Topic: Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC? (Read 290 times)
why the hell do people keep using that wallet? Only in this section there are ten topics of complaints from this wallet so why are there still people who continue to use this wallet even seeing these dozens of complaints? it seems like people complain and then go back to using the same wallet that created problems for them. Years ago when I used this wallet I just had headaches with the SMS 2FA that took days to get the code on my cell
Re the user above asking about my personal bias, I think I posted above or on the related thread that I'm a lawyer. My interest is in learning how the legal system can better translate its services to the crypto universe. I enjoy crypto investing and am trying to expand my knowledge of a field which I think has potential (likelihood?) of changing the lives of most people on earth. This particular company happens to be "low-hanging fruit" for me to learn what's going on.
I'll preface this reply by saying I am most definitely not a lawyer.In my opinion, centralized services which hold on to users' coins on their behalf have got away with far too much scammy behavior for far too long. I include web wallets such as blockchain.com in this, but also most centralized exchanges. Sure, there are plenty of users of blockchain.com web wallet who only have themselves to blame, after not writing down their seed phrase or forgetting their account details, but the number of users reporting issues where they have had coins or entire addresses disappear from their wallet, seed phrases recovering an entirely different set of addresses, transaction being sent to addresses which no longer exist, etc., are too many to ignore. Add in the fact we know that they have previously had critical vulnerabilities go unnoticed in their system as I explained above, and coupled with the fact the blockchain.com's customer support is legendarily useless and provides absolutely zero support to these users, often leading to people like us on forums such as this one trying to help these users recover their coins, then I would love to see these cowboys actually be held responsible for some of their behavior.
it's possible that the company is negligent or worse
This is absolutely true.They previously reused r values which resulted in hundreds of users having their coins stolen. Basically, every time you sign a bitcoin transaction, a random number is included as part of the signing process. If you reuse this random number across multiple transactions (as blockchain.com did), then you can essentially reverse the signing process and calculate the users' private keys. Once you have their private keys, you can steal all their coins.
Thankfully, a bitcointalk.org user managed to sweep lots of the vulnerable funds and later return them to their rightful owners. It's an incredible basic mistake for blockchain.com to make. Who knows what other incredibly basic mistakes they make when it comes to their security.
Cuz I think it makes them easier to read.
It doesn'tThat's fascinating to know. Definitely supports my concern that there may be (additional) fire where we keep seeing smoke.
Re the user above asking about my personal bias, I think I posted above or on the related thread that I'm a lawyer. My interest is in learning how the legal system can better translate its services to the crypto universe. I enjoy crypto investing and am trying to expand my knowledge of a field which I think has potential (likelihood?) of changing the lives of most people on earth. This particular company happens to be "low-hanging fruit" for me to learn what's going on.
it's possible that the company is negligent or worse
This is absolutely true.They previously reused r values which resulted in hundreds of users having their coins stolen. Basically, every time you sign a bitcoin transaction, a random number is included as part of the signing process. If you reuse this random number across multiple transactions (as blockchain.com did), then you can essentially reverse the signing process and calculate the users' private keys. Once you have their private keys, you can steal all their coins.
Thankfully, a bitcointalk.org user managed to sweep lots of the vulnerable funds and later return them to their rightful owners. It's an incredible basic mistake for blockchain.com to make. Who knows what other incredibly basic mistakes they make when it comes to their security.
Cuz I think it makes them easier to read.
It doesn't 
All your posts in the 3 days since you've registered being about blockchain.com make me wonder, what has happened between you and this company?
Because just with this topic where you only make an assumption but you don't point out one single instance of a scam, a theft, a whatever with proofs you seem to forget your own words:
So what's your allegation?
That you heard somebody on the street talking about a friend who knows about something fishy going on?
Seems to me like you're on some kind of quest here to find somebody to blame for...what?
Because just with this topic where you only make an assumption but you don't point out one single instance of a scam, a theft, a whatever with proofs you seem to forget your own words:
Cases start with allegations.
So what's your allegation?
That you heard somebody on the street talking about a friend who knows about something fishy going on?
Anyway, as noted at the top - I'm a noob. A lot of things are changing as we transition to blockchain, and I keep wondering about responsibility - of wallet devs, of hosts, of oracles who give bad info, etc.
Seems to me like you're on some kind of quest here to find somebody to blame for...what?
