail unless they learn to level with each other and learn to work together for the common good. Patenting is very counterproductive for what they are trying to achieve. If they truly distrust each other, then why not use Bitcoin instead?

Also according to some, the Linux Foundation is a trashcan. It is where you put your dead projects.

lol.. you do know greg maxwell, pieter wuille, luke jr, matt corralo and a dozen others are in R3's pockets.
by the way mike hearne resigned from R3.. yet the others mentioned above are happily making hyperledger for the banking cartel and integrating other corporate ledgers..

have you actually asked yourself why these same people are pushing for sidechains.. instead of keeping bitcoin independent as its own unique network

research hyperledger and dont be fooled by their bait and switch tactics to take people eyes away from their own failings

I often read about banks wanting to use blockchain, but once again it isn't clear what exactly they want to use it for.

The statement from SBI (quote from the link in the OP):
I can't see how this can utilize a blockchain in any way that provides an advantage over current methods.

I don't think Satoshi is a japanese guy...

Well, Japan is always ahead when we talk about technology, I'm waiting for the Olympics there, will be great, a show of tech and sport ofc!

Well with a guy like Mike Hearn contributing to R3, I would think it would be pretty shitty... How much did he contribute to the actual code in

Bitcoin again? https://github.com/mikehearn ....Not a lot.  .... Japan is gearing up for a big move, if you look at the bigger picture. They

have been in the news a lot lately, and most things are very positive towards Bitcoin. https://news.bitcoin.com/japan-new-bitcoin-trading-superpower/

and also http://thenextweb.com/finance/2016/09/26/bitcoin-japan-utility-bills/

Japan should more proud that Satoshi Nakamoto was (supposedly) a japanese man... they don't value enough the fact that a guy named Satoshi Nakamoto created the most important technology of our generation. They should make a statue for him somewhere, or at least some street in his name.