Topic: BRICS Pay going operational is a major step in dedollarisation (Read 1731 times)

He will definitely try but he will also be kicked in the face with the new reality of this world. We are in Word War 5 now (3 was the Cold War between US and USSR, 4 was unipolar world with US waging War of Terror on the world) and today any US aggression will be met with retaliation.

Take the recent hits exchanged between US and China.
Basically US puts restrictions on semiconductors exports to China and China retaliates hard by banned all rare material exports (gallium, germanium, antimony) that are required in manufacturing semiconductors to US.

Or the situation in Syria. The moment US backed terrorists moved in on Syria and destabilized the region which needs stability and security for Chinese future ground based trade route (Road and Belt thing), the Chinese military retaliated by moving in on Taiwan which is their sea based trade route/alternative.
I don't know if they'll invade now but look how that escalated quickly in retaliation to what US did in Syria. They say that is the largest naval deployment by China in decades.

Because it is easier said than done.
Governments want full control, something they can not have if they use bitcoin. Not similar to when they print their own money and have their own centralized payment system like SWIFT or BRICS-Pay.

Most importantly they can't control the price of bitcoin due to its volatility, not to mention bitcoin is still small. For example we can't expect China to put their $3.2 trillion foreign exchange reserves in bitcoin that is only $2 trillion big and has a history of big crashes like -85%.

That makes it slow...

Tell me please - and what logic are you using that you conclude that by replacing the dollar with some empirical “BRICS single currency”, the prices of goods will become lower ?! It is very interesting to hear your logical reasoning that led to this !

PS Here is another nuance - the value of a single currency BRICS - very doubtful in terms of reality, because the union consists of countries with completely different levels of economic development, opportunities, and prospects. How its value will be influenced, for example, by India and China (developed and promising economies), and unnecessary “balast”, such as the economies of Iran and Russia. such as the economies of Iran and Russia?

I believe that in the near future the dollar will only strengthen against all other national currencies. As for the fact that the modern economic system is built on growth - here, I think, it is necessary to make a reservation.

Economic growth and scientific and technological progress are a direct consequence of the growth of the world's population. However, in the 21st century, this growth will gradually slow down. This is a huge challenge for humanity and it is not yet clear how humanity will cope with this challenge.

As for BRICS, I agree with the thesis that the countries included in this union are too different.

They will most likely not be able to achieve either their tactical or, especially, their strategic goals.

Wishful thinking
The countries united in BRICS don't stand on a similar common ground, have little in common. They even disagree on dedollarasation.
Inflation is a necessary evil as we are living in a society build on growth

I don't know if the dream of BRICS will be actualized. Though I can't predict the international cool war. Some countries are asking those which are already in the block to assist them attain the membership to the block but the newly elected president of US void to deal with any member country in the block. I don't know how it will be and if he tries things might go wrong and war upon war will happen in the world and that might lead to the third world war.

But if this new Polar currency system can work well, inflation in the international level might reduce because they will be a competition in the international market of currency domination. And people will go for cheaper one because their goods will be cheaper with the cheaper exchange rate currency.

Absolutely agree !  This is when some countries, violating all agreements, organizing world terror, including economic terror, attack other countries, organize genocide there, and then when sanctions are imposed against them start squealing about injustice and rejection of the dollar, but in every possible way try to get this dollar for their resources Or, for example, when they gather the BRICS meeting, they demand dollars from the participants instead of rubles, yuan or rupees Yes, you are right, I agree
But back to what some of these pariahs are fighting against:
“The dollar has two important functions that make it the world's premier currency.
First, the dollar is a reserve currency. Those who have extra money store it in it.
Second, the dollar is a settlement currency. Not only Americans but the whole world pays for goods and services in it.
The dollar's position as a settlement currency is strengthening despite active attempts by China, Russia, Brazil, India and other emerging economies to trade in rupees and yuan.
By the end of last year, the world had accumulated about $12 trillion equivalent in reserves. Almost 60% are held in dollars, about 20% in euros. The yuan's share is 3%, less than the Japanese yen and the British pound (5% each).”