There was someone (or a group of ppl apparently) wanting to file a lawsuit and was looking for fellow victims, thread: Blockchain.com scam - lost funds
But this was in 2019 and who knows what happened. I'm guessing they weren't able to push thru considering I don't see any articles about this. They did left their email addresses and yt channel, you can try reaching out if you wanna hear the specifics.
Another possibility is this could be a scam, exercise caution as always.
I don't see any case push thru in crypto industries related on this kind of scamming and maybe those victims didn't push their case since its so hassle to chase someone online and maybe they decide to move on that's why this platform continue to operate. So maybe this is warning for people seeking the service they offer to better stop and find another platform which is reliable to avoid getting scam. But this was in 2019 and who knows what happened. I'm guessing they weren't able to push thru considering I don't see any articles about this. They did left their email addresses and yt channel, you can try reaching out if you wanna hear the specifics.
Another possibility is this could be a scam, exercise caution as always.
And I'd say my point is that the Web sites ARE responsible here. Then can prove they fulfilled their duty of care re your wealth, but in many cases it sounds like they haven't.
I do get the point you are trying to make, but I don't really think you are right in this particular case. Blockchain.info web wallet is not a custodial service; they are not holding you coins for you, but rather providing an interface in which you can handle your coins (with your private keys). If you are using a Hardware wallet (say trezor or ledger) to keep your coins safe and also use their app/interface but somehow end up losing the coins; is it your fault or is it theirs?
As for the rest, every big company does usually get a pass in the old legal system, only thing that matters here is cabbage; so OG crypto services like blockchain (or some exchanges) have no real trouble in this department. Sad, but that's how the world is currently run...
There was someone (or a group of ppl apparently) wanting to file a lawsuit and was looking for fellow victims, thread: Blockchain.com scam - lost funds
But this was in 2019 and who knows what happened. I'm guessing they weren't able to push thru considering I don't see any articles about this. They did left their email addresses and yt channel, you can try reaching out if you wanna hear the specifics.
Another possibility is this could be a scam, exercise caution as always.
But this was in 2019 and who knows what happened. I'm guessing they weren't able to push thru considering I don't see any articles about this. They did left their email addresses and yt channel, you can try reaching out if you wanna hear the specifics.
Another possibility is this could be a scam, exercise caution as always.
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
That's because in 99.9% of the cases, it is. If we were talking about the electrum wallet, would someone think about going after the developers for losing the coins? I don't think so. Blockchain.info/com has its problems, but that does not mean they are responsible for their users' actions. If there was enough evidence that they were doing something malicious, then I'm pretty sure we'd all go against them. However, most claims one sees around are the same than for desktop/phone wallets, so it's in most cases a new crypto user that thinks that because there's a website offering a service, the website is reponsible for security.
PS: why do you write all your posts in italics?
Cuz I think it makes them easier to read.
And I'd say my point is that the Web sites ARE responsible here. Then can prove they fulfilled their duty of care re your wealth, but in many cases it sounds like they haven't.
Anyway, as noted at the top - I'm a noob. A lot of things are changing as we transition to blockchain, and I keep wondering about responsibility - of wallet devs, of hosts, of oracles who give bad info, etc.
Re closed source wallets .... ok, I see what you're getting at. Very libertarian community here. But if the code is in fact horseshit and the company is stupid enough to maintain a corporate presence in first-world companies (like Blockchain.com does), then the old legal system may have some value in getting them to act professionally.
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
That's because in 99.9% of the cases, it is. If we were talking about the electrum wallet, would someone think about going after the developers for losing the coins? I don't think so. Blockchain.info/com has its problems, but that does not mean they are responsible for their users' actions. If there was enough evidence that they were doing something malicious, then I'm pretty sure we'd all go against them. However, most claims one sees around are the same than for desktop/phone wallets, so it's in most cases a new crypto user that thinks that because there's a website offering a service, the website is reponsible for security.
PS: why do you write all your posts in italics?
The problem is not about blockchain.info/com or any other wallet it is about using closed souces wallet and web wallet.
If you used closed source wallet you can know what happen at the background and thus assume you will be hacked or ypur seed will be stored.
Blockchain don't have any legal responsibility if you lose your money, they can stop the service at any time, and they can't help you if there's any problem.
If you used closed source wallet you can know what happen at the background and thus assume you will be hacked or ypur seed will be stored.
