Boycott GHASH.IO/CEX.IO permanently - page 2.

cloverme

legendary

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SpacePirate.io

Quote from: Bitsaurus on June 18, 2014, 04:54:01 PM

Blatantly wrong. If 2 people are mining on a small pool with 600MH/s (say 1 USB miner stick each) and you happen to solve a block each person gets 12.5BTC, an amount you would never see if you were on a big pool.

Only thing big pools aid with is decreased risk of variance. You don't make any more money mining with in the big pond.

Yes, you're 100% right. 1 miner can solve a block and get the reward no matter what hashing power they have, even a 1gh/s usb miner. Now, in reality, the more hashes you process per second, the likelihood (not probability) of you solving a block is greater. I used p2pool for a week and earned 45% less BTC than I earned with the same hashing power using ghash.
Bottom line is p2pool is pplns plus a % fee. Oh wait, I forgot the 0.5% subsidy a node gets for the solved block. Roll Eyes

p2pool is not popular because it suffers from the fact that miners will always act in a way to directly maximize their profits. We can cry in our cups all day about 51% and how p2pool should be this amazing solution. However at the end of the day, it's just less money in the miners pocket.

sukamasoto

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1006

Black Panther

if you think that causes them to boycott
cex.io in my opinion not the right choice to make cloud GHS mining as prices can change at any time,
cex.io if I do not think the cloud point extraction but more trading to GHS

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Over the same period of time, mining on a small vs large pool (with the same fee) gives you statistically the same amount of payout.

P2Pool is the only pool that supports the main idea behind Bitcoin: decentralisation.

Bitsaurus

hero member

Activity: 873

Merit: 1007

Quote from: cloverme on June 18, 2014, 04:47:06 PM

Personally, I don't think ghash going to attempt a 51% attack. I'm more concerned with the large private pools out there, granted they don't have 45Ph/s to do a 51% yet, but in the coming months, who knows what someone with enough private cash might do. Ghash would have to create a large forked block chain with all the petahashes at their disposal and the evidence of that would be pretty clear.

From a mining perspective, since PPS has pretty much gone away, you have to throw your hashes at the pool that solving the most blocks otherwise you won't make as much money. Less blocks solved by the pool = less money. If btcguild started PPS again, I'd go back to them, but they stopped PPS, so you need to go with who's going to pay the most for the hashes. P2Pool was awful, I took a 45% income hit when I gave it a try. Maybe in the future when (or if) fees kick in, but right now p2pool doesn't pay like the larger pools, so there's little point. In short, if PPS comes back into the play, great, otherwise there's no incentive to move out of a large pool.

Blatantly wrong. If 2 people are mining on a small pool with 600MH/s (say 1 USB miner stick each) and you happen to solve a block each person gets 12.5BTC, an amount you would never see if you were on a big pool.

Only thing big pools aid with is decreased risk of variance. You don't make any more money mining with in the big pond.

Bitsaurus

hero member

Activity: 873

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Collider on June 18, 2014, 04:38:00 PM

Quote from: Bitsaurus on June 18, 2014, 04:16:42 PM

So basically you want somebody else to subsidize your mining overhead? You are willing to destroy BTC for the extra income gained from having 1% less fee? how shortsighted are you fools?

So other than having the ability to sell miner's hashes through CEX.IO, how extra is ghash.io benefiting from this? Care to question that? You think they're offering the pool from some sort of benevolent or altruistic view towards miners?

You don't have to be a cynic to understand that such behavior is not seen in the business world. Something doesn't smell right. The fact you peons are willing to overlook that coincides with the fact you are late bandwagoner Roll Eyes

No, I am saying the longterm solution is creating awesome pools with nice payout systems.

Eligius works with 0% fees just fine.

At the end of the day the "consumer" decides on which service to use. He votes with his choice for the model he likes most. That vote should be respected.

I am not willing to destroy anything, as I am not the destroyer. Even a 51% pool doesn´t destroy anything without malicious intent.

As explained, the pool would first have to withhold a large number of blocks from the network to then submit them at once, verifying each block on its own and creating a new sidechain,
which would then become the main chain.

The whole concept of decentralization is that you don't have to trust or rely on any 1 agency. There is no Federal Reserve deciding fiscal policy. Just miners who decide by majority which protocol to follow.

When somebody acquires 51% you now have to trust that they will have good intentions and not use their power maliciously (as we have seen with the greedy banksters around the world). Ghash.io has already shown once that they were willing to double spend. The warnings were made before the first 51% event and still they double spent.