Regarding the decline of settlements in the dollar - I partly agree, it's a fact. But it is necessary to understand what is the real reason for this observation ! One of the key reasons is the withdrawal of oil and gas supplies from a developed market, from a rogue country that now has to sell most of it for yuan and rupees. That's hundreds of billions of dollars, though no one pays for it in dollars. China doesn't pay for it directly either, and most of its goods are supplied to offset some of these amounts. That is, in essence, forcibly sells them. Some funds in yuan and rupees are blocked in Chinese and Indian banks. So the turnover in yuan has increased, the turnover in dollars has decreased by the same amount, but this is a specific market. Look at the distribution of dollars in ZVR by countries - developed countries hold the total part of dollars. The rest are forced to keep in yuan and some other currencies, but not because they have given up the dollar, but because they simply cannot afford it. So it's simple, no magic here
PS After the restoration of normal life in Syria, it is likely that gas from Qatar will go to the EU, and its value will be assessed not in yuan, but in stable currencies - dollar or euro. By the way, the reason for the internal conflict in Syria, which finally ended, was an attempt to remove competitors for gas supplies to the EU, or rather to prevent the organization of these supplies. For whom they were competitors - think for yourself

You don't think he'll impose tariffs? In his previous presidency he did, I don't see why this time it would be any different.

I just don't understand why this hasn't happened already. Is it ignorance, or arrogance? The only justification to this is that they don't want to make it too apparent that they're de-dollarizing themselves. (Dumping their reserves for bitcoin would be the equivalent of saying that the US dollar is worse than bitcoin.)

India is doing all it can to balance its relationship with the West and BRICS nations. But I think they are secretly finding alternatives to dollars in it's trade relationship with other countries. Before now my country traded with India mainly with the dollars but things are changing.
India, Nigeria agree to early conclusion of local currency settlement system agreement.

The fact that dollar that was once used for 80%-90% of the world trades is now only used for about 50% of it shows that dedollarisation is not coming, it has already started... a while ago.

Basically, there is nothing those countries have in common but not being in the US or in the EU.
They have different continents, climates, languages, economies. Political regimes, civil rights recognition and how don't know how many other aspects.
They will never have a common currency, but Bitcoin, when hyperbitcoinisation comes.

Where do they dump it?
Russia is not using the few dollars they hold for trading with the Chinese.
So the trade between China and Russia is in Yuan - Rubles.
A few countries which sold their products in barter which they otherwise could not have sold.

So far it is just talk that the dedollarisation is coming.
Its still a long way towards losing the reserve status.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/de-dollarization-what-happens-if-the-dollar-loses-reserve-status

Welcome to politics where politicians say all kinds of things that are not real
This is not new either. From day one BRICS members were saying they don't want to dump the dollar. That doesn't change the fact that they are dumping it.

When going against a rogue regime that has a history of bombing multiple countries that wanted to dump the dollar (like Libya and Iraq), a wise politician never repeats their mistake. Instead they dump the dollar while saying otherwise

Dedollarization ?! What dedollarization!? We're for the dollar!

"There has been no decision by the so-called BRICS block about creating a common currency to reduce usage of the dollar, India’s central bank chief said.

“BRICS currency was an idea raised by one of the members and was discussed but no decision has been taken,” Reserve Bank of India Governor Shaktikanta Das said in a post-policy briefing on Friday. “The geographical spread of the countries has also to be kept in mind, unlike the euro zone which has geographical contiguity...”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-06/india-says-no-decision-taken-on-brics-plan-that-rattled-trump

Slowly but surely dedollarisation is continuing and one of the reasons is exactly the option #1 that they try to enforce. But let me add some small comments on these options.

1) Trump is already threatening to set high tariffs on China which means high inflation in the US.
He also threatens to kick out the cheap work force from the US which also means high inflation in the US.
He also plans on reshoring (bringing production back to the US soil) which also means higher production costs which means inflation in the US.
Enforcing high tariffs on BRICS could result in more dedollarisation and even things like these countries (eg. China) dumping US treasury bonds which has the potential to crash the US economy.

