BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth - page 2.

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 02:12:58 PM

The role of government is to create and protect institutions that make our society work. It's like an operating system and to run it you need energy. So we need to pay tax.
If you think your government does it wrong you should change your government or move to where you think it is done right. For one, start voting for sane people.

I would actually be in favor of giving Libertarians some useless shit-hole part of the country (e.g., LA, or better yet some part of Florida so the stench isn't so obnoxious and nuclear fallout from their melted down power plants has a chance to settle given the prevailing wind patterns) and have them move there and do their own thing. If they want back in to a functional society, they have to come back broke and sign a statement promising never to bitch about reasonable taxes rates and regulations again.

mobodick

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Kazu on April 05, 2013, 12:33:38 PM

Quote from: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 12:07:47 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on April 04, 2013, 04:58:50 PM

Quote from: Lethos on April 04, 2013, 05:41:29 AM

I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility.
By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations.

And why exactly is 'government' a synonym for 'society'?
I fail to understand how its logical that government is able to extract what is essentially rent for participating in society. I mean, its one thing to pay your money into a commune or government to pay for roads & bridge or the like, as well as a few essential services & regulatory bodies. Its something completely different when you are paying huge portions of your money to the government and their budget ends up looking like this:
http://www.federalbudget.com/

The role of government is to create and protect institutions that make our society work. It's like an operating system and to run it you need energy. So we need to pay tax.
If you think your government does it wrong you should change your government or move to where you think it is done right. For one, start voting for sane people.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

That's... intense.

DataPlumber

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: benjamindees on April 04, 2013, 04:51:52 PM

Quote from: Kazu on April 04, 2013, 02:27:48 PM

So, does anybody know where the 32 trillion came from?

It's people. Federal Reserve Notes is people.

For the record, at least one person LOL'ed (literally!) at your Soylent Green reference

Qoheleth

legendary

Activity: 960

Merit: 1028

Spurn wild goose chases. Seek that which endures.

Quote from: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 12:07:47 PM

If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility.
By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations.

I'm not saying I disagree with you.

But here's a question: if you don't like the rules of the society in which you live, what's your recourse? Move to another society? That presumes that there's another preextant nation which better suits your tastes, and even then, immigration laws, language barriers, and the sheer cost of moving from place to place make that a difficult and painful process, for an uncertain result. Try to change the laws of the country you're in? If you don't have money or fame to force the issue, you need the charisma to get enough people to agree with you that the initiative starts being noticeable and influential at the societal scale (and that's assuming the democratic apparatus works as advertised). Find a few like-minded people and found your own society? Right now, for a country to exist it needs land, and unless you want to live between Egypt and Syria, or have the collective capital to pile up rocks into an island, it's all spoken for.

I like the social contract idea - it makes me feel better about some of my other opinions. But a contract is only valid if everyone involved is a willing signatory. If you aren't willing to consent to the contract... shouldn't the society have an escape hatch?

Kazu

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 12:07:47 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on April 04, 2013, 04:58:50 PM

Quote from: Lethos on April 04, 2013, 05:41:29 AM

I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility.
By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations.

And why exactly is 'government' a synonym for 'society'?
I fail to understand how its logical that government is able to extract what is essentially rent for participating in society. I mean, its one thing to pay your money into a commune or government to pay for roads & bridge or the like, as well as a few essential services & regulatory bodies. Its something completely different when you are paying huge portions of your money to the government and their budget ends up looking like this:
http://www.federalbudget.com/

mobodick

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: evoorhees on April 04, 2013, 04:58:50 PM

Quote from: Lethos on April 04, 2013, 05:41:29 AM

I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

If said group of people made it possible for you to acquire said property then you owe them. If your capital requires some part of society to exist then you owe society for giving you that possibility.
By participating and profiting in society and economy you accept the obligations.

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: World on April 05, 2013, 09:15:34 AM

World need new redistribution of wealth a peaceful ways.

That is actually a big selling point of crypto-currencies to me. When the GINI gets to high in a PM or fiat backed monetary system, out come the pitchforks and riot police. Often enough literally. In a free market crypto-currency system, out comes a more appealing codebase. Or at least that is one way I could see things playing out.

edit: And 'riot police' are often upgraded to 'death squads' as the situation requires. Of course 'it couldn't happen here'...

axus

full member

Activity: 129

Merit: 100

Quote from: evoorhees on April 04, 2013, 04:58:50 PM

Quote from: Lethos on April 04, 2013, 05:41:29 AM

I'm not saying seizure of funds is right, but neither is tax evasion

Tax evasion is absolutely morally justified. What is not justified, is theft.