If they control 6 blocks in a row and 51% of the power they essentially can throw away any work submitted by other pools or solo individuals. Essentially rendering them judge, jury, executioner.

I cannot blame the pool ops for this. Eleuthria, wizkid, and at one time Slush ran better pools than anything ghash.io could hope to become. The better pool is not fancy graphics or highest payout. It's the one where the pool op is responsible to the Bitcoin community. Ghash.io has shirked that responsibility from day 1, and apparently mindless peons support that in their avarice.

cloverme

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1057

SpacePirate.io

Personally, I don't think ghash going to attempt a 51% attack. I'm more concerned with the large private pools out there, granted they don't have 45Ph/s to do a 51% yet, but in the coming months, who knows what someone with enough private cash might do. Ghash would have to create a large forked block chain with all the petahashes at their disposal and the evidence of that would be pretty clear.

From a mining perspective, since PPS has pretty much gone away, you have to throw your hashes at the pool that solving the most blocks otherwise you won't make as much money. Less blocks solved by the pool = less money. If btcguild started PPS again, I'd go back to them, but they stopped PPS, so you need to go with who's going to pay the most for the hashes. P2Pool was awful, I took a 45% income hit when I gave it a try. Maybe in the future when (or if) fees kick in, but right now p2pool doesn't pay like the larger pools, so there's little point. In short, if PPS comes back into the play, great, otherwise there's no incentive to move out of a large pool.

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bitsaurus on June 18, 2014, 04:16:42 PM

So basically you want somebody else to subsidize your mining overhead? You are willing to destroy BTC for the extra income gained from having 1% less fee? how shortsighted are you fools?

So other than having the ability to sell miner's hashes through CEX.IO, how extra is ghash.io benefiting from this? Care to question that? You think they're offering the pool from some sort of benevolent or altruistic view towards miners?

You don't have to be a cynic to understand that such behavior is not seen in the business world. Something doesn't smell right. The fact you peons are willing to overlook that coincides with the fact you are late bandwagoner Roll Eyes

No, I am saying the longterm solution is creating awesome pools with nice payout systems.

Eligius works with 0% fees just fine.

At the end of the day the "consumer" decides on which service to use. He votes with his choice for the model he likes most. That vote should be respected.

I am not willing to destroy anything, as I am not the destroyer. Even a 51% pool doesn´t destroy anything without malicious intent.

As explained, the pool would first have to withhold a large number of blocks from the network to then submit them at once, verifying each block on its own and creating a new sidechain,
which would then become the main chain.

Bitsaurus

hero member

Activity: 873

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Collider on June 18, 2014, 01:08:59 PM

The longterm solution can´t be "boycott pool X"

The different pools have to improve to get their service up to the level of GH.io, not the other way around.

That means merged mining atleast NMC, 0% pool cost, TX cost payout etc.

Also, for 51% attacks a pool would need to WITHHOLD a large number of blocks from the network, building a side chain which it can verify with its own hash power.
As long as GH.io pools` blocks show up fairly regularly, there is no reason to worry.

So basically you want somebody else to subsidize your mining overhead? You are willing to destroy BTC for the extra income gained from having 1% less fee? how shortsighted are you fools?

So other than having the ability to sell miner's hashes through CEX.IO, how extra is ghash.io benefiting from this? Care to question that? You think they're offering the pool from some sort of benevolent or altruistic view towards miners?

You don't have to be a cynic to understand that such behavior is not seen in the business world. Something doesn't smell right. The fact you peons are willing to overlook that coincides with the fact you are late bandwagoner Roll Eyes

MX450

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

Quote from: ChuckBuck on June 18, 2014, 12:43:37 PM

Quote from: MX450 on June 18, 2014, 12:25:05 PM

The problem is that no one matches cex.io's service.

Cex.io's totally up to date.

The others are living in the stone age...

What's wrong with BTCGuild? I've been mining there since December, and it's always up. If there's any outages or downtime it's for like a couple minutes tops.

Stable as a motherf#cka.

I'm not talking about up or down time but the ease of access to trade or sell giga hashes with bitcoins.

That you physically don't need to have a miner is mindblowing and no other pool seem to copy this idea.

It's all a matter of time when physical mining will be impossible for the individual.

Cloud mining is the future and I think the major pools should addopt it due to 51.

You really need to have a flexible mindset in this business.

P.S. besides for clouds I think BTCGuild is the 2nd best after cex.io/ghash.io.

Collider

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

The longterm solution can´t be "boycott pool X"

The different pools have to improve to get their service up to the level of GH.io, not the other way around.

