[BMR] Merged mining in BitMonero (proposal) - page 2.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

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Quote from: MadCow on April 26, 2014, 06:58:25 PM

I am not in favour of merged mining. Keep Monero separate from ByteCoin for a 'new' clean image from the start. We don't want 'baggage'!

Well said brother. This coin has a compelling technology, great name, a clean launch, a strong respect for fairness, and an amazing team of people. The best path forward is to focus on our strengths and not have anything to do with "that other coin" or even mention it, much less merge mine it. Leave the baggage behind.

Everything about this coin is so far superior to the botched effort that came before, it is remarkable we are even having this conversation.

MadCow

hero member

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I am not in favour of merged mining. Keep Monero separate from ByteCoin for a 'new' clean image from the start. We don't want 'baggage'!

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

I am against merged mining.

emontmon

member

Activity: 196

Merit: 10

i posted this on bmr emmision curve thread. i apologize for double post but i am eager to getting input

would it be better to leave this coin alone. It seems it is now Fractured.
If coin continues then so be it. Let miners cont to mine coin as is.
Honey penny for example is building on BCN. There are a a lot of individual that are very Knowledgeable. could this coin be developed to include private messaging, Proof of work, and proof of stake. Perhaps, other mechanism Duration of mining. This to encourage mining in The distant future.add colored coins ability. Just a thought. I realize this maybe stupid.
I don't see necessity to fund project. Developers wold be among Earliest adopters. If it is a great Idea than it will Succeed. If you build it the Miners will Come. And so the more users the greater the Demand-the higher the price of original coins.. Compared to those mining from the very first hour, Knowledge coupled with low difficulty they probably have more coins than I do I started Mining monero 5 days After launch and so far have accumulated 260 coins. i am speculating but likely tft has more coins than i do and well deserved

GreekBitcoin

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getmonero.org

Quote from: JPSelzer on April 26, 2014, 04:57:29 PM

Quote from: Cheesus on April 26, 2014, 06:36:20 AM

But you will gain the reward from both chains, aren’t you? I don’t understand it fully but from my side mining 2 chains is better than mining 1. Even if the difficulty is going up.

So, currently I support MM implementation.

I think, it’s a good idea. BCN has fairly stable exchange rate, moreover we solve 2 problems. First is the fear of closed community and the second one is the fear of new coin with untrusted (now) algorithm (MRO has no normal course or clear system of work).

It’s no difference for our computing power to receive MRO or MRO + BCN. Don’t forget, that we are talking about money and this option will brings a real benefit for us. So, why should we abandon this function?

And if the problem is in "policy" and developers disagreements, then why miners have to suffer?

how come BCN has a fairly stable exchange rate? It is not listed anywhere. There are buy orders listed on the thread that noone actually responds. BCN preminers just seem to unloading the premine...

As for the difference read the whole thread. IF we merge mine we MUST also mine BCN. And with all that premine BCN is useless...

SlyWax

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Activity: 248

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Quote from: thankful_for_today on April 25, 2014, 06:51:23 PM

3. Mine block blkAAA:
3.1 Calculate hash for blkAAA (we don't need to calculate hash directly for "merged mining" chains as soon as they can accept PoW from "donor")
3.2 Compare hash with difficulty for AAA, XXX and ZZZ.
3.3 Submit block to corresponding network if difficulty is sufficient
3.4 Go to 3.1

Does that mean that the blkAAA will be put in the blockchain of coin XXX ?

If yes that’s a problem space wise, if no how do you check it's correct ?

JPSelzer

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World's First Crowd Owned Cryptocurrency Exchange

Quote from: Cheesus on April 26, 2014, 06:36:20 AM

But you will gain the reward from both chains, aren’t you? I don’t understand it fully but from my side mining 2 chains is better than mining 1. Even if the difficulty is going up.

So, currently I support MM implementation.

I think, it’s a good idea. BCN has fairly stable exchange rate, moreover we solve 2 problems. First is the fear of closed community and the second one is the fear of new coin with untrusted (now) algorithm (MRO has no normal course or clear system of work).

It’s no difference for our computing power to receive MRO or MRO + BCN. Don’t forget, that we are talking about money and this option will brings a real benefit for us. So, why should we abandon this function?

