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Topic: Broadcasting the Blockchain (Read 10493 times)

legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
July 12, 2014, 05:55:38 PM
#53
Apparently a group in Finland has convinced the national TV broadcaster to test this out:

http://slashdot.org/submission/3694105/finnish-national-digital-tv-broadcaster-starts-sending-bitcoin-blockchain

Quote
We have found a partner who is able to cover costs for the pilot stage. The pilot stage will start in 1st of September, 2014 and last for 2 months. The broadcast area covers 95% of Finnish population, approximately 5 million people.

Quote
What is Kryptoradio?

Kryptoradio is a bitcoin data transmission system that

    transmits bitcoin transactions, blocks, and currency exchange data,
    does all this in real-time,
    uses terrestrial television (DVB-T) transmitters around the world.
    Bitcoins in the air, literally speaking.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
March 26, 2014, 04:13:18 PM
#52
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

You can retransmit blocks with decreasing frequency as they get older. If you miss recent blocks, wait a little while and you get another copy. If you missed old blocks, you may have to wait a long time to get them, but you will eventually get them.

With the 'naked block' protocol being considered, you don't even need this much.  Currently, all full clients require all the data in order to completely check every block for validity, but a "light client" doesn't require this kind of certainty.  Since it's unlikely that clients receiving updates via this method would be mining, complete blocks are not necessary.  What is necessary is a complete block header chain, which only weighs in at 4 mb per year; and the merkle tree for any blocks that contain transactions that concern the client itself.  While it would be ideal to broadcast those merkle trees with the block header (i.e. the naked block, all except the actual transactions) it would be profoundly silly to broadcast every single transaction complete.

How do you know who is using the service, if it is broadcast?  Sure you could require that clients register with the head end, but given the original claim (which I have not verified) that broadcasting the entire block chain can be done at 2400 baud,


The entire block header chain can be broadcast at 2400 baud, and individual clients can transact at 2400 baud.  This isn't remotely the same as participating in the bitcoin network as a full peer, and I'm pretty sure no one has claimed this.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
March 26, 2014, 04:04:51 PM
#51
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

You can retransmit blocks with decreasing frequency as they get older. If you miss recent blocks, wait a little while and you get another copy. If you missed old blocks, you may have to wait a long time to get them, but you will eventually get them.

With the 'naked block' protocol being considered, you don't even need this much.  Currently, all full clients require all the data in order to completely check every block for validity, but a "light client" doesn't require this kind of certainty.  Since it's unlikely that clients receiving updates via this method would be mining, complete blocks are not necessary.  What is necessary is a complete block header chain, which only weighs in at 4 mb per year; and the merkle tree for any blocks that contain transactions that concern the client itself.  While it would be ideal to broadcast those merkle trees with the block header (i.e. the naked block, all except the actual transactions) it would be profoundly silly to broadcast every single transaction complete.

How do you know who is using the service, if it is broadcast?  Sure you could require that clients register with the head end, but given the original claim (which I have not verified) that broadcasting the entire block chain can be done at 2400 baud, the broadcast service could be used by anyone and everyone passively without registering if it includes the entire block chain (or perhaps some pruned version of it). It is likely difficult to envision in advance all of the potential uses for such a service. Smart property comes to mind, for one thing.



legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
March 26, 2014, 03:55:39 PM
#50
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

You can retransmit blocks with decreasing frequency as they get older. If you miss recent blocks, wait a little while and you get another copy. If you missed old blocks, you may have to wait a long time to get them, but you will eventually get them.

With the 'naked block' protocol being considered, you don't even need this much.  Currently, all full clients require all the data in order to completely check every block for validity, but a "light client" doesn't require this kind of certainty.  Since it's unlikely that clients receiving updates via this method would be mining, complete blocks are not necessary.  What is necessary is a complete block header chain, which only weighs in at 4 mb per year; and the merkle tree for any blocks that contain transactions that concern the client itself.  While it would be ideal to broadcast those merkle trees with the block header (i.e. the naked block, all except the actual transactions) it would be profoundly silly to broadcast every single transaction complete.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
March 26, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
#49
Looks like someone is going to attempt this:

https://www.outernet.is/

Quote
By leveraging datacasting technology over a low-cost satellite constellation, Outernet is able to bypass censorship, ensure privacy, and offer a universally-accessible information service at no cost to global citizens. It's the modern version of shortwave radio, or BitTorrent from space.

Unfortunately, I can see some very real technical and legal issues with trying to do this as described.