That means merged mining atleast NMC, 0% pool cost, TX cost payout etc.

Also, for 51% attacks a pool would need to WITHHOLD a large number of blocks from the network, building a side chain which it can verify with its own hash power.
As long as GH.io pools` blocks show up fairly regularly, there is no reason to worry.

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Quote from: boliu on June 18, 2014, 12:51:07 PM

Quote from: ChuckBuck on June 18, 2014, 12:04:51 PM

Quote from: boliu on June 18, 2014, 11:57:40 AM

if all people leave ghash, where will the go?

better off to have a 51% ghash, then a 51% unknown.

BTCGuild, Eligius, Slush, Bitminer, Multipool, F2Pool, P2Pool

Yes, then you will have the problem of BTCGuild having 51%.

Unlikely. Both Eligius and BTCGuild have always been in the low to mid teens at their highest, and are both very fair pools.

Plus, that Eleuthria guy seems like a stand up guy. Cool

boliu

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

6th BTC reached. Thank you for your support

Quote from: ChuckBuck on June 18, 2014, 12:04:51 PM

Quote from: boliu on June 18, 2014, 11:57:40 AM

if all people leave ghash, where will the go?

better off to have a 51% ghash, then a 51% unknown.

BTCGuild, Eligius, Slush, Bitminer, Multipool, F2Pool, P2Pool

Yes, then you will have the problem of BTCGuild having 51%.

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Quote from: MX450 on June 18, 2014, 12:25:05 PM

The problem is that no one matches cex.io's service.

Cex.io's totally up to date.

The others are living in the stone age...

What's wrong with BTCGuild? I've been mining there since December, and it's always up. If there's any outages or downtime it's for like a couple minutes tops.

Stable as a motherf#cka.

MX450

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

The problem is that no one matches cex.io's service.

Cex.io's totally up to date.

The others are living in the stone age...

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Quote from: boliu on June 18, 2014, 11:57:40 AM

if all people leave ghash, where will the go?

better off to have a 51% ghash, then a 51% unknown.

BTCGuild, Eligius, Slush, Bitminer, Multipool, F2Pool, P2Pool

boliu

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 250

6th BTC reached. Thank you for your support

if all people leave ghash, where will the go?

better off to have a 51% ghash, then a 51% unknown.

cosmicapex

member

Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Quote from: russokai on June 12, 2014, 01:52:46 PM

Someone else just posted a thread similar to this one, but it bears repeating. We need to have one or two of these type threads on the front page EVERY DAY until we beat back this corrupt organization that can utterly destroy bitcoin if we aren't careful. (And ok can't destroy it but can irreparably harm it and cause the price to drop 80% or more overnight).

The bitcoin community needs to take this issue MUCH more seriously. It's not an area where we can afford to be lazy about....or try to be polite and "nicely" as them to please don't do a 50% attack...over and over and over.

Boycott them permanently and encourage others to do the same and keep doing so, well into the future.

I encourage others to post threads like this too.

And here is a very telling link:
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/bitcoin-mining-pool-ghash-io-is-unapologetic-risk-theoretical-51-attack/2014/06/12

I've replied to other threads like this one with the same response.

ghash has better features than other pools and doesn't rape you with fees & cex.io iteself is a pretty unique service and other similar services to it that I've seen are simply horse shit in comparison.

So unless you can find a way for humans not to be greedy, the solution is for other pools & cloud mining companies to step up their game.

Also I think these threads are utterly useless, bashing them is so childish.

Didldak

full member

Activity: 150

Merit: 100

Oh boy!

boycott by adding more hash power to other pools, thats it. Together we are strong, much stronger than ghash itself.

spazzdla

legendary

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I like slushies..

F GEO!

dlowings

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Quote from: whtchocla7e on June 17, 2014, 08:30:03 AM

I don't know if I'm in favor of this. The whole idea of bitcoin is growth and these guys are growing.

If we're going to prevent a legit business from operating, we might as well start tainting coins and implementing Mike Hearn's fancy pro-govt security features into the protocol...

you totally missed the boat… one of the goals IS growth, but an even BIGGER goal was decentralization …. You might want to get your slide deck right… I do not and will not use Ghash for this very reason.. having this much market share is not and will NEVER be good for BTC … anything over 35 is bad IMO . waiting until it got to 49 in order to pull the fire alarm was a BAD move for the community ...

Topic: Boycott GHASH.IO/CEX.IO permanently - page 2. (Read 4069 times)