I've got a feeling that either all these threats will remain empty words or he will be kicked in the face by the reality in less than a year.

2) I doubt they can do it covertly and buying 5 million bitcoins requires half a trillion dollars ($500 billion) at current price. Injecting such a large amount of money into the bitcoin market will raise the price significantly which will also create FOMO where people would also start panic buying bitcoin. All of a sudden it will cost them trillions to buy 5 million BTC which could shoot up to over a million bucks a piece!
On top of that, other countries could start feeling competitive and start buying bitcoin. China could suddenly decide they too need 5 million bitcoins, if not more. Them injecting billions or trillions into the market would also shoot the price up to the moon.

Meaning, not only US will not be able to stop BRICS that way, but also would force BRICS members to buy bitcoin themselves while the cost of such purchase would skyrocket making it increasingly difficult.
We suddenly see BRICS that has the most amount of oil, gas, lithium, other natural resources like rare metals, most gold, population, geography, etc. also has the most bitcoin and bitcoin hashrate in that competition!

Interesting statistics: https://watcher.guru/news/brics-global-us-dollar-payments-fall-below-50.

The way I see it is, the US is confronted with two options, in order to maintain their dominance.

- Option 1: Tariffs on BRICS countries. Not necessarily a viable option, but certainly the most favorable by Trump.
- Option 2: Convert their reserve currency holdings into bitcoin, before the BRICS countries do it. Owning more than 5 million bitcoin would put them back to the position they had when WW2 ended.

I bet that We will get to hyper-bicoinisation before the BRICS agree on a single monetary union.
This thing has gone around many times in the past and has always failed.
There is no way such different countries will be able to use a single unit of account.

Teeny Tiny "countries" that are more like a village with a couple of thousand population are not really counted in anything except when US wants to use them for voting in the UN.
Additionally BRICS members are about 9 or 10 countries not 40, the rest are like observers who wish to join. And current BRICS at its current size has about half the entire world's resources, population, GDP, geography (land) and more. Which proves my point as well.

In that sense BRICS is similar to bitcoin! It is like saying in the cryptocurrency market, bitcoin is only one coin amongst tens of thousands of coins. But you can't even compare them since all of them combined can't compete with bitcoin alone. Which is clear from market cap ratio as well even though majority of those altcoin have fake market cap with fake/premined supplies that are never in the market.

As I've said before, it is a long way to go but not as long as you think and not because of the reason you think. The main reason is the bureaucracy and politics mixed with some competition that is slowing the process down.

BRICS are about 40 Countries of roughly 200. Long way to go.
Its not the world even if you wish for it.

I hope you two realize that your discussion about how many people/countries use the dollar has nothing to do with dedollarisation

Dollar has been the most used currency globally because it was convenient. Exactly because of that convenience it will take so long to come up with an alternative. But it stopped being convenient a while ago when the US regime decided to weaponize it.

Did you read my last post here? Why is the US president able to threaten the world like that? What right does he have to tell other countries how to trade and with what payment system?
The reason is because dollar is used by all of these countries and such threats is the reason why the world decided to dump the dollar. In one word the reason is US regime's economic terrorism.

Think about it this way. Imagine the bank that you keep your money at started shutting down the account of one of your neighbors, practically stealing their money. Then they shut down another account from another one of your neighbors. Maybe they shut down accounts of some of your family members.
As you watch the bank steal other people's money, will you continue keeping your money in that bank that has been ripping off anybody you know? Or will you withdraw your money and use an alternative? Does the number of that bank's customers affect your decision?
The answer is very simple, it doesn't matter if that bank is the most popular in the world with the most number of customers. It is scamming people and to protect yourself, if you have half a brain you'd pull your money out and start using an "alternative"

That's what BRICS is. And that is why the world is dedollarising...
It is not going to be easy or fast but the world has no choice but to dump the dollar because of what I explained above.

My quote is text of wikipedia.
My point is that many people use the $ as payment, getting paid in $ and trade with it.
11 countries use the $ as legal tender. Venezuela would not work without the greenback. 

Your list is not showing reality. Even the Chinese living in Venezuela trade in the US Currency.