First off, Wifi is possible in only two bands.  Since the higher N band is very new, and many smartphones still don't support it, I'm going to assume that the older B,G band is what they plan to use.  But there was a technical reason that this band was chosen at the time of development; namely that the B,G band was license free worldwide.  But why was that, since such license free technologies didn't really exist before Wifi itself?  Because the B,G band is the resonate frequency of hydrogen.  Thus, energy transmitted in this band is heavily attenuated by any water or hydrocarbons found in it's path, and was considered useless for distance communications.  This is still true, and has much to do with why Wifi is so poor at clear range.  It's also why this band is shared by every retail microwave that I know of, since food is pretty much all hydrocarbons and water.  While there wouldn't likely be much risk of hydrocarbons in the line of sight from low earth orbit, there would be much water.  On average, the Earth's atmosphere has enough water from space to sea level to equate to a 32 foot deep dive under the ocean's surface.  The amount of power that would be required to push through this and be receivable by common wifi hardware on the Earth's surface would be rediculous.

Second, there are also sound techincal reasons as to why wifi multicasting is not commonly used.  Mostly because wifi is a time-sharing technology that (generally) permits more than one unrelated connection to coexist on the same channel.  This is permitted because normal mode wifi requires that the hotspot 'listen' to it's own channel several times per second for other broadcasters trying to share the channel space.  This doesn't always work well, but it does work more often than most people realize.  However, a hotspot in space couldn't coordinate timesharing of all the hotspots in it's radio shadow even if it were possible for it to hear them.  In this case, the sat based signal would effectively 'jam' the chosen channel across the whole of it's radio shadow, and also be a violation of international communications treaties as a result.

Third, the licesne free broadcasting nature of the B,G band is limited to 'terrestrial' transmitters, and therefore doesn't apply to satillites at all.  A new treaty would be required to even permit such a license, since every country has max transmitter powers in the B,G band that would be WAY  what a sat would require.

While using the new N band would reduce the power requirements considerablely, the other two issues would still apply.  Perhaps a lower frequency license free band would work with modified FM band recievers, but I can't see a way around the international communications treaties regarding this.  Perhaps a broadcast stream that can switch around frequencies in the higher frequency shortwave bands would work, but the sat would have to be able to respond to the reflectivity of the ionosphere and changes in the critical frequency.  Most Shortwave broadcasters have to stay  the critical frequency so that their Earth bound transmitters can reflect their signal off of the F layer of the ionosphere, but what about a broadcaster in teh shortwave bands that deliberately stays above the critical frequency so that his signal is not reflected back into space?  Regardless, the data throughput woudl be low due to a narrow usable bandwidth and a particularly 'noisey' radio environment in those bands.


Wow, where to begin. First of all, B, G and N are protocols in the 802.11 family, There are two bands of frequency used by wifi 2.4 Ghz and 5.8Ghz, the latter being 802.11n only. Wifi technology relies on having two-way communication, it is not a broadcast type of comm. Satellite are sending a lot of power on microwave bands (6Ghz to 10Ghz) but your cellphone won't ever be able to rech the satellite. Second, the signal coming down is picked up by a dish, which is essentially focusing the RF energy. Your cellphone work because it is pushing it's signal to nearby towers, not a sat in space.

I suggest reading up on material from the American Radio Relay League, which has amazing content out there that explains all radiofrequency communications.

Enjoy

nirom

I wrote a rather lengthly response to this, but it  got destroyed by a database error.  In short, you're misreading my posts & I have long ago gone to their forum to correct their misconceptions about what is feasible.  They are now considering using Digital Radio Mondiale as their protocol, and I was thanked personally for that suggestion.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
March 26, 2014, 12:05:38 AM
#48
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

You can retransmit blocks with decreasing frequency as they get older. If you miss recent blocks, wait a little while and you get another copy. If you missed old blocks, you may have to wait a long time to get them, but you will eventually get them.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
March 25, 2014, 11:51:26 PM
#47
Looks like someone is going to attempt this:

https://www.outernet.is/

Quote
By leveraging datacasting technology over a low-cost satellite constellation, Outernet is able to bypass censorship, ensure privacy, and offer a universally-accessible information service at no cost to global citizens. It's the modern version of shortwave radio, or BitTorrent from space.

Unfortunately, I can see some very real technical and legal issues with trying to do this as described.

