Blocks are still taking way too long.

Este Nuno

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amarha

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 20, 2014, 12:03:36 PM

Current time since last block = ~25 minutes which is 'only' 2.5 times the average of 10 minutes.
Simple fact: In some situations, 25+ minutes is WAY too long for a single confirmation.
If stating that 'simple fact' in public makes some people angry, that us too bad, since it is true.

Which services are you using that are making you wait for confirmations? (Maybe you've mentioned it elsewhere, but this is a large thread.)

Just off the top of my head of services I've used recently that have needed confirmations: putting money on my mobile phone, paying my internet bill, localbitcoins.

Most of the time it seems any service that doesn't use coinbase or bitpay makes you wait in my experience.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Current time since last block = ~25 minutes which is 'only' 2.5 times the average of 10 minutes.
Simple fact: In some situations, 25+ minutes is WAY too long for a single confirmation.
If stating that 'simple fact' in public makes some people angry, that us too bad, since it is true.

honky1492

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The app should tell how risky particular 0 confirmation transaction is. This is much better than the current safe approach - 6 confirmations recommended.

magic ice

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Quote from: MicroGuy on October 19, 2014, 10:04:07 PM

Quote from: Dabs on October 19, 2014, 10:02:56 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on October 19, 2014, 09:53:49 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

Gavin should just fork Bitcoin and fix this problem. That's what Satoshi would have done by now.

I don't think so. Satoshi was the one who specified the 10 minute target per block.

Yes. The block target interval was suitable then. But let's face it, Bitcoin is a different beast now.

It is still the same beast. Only older, very unstable and predictable.

OrientA

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Quote from: Window2Wall on October 19, 2014, 10:59:19 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on October 19, 2014, 09:53:49 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

Gavin should just fork Bitcoin and fix this problem. That's what Satoshi would have done by now.

I guarantee this is not the case. Satoshi specifically said that a 10 minute block time was ideal because it reaches a balance between too short of block times (and having a lot of orphans) and having it take too long to have a TX get confirmed. He was fully aware that 10 minutes will only be an average and that it will sometimes take more then 10 minutes for a block to be found.

Gavin can not also just "fork" the protocol as he does not control what the miners accept. In order for the protocol to actually fork the miners must accept the fork or else no one will actually be using the new protocol

10 min is a good compromise. In the future, when the network rate is faster, it can be reduced.

Window2Wall

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Quote from: MicroGuy on October 19, 2014, 09:53:49 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

Gavin should just fork Bitcoin and fix this problem. That's what Satoshi would have done by now.

I guarantee this is not the case. Satoshi specifically said that a 10 minute block time was ideal because it reaches a balance between too short of block times (and having a lot of orphans) and having it take too long to have a TX get confirmed. He was fully aware that 10 minutes will only be an average and that it will sometimes take more then 10 minutes for a block to be found.

Gavin can not also just "fork" the protocol as he does not control what the miners accept. In order for the protocol to actually fork the miners must accept the fork or else no one will actually be using the new protocol

Dabs

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I just bought a domain on namecheap. I funded it using bitcoin. They use BitPay. After about 5 to 10 seconds of sending my transaction, I was considered paid and funded. They're doing something right, you do not need to wait for the next block.

MicroGuy

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Quote from: Dabs on October 19, 2014, 10:02:56 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on October 19, 2014, 09:53:49 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

Gavin should just fork Bitcoin and fix this problem. That's what Satoshi would have done by now.

I don't think so. Satoshi was the one who specified the 10 minute target per block.

Yes. The block target interval was suitable then. But let's face it, Bitcoin is a different beast now.

Dabs

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Quote from: MicroGuy on October 19, 2014, 09:53:49 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

Gavin should just fork Bitcoin and fix this problem. That's what Satoshi would have done by now.

I don't think so. Satoshi was the one who specified the 10 minute target per block.

MicroGuy

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

Gavin should just fork Bitcoin and fix this problem. That's what Satoshi would have done by now.

the joint

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Quote from: Dabs on October 18, 2014, 05:33:24 AM

Quote from: the joint on October 17, 2014, 07:29:29 PM

With BTC, I can give you a few models which remove the need for checkout lines, checkout counters, and even cashiers, and only require a couple security personnel at the doors Cheesy

I'm listening. (or reading.) Go ahead, tell us about it.

I made a thread about it the other day

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/my-ideal-in-store-bitcoin-shopping-experience-827247

This is one example. I believe the general model works. though specific details need to be fleshed out. Most of the concerns others have listed aren't too convincing, in my opinion. But I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

zendantom

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Quote from: Este Nuno on October 19, 2014, 01:12:38 PM

Quote from: santaClause on October 19, 2014, 12:37:48 PM

Two minutes is still too short. On average one in 120 blocks will, at minimum get orphaned, however it will be likely be much greater.