And if the problem is in "policy" and developers disagreements, then why miners have to suffer?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: SlyWax on April 26, 2014, 03:48:50 PM

- Conlusion :
Without Merged mining, you can chose to have either 4 BytecoinB or 4 MoneroB.
With Merged mining, you will have 2 BytecoinB and 2 MoneroB.

- Side note :
With this example it's easy to understand why (if you are a rational economic agent) you don't have the choice to not do merged mining if its available (you will just lose 2 BytecoinB).

So if you think Bytecoin was ninja mined and you don't want to validate that with your hash power, you better not want merged mining to be implemented in Monero.

Great analysis and example SlyWax. I would add that without merged mining in your example you still have the choice to get 2 BytecoinB and 2 MoneroB, just mine each one for half the time, and that's what you get. If you have two miners, split them up, otherwise mine one coin for an hour and then switch to the other coin for an hour.

Merged mining gives no additional choice, it only takes away a choice, as you explained above.

SlyWax

sr. member

Activity: 248

Merit: 251

Let me explain this with a simple example (we consider the blocktime is the same for each chain):

Let's say there is 20 peoples mining with the same hardware
They are mining for the duration of 40 blocks.
So 40 blocks of Bytecoin will be produced (noted : BytecoinB)
So 40 blocks of Monero will be produced (noted : MoneroB)

- Without Merged Mining (current situation):
10 people are mining Bytecoin
10 people are mining Monero

On average, for 40 block in the blockchain, each user will get 4 blocks of the chain he mine (40/10).
So :
10 people get 4 BytecoinB
10 people get 4 MoneroB

- With Merged Mining :
20 people are merged mining Bytecoin and Monero

On average, for 40 block in the blockchain, each user will get 2 blocks of each chain (40/20).
So :
20 people get 2 BytecoinB
20 people get 2 MoneroB

- Conlusion :
Without Merged mining, you can chose to have either 4 BytecoinB or 4 MoneroB.
With Merged mining, you will have 2 BytecoinB and 2 MoneroB.

- Side note :
With this example it's easy to understand why (if you are a rational economic agent) you don't have the choice to not do merged mining if its available (you will just lose 2 BytecoinB).

So if you think Bytecoin was ninja mined and you don't want to validate that with your hash power, you better not want merged mining to be implemented in Monero.

SlyWax.

EndlessWin

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Activity: 139

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Quote from: sshapiroNJ on April 26, 2014, 02:31:25 PM

Quote from: thankful_for_today on April 26, 2014, 10:08:02 AM

Quote from: tacotime on April 26, 2014, 10:05:14 AM

Just for everyone to be sure,

if you retrieved the source code from github lately and compiled it, you are automatically voting for merged mining. You can tell by looking at cryptonote_config.h in /src/

SUPPORT merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     1

AGAINST merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     0

That's right. Results will be calculated starting from the moment an explicit voting option will be provided.

What to do in case I have Linux ? As far as I understood there is no Linux ver which support merged mining, am I right?
I am not a programmer and not capable to create binaries

there is a How-To thread with the linux compile instructions: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bcn-bytecoin-not-a-bitcoin-fork-how-to-544715

in order to vote for the mm you will have to compile newest version.

sshapiroNJ

newbie

Activity: 55

Merit: 0

Quote from: thankful_for_today on April 26, 2014, 10:08:02 AM

Quote from: tacotime on April 26, 2014, 10:05:14 AM

Just for everyone to be sure,

if you retrieved the source code from github lately and compiled it, you are automatically voting for merged mining. You can tell by looking at cryptonote_config.h in /src/

SUPPORT merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     1

AGAINST merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     0

That's right. Results will be calculated starting from the moment an explicit voting option will be provided.

What to do in case I have Linux ? As far as I understood there is no Linux ver which support merged mining, am I right?
I am not a programmer and not capable to create binaries

cyrpi4

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

Merged mining is basically a freeroll since it won't need more resource.

Maybe I get it wrong but, IMO, MM help to use already found block to find block in another coin, which means that your chance to find blocks in both is a lit bit increasing.