First off, Wifi is possible in only two bands.  Since the higher N band is very new, and many smartphones still don't support it, I'm going to assume that the older B,G band is what they plan to use.  But there was a technical reason that this band was chosen at the time of development; namely that the B,G band was license free worldwide.  But why was that, since such license free technologies didn't really exist before Wifi itself?  Because the B,G band is the resonate frequency of hydrogen.  Thus, energy transmitted in this band is heavily attenuated by any water or hydrocarbons found in it's path, and was considered useless for distance communications.  This is still true, and has much to do with why Wifi is so poor at clear range.  It's also why this band is shared by every retail microwave that I know of, since food is pretty much all hydrocarbons and water.  While there wouldn't likely be much risk of hydrocarbons in the line of sight from low earth orbit, there would be much water.  On average, the Earth's atmosphere has enough water from space to sea level to equate to a 32 foot deep dive under the ocean's surface.  The amount of power that would be required to push through this and be receivable by common wifi hardware on the Earth's surface would be rediculous.

Second, there are also sound techincal reasons as to why wifi multicasting is not commonly used.  Mostly because wifi is a time-sharing technology that (generally) permits more than one unrelated connection to coexist on the same channel.  This is permitted because normal mode wifi requires that the hotspot 'listen' to it's own channel several times per second for other broadcasters trying to share the channel space.  This doesn't always work well, but it does work more often than most people realize.  However, a hotspot in space couldn't coordinate timesharing of all the hotspots in it's radio shadow even if it were possible for it to hear them.  In this case, the sat based signal would effectively 'jam' the chosen channel across the whole of it's radio shadow, and also be a violation of international communications treaties as a result.

Third, the licesne free broadcasting nature of the B,G band is limited to 'terrestrial' transmitters, and therefore doesn't apply to satillites at all.  A new treaty would be required to even permit such a license, since every country has max transmitter powers in the B,G band that would be WAY  what a sat would require.

While using the new N band would reduce the power requirements considerablely, the other two issues would still apply.  Perhaps a lower frequency license free band would work with modified FM band recievers, but I can't see a way around the international communications treaties regarding this.  Perhaps a broadcast stream that can switch around frequencies in the higher frequency shortwave bands would work, but the sat would have to be able to respond to the reflectivity of the ionosphere and changes in the critical frequency.  Most Shortwave broadcasters have to stay  the critical frequency so that their Earth bound transmitters can reflect their signal off of the F layer of the ionosphere, but what about a broadcaster in teh shortwave bands that deliberately stays above the critical frequency so that his signal is not reflected back into space?  Regardless, the data throughput woudl be low due to a narrow usable bandwidth and a particularly 'noisey' radio environment in those bands.


Wow, where to begin. First of all, B, G and N are protocols in the 802.11 family, There are two bands of frequency used by wifi 2.4 Ghz and 5.8Ghz, the latter being 802.11n only. Wifi technology relies on having two-way communication, it is not a broadcast type of comm. Satellite are sending a lot of power on microwave bands (6Ghz to 10Ghz) but your cellphone won't ever be able to rech the satellite. Second, the signal coming down is picked up by a dish, which is essentially focusing the RF energy. Your cellphone work because it is pushing it's signal to nearby towers, not a sat in space.

I suggest reading up on material from the American Radio Relay League, which has amazing content out there that explains all radiofrequency communications.

Enjoy

nirom
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 11, 2014, 11:50:15 AM
#46
When people are saying the system is uni-direction they are not indicating that one can be a node without any other form of communication.  The "what if they miss a block" kinda misses the larger issue on OBVIOUSLY you need two way communication to transmit transactions.  Having 100% of blocks and no way to spend coins is equally useless.

The point was the SATELLITE link can be unidirectional.  Trying to make a bidirectional sat link is a pipe dream but likely it isn't necessary.

Sat ----- one way data broadcast----------->   [ Node ]  < ------ slower/expensive/limited internet connectivity --------> [ Internet]
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
February 11, 2014, 11:44:05 AM
#45
A data broadcast doesn't have to be 100%.  If the broadcast gets the user 95% of the data then he cuts his bandwidth requirements over his conventional link by 95%.

That's my point. It might be good for 95% of the data. But, you need bi-directional communications to get 100%. Prior posters are envisioning a lite client that solely relied upon the broadcast. The lite client does not need 100% of the block chain. But, it does need 100% of the block chain that is relevant to it.

Quote
The client knows when it's missing a block,

The client WILL miss a block at some point in time, for whatever reason. That is a certainty. The Client WILL miss a rebroadcast(s) eventually too. But, the client does not know if the missed blocks are relevant to it. At a minimum, it needs bi-directional communications to requested the missed blocks. More likely, to reduce bandwidth on a slow/expensive connection, it queries the block chain for transactions with it's addresses, and if the blocks are not it its storage, then request those blocks to be transmitted either via the slow/expensive connection, or through the public broadcast.

One possible minimum slow/expensive communication is to send to the public broadcast a request with: Addresses, and Last Good Block Number (last block number where it knows it has 100% of the relevant blocks). The public broadcast could then rebroadcast any missed blocks.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
February 10, 2014, 10:48:13 PM
#44
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?