Blockchain don't have any legal responsibility if you lose your money, they can stop the service at any time, and they can't help you if there's any problem.
Thanks for the replies, guys.
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
As I noted above, I'm not ok with that. But I was too late to BTC to pay for litigation against the company by myself
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
As I noted above, I'm not ok with that. But I was too late to BTC to pay for litigation against the company by myself
Most of the allegations against blockchain happen due to malware attacks, attackers stealing funds from the Wallet. But usually, we blame the Blockchain immediately where we are unable to save our assets. The first thing is we shouldn't choose a Web wallet to store our funds. Then blockchain won't steal as well.
Besides that, there is blame where blockchain staff is involved. There are possibilities to steal your seed. I have read somewhere how they do it. It's possible to change your email on Blockchain and it would be done easily by blockchain staff. Then they will brute force and request wallet files. So after stealing the funds they restore the old email. So the user even doesn't aware of how the funds have gone from his wallet.
Besides that, there is blame where blockchain staff is involved. There are possibilities to steal your seed. I have read somewhere how they do it. It's possible to change your email on Blockchain and it would be done easily by blockchain staff. Then they will brute force and request wallet files. So after stealing the funds they restore the old email. So the user even doesn't aware of how the funds have gone from his wallet.
There are lots of news before about blockchain but we don't know how these people protect their own wallet on blockchain.
I have an account there and open it with my backup from blockchain.info to .com but my Bitcoin is there.
So, what I think is those people who lose Bitcoin on that wallet are being phished or it could be some hacker stole their Bitcoin because Bitcoins, before is not yet known by any Antivirus or maybe those who lost bitcoin have infected PC that it could possibly the reason why their Bitcoins are stolen.
Right now, I never use them again because that wallet is online and there is no guaranteed safe there are many things that could happen if your wallet is always online and hackers can do anything they want to brute force your blockchain wallet.
If you don't have Bitcoins before on Blockchain why bother? You can just switch to other wallets like ledger or trezor or Electrum.
But if you have Bitcoins before and now it's gone then why not try to report them to SEC if you have evidence that you can report?
I have an account there and open it with my backup from blockchain.info to .com but my Bitcoin is there.
So, what I think is those people who lose Bitcoin on that wallet are being phished or it could be some hacker stole their Bitcoin because Bitcoins, before is not yet known by any Antivirus or maybe those who lost bitcoin have infected PC that it could possibly the reason why their Bitcoins are stolen.
Right now, I never use them again because that wallet is online and there is no guaranteed safe there are many things that could happen if your wallet is always online and hackers can do anything they want to brute force your blockchain wallet.
If you don't have Bitcoins before on Blockchain why bother? You can just switch to other wallets like ledger or trezor or Electrum.
But if you have Bitcoins before and now it's gone then why not try to report them to SEC if you have evidence that you can report?
But what I'm seeing on this sub is a lot of people claiming coins simply disappear from wallets.
Most of those cases are due to user's actions, either they upload there seed online that someone got access to it, hacked their device (desktop/mobile phone), phished, then acquired their holdings and etc.Some are just display bugs or server errors. While there are other cases that users can only accused their service or somewhat as inside job as stealing their coins, coz even though we were told that "blockchain.com don't have an access to users wallet" still there's no 100% proof for that. Though the app/website is somewhat open-source, as per said above source codes can be changed without no one's knowing.
That's why mostly don't recommended to use their wallet or any online wallet coz of risks of hacking, stealing and etc. If anyone want to have a peace of mind use electrum or any trusted hardware wallets such ledger and trezor instead.
All Virtual Currency held in your Trading Account will be custodial assets held on trust by Blockchain.com for your benefit on a custodial basis on trust for your benefit.
Then for the trading account - and only for that - you may have a case. But I know of complains about the funds missing from the wallet, not from the trading account.
And let me just emphasize again: T&Cs cannot make illegal behavior into something legal. If they're stealing coins or negligently failing to protect coins or negligently failing to protect their domain, that is all actionable. The only thing the T&Cs could do is force the customer to file suit in a specific court or to use arbitration; they can't change the fact that Blockchain has a duty to its customers.
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."[/i]
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."[/i]
You seem to fail to understand how blockchain.com works and how bitcoin works.
Blockchain.com is a tool, helping you handle your coins. The coins are not in their custody. It's not like Coinbase or Xapo wallet.