TonyZX

member

Activity: 101

Merit: 10

As a trader I only support merged mining as if this would increase the amount of coins when there would be rather more people willing to join mining and you and I would have more coins to exchange on BTC.

I see what people are trying to tell here - that there is no reason for doing this, that there is no profit as it's gonna be the same situation (no saving energy, no extra reward) , but if it doesn't heart when why shall be against it?

I would vote for MM ! I encourage you to support MM!

Fredz91

member

Activity: 60

Merit: 10

I don't know why people set aggressive towards MM

I doubt namecoin is good example to compare with.
As it was told Namecoin was smaller in compare with Bitcoin and the result was not visible

Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2014, 07:39:32 AM

... namecoin was so much smaller than bitcoin this effect was likely negligible.

BitMonero, on the contrary, has already great increases in number of miners.
I support idea of MM as there is a possibility to different way of evolution for both coins just because of their different features.
As far as I know, BitMonero has shorter block time which make this coin make faster transactions and that causes differentiation in finding another block - so the chance of finding new block in both chains is becoming more unpredictable. And no need to mention that mining reward from two coins is better then reward from one coin.

IMHO, the point is if you can get more reward without extra effort when why not to get additional reward?

If I miss the point - could you please tell me what exactly is wrong about MM?

thankful_for_today

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 101

Quote from: tacotime on April 26, 2014, 10:05:14 AM

Just for everyone to be sure,

if you retrieved the source code from github lately and compiled it, you are automatically voting for merged mining. You can tell by looking at cryptonote_config.h in /src/

SUPPORT merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     1

AGAINST merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     0

That's right. Results will be calculated starting from the moment an explicit voting option will be provided.

tacotime

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1005

Just for everyone to be sure,

if you retrieved the source code from github lately and compiled it, you are automatically voting for merged mining. You can tell by looking at cryptonote_config.h in /src/

SUPPORT merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     1

AGAINST merged mining:

Code:

#define CURRENT_BLOCK_MINOR_VERSION                     0

amphibian

member

Activity: 210

Merit: 10

I've implemented merged mining code for BitMonero (I work with thankful_for_today). I see that community is against MM and I will start my own currency based on CryptoNote/BitMonero with merged mining: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annfcn-fantomcoin-cn-based-currency-with-merged-mining-launched-now-585611

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:53:00 AM

Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2014, 08:44:40 AM

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:41:50 AM

Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2014, 08:23:21 AM

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:08:21 AM

What do I do to vote? Linux

If you want to vote against, do nothing and do not upgrade your nodes.

If you want to vote for, you can perhaps just upgrade to the current version from github, although TFT said he would be changing it to require some explicit action to vote, instead of treating everyone who newly downloads or upgrades as voting "for" by default.

OK thanks. Then I do nothing. Where is updated code for linux compile? I don't see.

Precompiled? I'm not sure. I always build my own

I always compile also. Just not see any update on github to source.

Look in commits

mickey_miner

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Activity: 910

Merit: 250

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Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2014, 08:44:40 AM

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:41:50 AM

Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2014, 08:23:21 AM

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:08:21 AM

What do I do to vote? Linux

If you want to vote against, do nothing and do not upgrade your nodes.

If you want to vote for, you can perhaps just upgrade to the current version from github, although TFT said he would be changing it to require some explicit action to vote, instead of treating everyone who newly downloads or upgrades as voting "for" by default.

OK thanks. Then I do nothing. Where is updated code for linux compile? I don't see.

Precompiled? I'm not sure. I always build my own

I always compile also. Just not see any update on github to source.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:41:50 AM

Quote from: smooth on April 26, 2014, 08:23:21 AM

Quote from: mickey_miner on April 26, 2014, 08:08:21 AM

What do I do to vote? Linux

If you want to vote against, do nothing and do not upgrade your nodes.

If you want to vote for, you can perhaps just upgrade to the current version from github, although TFT said he would be changing it to require some explicit action to vote, instead of treating everyone who newly downloads or upgrades as voting "for" by default.

OK thanks. Then I do nothing. Where is updated code for linux compile? I don't see.

Precompiled? I'm not sure. I always build my own.

Topic: [BMR] Merged mining in BitMonero (proposal) - page 2. (Read 5249 times)