Oh, I'm sorry I missed this little tidbit.

The client knows when it's missing a block, because the headers are numbered as well as "chained".  It can tell immediately when it's missed a block.  How that can be handled, either automaticly or otherwise, would depend upon the user's situation.  Something like a Pskmail server, modded for Bitcoin, would work for the random user far from any urban area.  So would paying for a few megabytes over a sat phone.  Even a usb drive over a snailmail "sneakernet" (or, more likely for the regions discussed, a "motorcyclenet") would work great as a method to get a somewhat recent copy of the full blockchain into otherwise disconnected networks.  A single, modified client running on something like a piratebox could form the basis for bitcoin trades among patrons at a particular market.  If the client could receive a regular or on-going datacast stream of block-headers & merkle trees; it could verify that the network has accepted transactions that occured locally (since it already had those transactions) and learn about all other transactions from a regular full blockchain update via a monthly usb-drive delivery from a completely different source.  It could broadcast it's own locally discovered transactions to the rest of the network via PSKmail like shortwave connection once each day, by connecting to such a server 300 to 400 miles away (Near vertical incidental skywave, single hop) using a soundcard connected single-side band tranceiver (most common shortwave gear) pushing only 10 watts.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
February 10, 2014, 10:15:51 PM
#43
Without bi-directional communications, how do you get the missed block?


For an example of effective Internet access for the very patient, google the term "pskmail".  With bandwidths that are exponents of 31.25, (31.25,62.5,125,250,500 and 1000 Htz) and practial after-error-correction data rates that are very close to those numbers; the spectral efficiency of PSK on shortwave is very close to 1:1.  Which is excellent for anything that bounces off a kilometers thick refractor, normally called the ionosphere.  The range using relatively affordable equipment is uncontested at normal power levels.  Could this be used to datacast the blockchain? No.  Could this be used to broadcast locally generated transactions?  Yes.  Could this be used to broadcast requests for missed blocks?  Yes.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 09, 2014, 08:07:38 PM
#42
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.

Then you get the blocks from alternative channels.  You likely should be doing some validation from alternative channels ANYWAYS otherwise you are susceptible to an isolation attack.

Imagine a potential user who DOES have internet but it may be slow, flaky, and high cost.  It likely also has some low throughput limits each month.  This would describe 3 to 4 billion people in the third world.  Still if you want to take it closer to home, imagine someone in the US who who's only internet access is a 3G plan with a 10GB cap.

A data broadcast doesn't have to be 100%.  If the broadcast gets the user 95% of the data then he cuts his bandwidth requirements over his conventional link by 95%.  Sure 100% would be better but 95% might mean the difference between being able to run a node or not.  As for downtime, if it becomes mission critical (and the savings from improved uptime warrant the cost) there are always options.  Use two receivers on battery backups and compare the streams.   That combine with FEC, and multiple channels, you could achieve > 99.999% receive rate.   These concepts are already used in remote sat downlink applications.

My guess is you are thinking of a use case that it wasn't designed to be used.  If a user has absolutely no other form of communication (no matter the cost or speed) then yes this is useless, but that wasn't the problem it was trying to solve.

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
February 09, 2014, 11:05:19 AM
#41
You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.

So, how do you know that you missed a needed block?

Double/tripple/etc broadcasting does not solve the problem. When is the block repeated? 8 hours later? What if you are off the grid for 24 hours, or just happen to be off when the rebroadcast occurs. The issue is not "unlikely" the issue is: the system is not 100% guaranteed.


legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
February 08, 2014, 09:06:39 PM
#40

Without bi-directional communications, how do you get the missed block?


You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data.  That's the advantage of a true p2p network, you're never dependent upon any particular peer for performance.  Datacasting the blockchain would reduce the bandwidth requirements of (potentially) thousands of clients within the practcial range of the datacaster.  That does not mean that it would eliminate the occasional need for a direct connection to the bitcoin network.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
February 08, 2014, 09:02:07 PM
#39
What you do is this.  Let's say the blockchain requires 2400 baud just as a constant stream.  Instead, you broadcast at some higher rate, say 4800 baud.  With the extra bandwidth, you re-broadcast the same thing, but delayed a bit.  So, with twice the bandwidth, each block gets transmitted twice.  If you miss it the first time, you have a chance of getting it the second.  With more bandwidth, you can add on more interesting schemes such that, eventually with enough throughput, it's possible to transmit the entire blockchain over and over again in pieces and if you listen long enough, you're guaranteed to get all of it.