The coins are not in the wallet. They never are. They're "on the blockchain".
So it doesn't matter you have a wallet on blockchain.com if you or somebody else use your private key or seed, recover the wallet in - let's say Electrum and spend the funds from there. Obviously blockchain.com will also display them as gone.
So you didn't give your coin to them. And you may very well spend the coins yourself without telling them.
"5.2.1 General
Any Virtual Currency you purchase using fiat currency in the Wallet will be held in the Trading Account. All Virtual Currency held in your Trading Account will be custodial assets held on trust by Blockchain.com for your benefit on a custodial basis on trust for your benefit."
https://www.blockchain.com/legal/terms
These are the July 2021 Terms; most of the disputes here would be under earlier T&Cs.
I do understand how Bitcoin works. I also understand how finance companies work; if there is any way for them to trade against your assets, they will do so. Otherwise, there's no value in any "wallet" business model. I know that Paypal and other companies are selling derivative assets and not actual Bitcoins; while I don't know Blockchain.com's business model as well, I do know that one shouldn't assume ANY "wallet" company is blind to its users' assets.
And let me just emphasize again: T&Cs cannot make illegal behavior into something legal. If they're stealing coins or negligently failing to protect coins or negligently failing to protect their domain, that is all actionable. The only thing the T&Cs could do is force the customer to file suit in a specific court or to use arbitration; they can't change the fact that Blockchain has a duty to its customers.
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."[/i]
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."[/i]
You seem to fail to understand how blockchain.com works and how bitcoin works.
Blockchain.com is a tool, helping you handle your coins. The coins are not in their custody. It's not like Coinbase or Xapo wallet.
The coins are not in the wallet. They never are. They're "on the blockchain".
So it doesn't matter you have a wallet on blockchain.com if you or somebody else use your private key or seed, recover the wallet in - let's say Electrum and spend the funds from there. Obviously blockchain.com will also display them as gone.
So you didn't give your coin to them. And you may very well spend the coins yourself without telling them.
I'm seeing a lot of posts about losing bitcoin on blockchain.info. It seems that everyone is ready to blame themselves, but is the company really running some kind of scam?
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
1. They're blockchain.com now.
2. Any, but really any website has the potential to steal your money or data. Just imagine a developer replaces the page for a couple of minutes with one that saves your seed into their database.
3. Indeed, the chance for [2] is small and most of those crying they've got scammed probably accesses phishing sites - sites looking identical with the original, but on different domain, definitely saving the seed in the hacker/scammer's database.
4. blockchain.com T&C basically tells that you use their website on your own risk, so I don't think that anyone can have a case against them. They, officially, don't do anything wrong and they won't answer in court because one gave his seed to a phishing site. Keep in mind that anyone who gets the seed or private key can spend the funds and blockchain.com is not needed for that operation.
Thank you for your prompt response.
Certainly if someone accessed a different URL or gave their keys to another person through phishing, that is not the fault of Blockchain.com/.info.
But what I'm seeing on this sub is a lot of people claiming coins simply disappear from wallets.
And let me just emphasize again: T&Cs cannot make illegal behavior into something legal. If they're stealing coins or negligently failing to protect coins or negligently failing to protect their domain, that is all actionable. The only thing the T&Cs could do is force the customer to file suit in a specific court or to use arbitration; they can't change the fact that Blockchain has a duty to its customers.
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."
I'm seeing a lot of posts about losing bitcoin on blockchain.info. It seems that everyone is ready to blame themselves, but is the company really running some kind of scam?
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
1. They're blockchain.com now.
2. Any, but really any website has the potential to steal your money or data. Just imagine a developer replaces the page for a couple of minutes with one that saves your seed into their database.
3. Indeed, the chance for [2] is small and most of those crying they've got scammed probably accesses phishing sites - sites looking identical with the original, but on different domain, definitely saving the seed in the hacker/scammer's database.
4. blockchain.com T&C basically tells that you use their website on your own risk, so I don't think that anyone can have a case against them. They, officially, don't do anything wrong and they won't answer in court because one gave his seed to a phishing site. Keep in mind that anyone who gets the seed or private key can spend the funds and blockchain.com is not needed for that operation.
I'm seeing a lot of posts about losing bitcoin on blockchain.info. It seems that everyone is ready to blame themselves, but is the company really running some kind of scam?
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
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