You don't think that it's an acceptable trade off to increase usability of the currency though?

The two minutes per block is pretty bad idea especially if the blocks become much bigger in size. The orphan rate would discourage adding transactions, thus keeping the blocks small instead! This two minutes per block could kill future Bitcoin adoption because miners could refuse creating big blocks

Window2Wall

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Quote from: Este Nuno on October 19, 2014, 01:12:38 PM

Quote from: santaClause on October 19, 2014, 12:37:48 PM

Two minutes is still too short. On average one in 120 blocks will, at minimum get orphaned, however it will be likely be much greater.

You don't think that it's an acceptable trade off to increase usability of the currency though?

The block time for Bitcoin is 10 minutes. The time it takes to know with a good amount of certainty that a TX will confirm is roughly 10 seconds. This is less time then it would take the average person to go to a blockchain block explorer to look at the transaction and examine the TX fees, inputs, ect.

I think it is safe to say that bitcoin is very usable as it is right now

BittBurger

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Quote from: franky1 on October 11, 2014, 03:10:39 AM

solution:
if your paying for a coffee or a mars bar, dont wait. if your buying a house wait 30 minutes

You're killing me with this fucking mess of a sentence.

sushibi

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Quote from: seriouscoin on October 11, 2014, 12:16:11 AM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on October 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM

Over 30 minutes for a single confirmation does not (and will not ever) work in the real world.
(Almost) Every time I start to believe that BTC is "going mainstream", I have a delay waiting for a 30+ minute block.... Shocked

BS, its called variance. I have always got confirmed within 10min, some even in secs ..... What does that tell you?

Look at the avg block time, you've been this ignorant b4. Sell your coins and fck off?

lol you made my day

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: santaClause on October 19, 2014, 12:37:48 PM

Two minutes is still too short. On average one in 120 blocks will, at minimum get orphaned, however it will be likely be much greater.

You don't think that it's an acceptable trade off to increase usability of the currency though?

santaClause

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Quote from: Este Nuno on October 19, 2014, 11:40:53 AM

Quote from: santaClause on October 19, 2014, 10:09:47 AM

Quote from: Dabs on October 18, 2014, 08:57:32 AM

There's an alt called FastCoin. They do 12 second blocks. I haven't checked if that was the case though, just what I've read about them.

A very good example of why it is not good to have short confirmation times is on the ghash multipool. They have live updates as to how many confirmations each found block of each altcoin has. They often have very long chains of coins going from orphaned to confirmed and back again. The chains are often 10 or more blocks long

Yeah, there's a sweet spot and 12 seconds with the current codebase is almost certainly much to fast. I'd guess 2 minutes is the sweet spot, but I'd like to see some data on that too. There's a limit of how many orphans should be acceptable and how much hash gets wasted in the name of user experience for sure. I do think that number is blow 10 minutes though.

Two minutes is still too short. On average one in 120 blocks will, at minimum get orphaned, however it will be likely be much greater. I am not sure what the block time on he alts with the very long orphan chains however I am pretty sure it is more then one minute and that the orphan chains often last 30 minutes plus.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: santaClause on October 19, 2014, 10:09:47 AM

Quote from: Dabs on October 18, 2014, 08:57:32 AM

There's an alt called FastCoin. They do 12 second blocks. I haven't checked if that was the case though, just what I've read about them.

A very good example of why it is not good to have short confirmation times is on the ghash multipool. They have live updates as to how many confirmations each found block of each altcoin has. They often have very long chains of coins going from orphaned to confirmed and back again. The chains are often 10 or more blocks long

Yeah, there's a sweet spot and 12 seconds with the current codebase is almost certainly much to fast. I'd guess 2 minutes is the sweet spot, but I'd like to see some data on that too. There's a limit of how many orphans should be acceptable and how much hash gets wasted in the name of user experience for sure. I do think that number is blow 10 minutes though.

santaClause

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Quote from: Dabs on October 18, 2014, 08:57:32 AM

There's an alt called FastCoin. They do 12 second blocks. I haven't checked if that was the case though, just what I've read about them.

A very good example of why it is not good to have short confirmation times is on the ghash multipool. They have live updates as to how many confirmations each found block of each altcoin has. They often have very long chains of coins going from orphaned to confirmed and back again. The chains are often 10 or more blocks long

Dabs

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The Concierge of Crypto

There's an alt called FastCoin. They do 12 second blocks. I haven't checked if that was the case though, just what I've read about them.

Topic: Blocks are still taking way too long. (Read 5929 times)