Most datacasting protocols (for example, Digital Radio Mondiale) includes this delayed double transmission within it's protocol automaticly.  It's called "forward error correction".  While not perfect, it does work pretty well and actually doesn't require a full doubling of bandwidth.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
February 08, 2014, 05:43:23 PM
#38
What you do is this.  Let's say the blockchain requires 2400 baud just as a constant stream.  Instead, you broadcast at some higher rate, say 4800 baud.  With the extra bandwidth, you re-broadcast the same thing, but delayed a bit.  So, with twice the bandwidth, each block gets transmitted twice.  If you miss it the first time, you have a chance of getting it the second.  With more bandwidth, you can add on more interesting schemes such that, eventually with enough throughput, it's possible to transmit the entire blockchain over and over again in pieces and if you listen long enough, you're guaranteed to get all of it.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
February 08, 2014, 04:30:56 PM
#37
All that the light client requires is the blockchain headers and the merkel trees of block that contain input transactions for all of it's own addresses.

Uni-direction communications assumes transmission without errors. For most things, like television and radio, once it is passed, it is passed, and you only care about what is on now.

Possible errors are:
1) Garbled communications
2) Receiver not working (turned on, error, your are in a basement/tunnel, etc.)
3) Failure of the client (crash, not turned on, busy doing something else, etc.).

So, you need bi-direction communications to request the retransmission of missed blocks. Yes, the lite client only needs its blocks, but it does not know that it missed a block with data that it needs. With bi-direction communication, the lite client can request block numbers relevant to it (with its address), check to see which of the blocks it does not have, and if it is missing any, request a retransmission.

Think about this scenario:
1) There is a service that transmits new blocks in the clear. It is active 24/7
2) Your client goes off line for 2 hours (battery died, and you did not know it).
3) At one hour into your blackout, a block relevant to you was transmitted.
4) At hour 2, you put in a new battery and start receiving blocks again.

Without bi-directional communications, how do you get the missed block?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
February 06, 2014, 11:29:13 PM
#36
The Bitcoin blockchain can be kept up-to-date with less than a 2400 baud connection.  ... Or is this concept simply wildly-unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky speculation?

Maintaining the blockchain requires bi-directional communication.


This is not true.  Transacting with bitcoin requires bi-directional communications between transacting parties, but maintaining a local copy of the blockchain most certainly does not.

Quote

I could see the broadcast for the major part of the data, and your own internet connection to request missed blocks.


This would work also, but is not required per the light client protocol.  What has been proposed is to broadcast the blocks as they are published, and ultimately to broadcast the blocks "naked" once that protocol is ready.  The reason is that, eventually, most user clients will be some flavor of light client.  Unlike a full client, that are normal today, a light client doesn't care about all of the transactions in a block, and doesn't participate in the p2p bitcoin network (other than as an edge node, listening for it's own transactions).  A light client can fucntion just fine with occasional access to a bridge node (such as an electrum node) that can provide the light client information concerning transactions it's seen with addresses that the light client manages.  All that the light client requires is the blockchain headers and the merkel trees of block that contain input transactions for all of it's own addresses.  Broadcasting the published blocks would provide an alternative method for light clients to aquire the most recent block headers & merkle trees.  A light client may or may not keep the merkle trees for the blocks that it doesn't have input transactions, but as small as they are individually, the actual transactions are the bulk of data a full node sees while connected to the p2p network, and a light client has no use for most of these transactions.  Datacasting of naked blocks (block headers and merkle trees with all transactions pruned out) to either light clients directly or to disconnected bridge nodes used as intermediaries would permit bitcoin economies to function with only slow or occasional access to the Internet.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
February 06, 2014, 06:06:32 PM
#35
The Bitcoin blockchain can be kept up-to-date with less than a 2400 baud connection.  ... Or is this concept simply wildly-unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky speculation?

Maintaining the blockchain requires bi-directional communication. Your proposal is basically transmit only. that works ok for something like price quotes, where if you miss one, you just wait for the next time it is quoted. If you miss a part of the block chain, you need to request the data to be retransmitted. What if your town looses power for 8 hours? You need all that data to be rebroadcast when power comes back up.

I could see the broadcast for the major part of the data, and your own internet connection to request missed blocks.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
February 06, 2014, 05:39:36 PM
#34
From your link:

Quote
Sadly thus far, there has been little 3rd party driver support to include this.  Note that all of the newer Atheros Chipsets starting with the 9XXX series (The stuff that now is pushing 802.11n) has dropped XR mode.

I understand how it works.  What you don't seem to understand is that there is a reason it has been discontinued.  It's probably not a technical reason.

True.  I have no idea how many chipsets that might harbor a hidden support for XR mode might exist in the wild. 
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