People are justified in doing what they can to avoid wanton theft of their property by violent gangs calling themselves government. The fact that a group of people around you have voted for you to surrender your property is not moral justification for the taking of that property.

The funny part is, a huge part of offshore secret wealth IS the result of wanton theft.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 09:55:06 AM

Quote from: notme on April 04, 2013, 11:27:02 PM

Quote from: malevolent on April 04, 2013, 10:29:58 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.
Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here).

Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations.

The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me.

Yep. People tell themselves X group are horrible people, then every time they see a horrible person they say, oh, he must belong to group X.

Piper67

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1001

Quote from: mobodick on April 05, 2013, 09:55:06 AM

Quote from: notme on April 04, 2013, 11:27:02 PM

Quote from: malevolent on April 04, 2013, 10:29:58 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.
Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here).

Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations.

The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me.

Left-right stopped meaning anything about 20 years ago.

mobodick

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: notme on April 04, 2013, 11:27:02 PM

Quote from: malevolent on April 04, 2013, 10:29:58 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.
Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here).

Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations.

The whole left-right dichotomy is broken if you ask me.

World

hero member

Activity: 743

Merit: 500

World need new redistribution of wealth a peaceful ways.

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: malevolent on April 04, 2013, 10:29:58 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was nothing or not much in there but it was only announced to scare some people.

If I were Assange, and had a fair amount of material to work with, what that file would contain would be some goodies and whole bunch of other encrypted files with interesting sounding names. Also, of course, some dead-man code which would progressively release passwords until the pain stopped. The pain for Assange, that is.

XXthetimeisnowXX

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

a wolf in sheeps clothing. suckerfish

Quote from: Mark Oates on April 04, 2013, 04:02:31 AM

This is good because it'll throw some cold water on the blazing flame of press that has been on bitcoin.

We need to cool down for awhile. Sad

I quite agree with this statement!!! i like the growth but maybe just a dollar a day avrage with a couple of swings up and a few swings down and a few small bursts. this rocket will run out of fuel and or crash and burn with way to long to regain.

right now having a good rep and not "that currency that went from nothing to a thousand to nothing in a year? ya i dont want any art of that".

I do want it to definitely grow.

a happy medium.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: malevolent on April 04, 2013, 10:29:58 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.
Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here).

Sounds to me like you are both making gross generalizations.

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1724

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.
Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

That's funny, the wealthy and intelligent people that I know are either right-wing or libertarian and those with the least money, state-dependent are usually more left-wing. Some of them are middle class, but none of the wealthy people that I know or have met personally are left-wing (those left-wingers who earned the money due to cronyism, nepotism or corruption which is not a rare occurence in my country are not counted here).

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was nothing or not much in there but it was only announced to scare some people.

Bimmerhead

legendary

Activity: 1291

Merit: 1000

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.

Really? Like those salt-of-the-earth Occupy types?

BTC Books

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: tvbcof on April 04, 2013, 08:59:24 PM

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.

Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

Artful, tvbcof. Cheesy

And I wonder if this might have been sparked - or even perhaps be a part of - Assange's insurance. We've all learned quite a bit in the past few years about how - and especially how not - to release massively damaging information to the public. It's a very interesting event.

tvbcof

legendary

Activity: 4760

Merit: 1283

Quote from: Bimmerhead on April 04, 2013, 08:47:35 PM

When the names are finally released it will be fascinating to see all the (champagne) socialists on there. No doubt the lefties will make up the bulk of the list, but "capitalism" will get the rap.
...

Would not surprise me. Most of the highly intelligent people I know are pretty left-wing, and it is easier to get ahead if one is bright. Most of the right wingers I know are dolts who are in debt up to their eyebrows. OTOH, lots of silver-spoon kids grow up to be right-wingers also and they may account for the bulk of the capital.

Now left-wing wealthy folks are probably less inclined to be tax cheats, but there will certainly be many exceptions to the rule.

If Assange is behind this, it could well be his get-out-of-jail-free card. It makes me again wonder what might be in 'insurance.aes256'

Topic: BREAKING-LEAK:Identities+emails of rich hiding cash offshore $32trillion's worth - page 2. (Read 15114 times)