BTC and altcoins rising and falling together

e521

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Quote from: bleukind on December 20, 2013, 01:42:20 PM

BTC is the only coin you can use at the moment to make real cash (USD).
Today i read an anouncement that the Worldcoin wil be the next coin that gets an option to make directly USD of it. It will be in feb 2014. So i guess that will effect in a compleet change for the market of all altcoins.

What are your thoughts about it?

I certainly made some money with WDC already so I can't complain
my 2 cents:they are doing this for them and their friends heavily invested on WDC.
Any investor/coder really interested in cryptos would develop additional services/code for BTC
This is what people should push, not some shit coin with no infrastructure.

Stevenrm87

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I trade on BTC-E when the price of BTC drops like it did recently, All atls fell as well ( being tied to USD it makes sense) EXCEPT FTC (Made 25% more BTC on that bounce + the iddistional USD. FTC FTW

hostmaster

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Quote from: Kaiji on December 19, 2013, 08:12:00 AM

I find it very strange that most of the altcoins :Litecoin, nmc, nvc etc., are rising and falling the same exact time and rate as BTC this past 2 days when btc fell drastically to $400.

Is there any reason to this?

It's all same kind. Trust when taken one of them all drops... the important side of it which alt coin acts different in drops and ups and seeing the cause of it.

bleukind

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BTC is the only coin you can use at the moment to make real cash (USD).
Today i read an anouncement that the Worldcoin wil be the next coin that gets an option to make directly USD of it. It will be in feb 2014. So i guess that will effect in a compleet change for the market of all altcoins.

What are your thoughts about it?

quone17

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I always wonder why people invest in alts, I think you're "safer" in BTC, because they seem to rise and fall together but the chances of BTC going completely under (unlike most alts) is much closer to zero.

black_swan

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Quote from: GameKyuubi on December 19, 2013, 06:38:36 PM

Well, think about it. If BTC goes down, the USD value of your altcoin portfolio does too, so you'd want to convert to fiat, which means you'd sell your altcoins, which brings down the value of the altcoin as well...

I think you are right, before the "usual" behaviour was to move to alts from BTC as alts were going up.
Now, because alts got a decent value (from few cent to dollars) people might covert to BTC and cash out in FIAT.
If this is true it could possibly accelerate the sell out, very interesting, never thought about it

hoewer4what

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Quote from: ArticMine on December 19, 2013, 03:42:45 PM

Quote from: GigaCoin on December 19, 2013, 03:33:16 PM

i was referring to the other alt coins, i mentioned in my post about litecoin already.

My personal experience is with Namecoin (NMC). I sold my NMC for BTC on November 29, 2013 for 0.01251 BTC per NMC for the reasons stated above. Today I would get 0.0069 BTC per NMC.

A lot of speculation is doing with altcoins and the altcoins trading volume is much lower than Bitcoin so price manipulation is much easier

Kaiji

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Hoist the Colours

Quote from: Kaiji on December 20, 2013, 04:21:58 AM

The only reason I gather is that if BTC gets cheap people sell their altcoins to get more BTC and vice versa if BTC price rises.

That doesn't even make sense, if that happened then the altcoins would get cheaper as people move to buy BTC. Its frustrating since crypto market does exactly the opposite of what I expect it to do. People on this forum already warned me of that.

Kaiji

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Quote from: seleme on December 19, 2013, 03:32:17 PM

it is new pattern, since last 2-3 weeks.

Before this new pattern alts would go down if btc would rise, or rise if btc would go down. On the road to 1200$ all alts completely plummeted withmost of them being on their historical lows. But then they all exploded too and now are following btc price which is very frustrating, it was much easier to make money before.

Exactly what I've noticed and I've found puzzling. If you check the graphs they are almost identical to that of BTC. What is more strange is that before some altcoins would usually go down or stay the same while eithers would rise in price. Now they are all in unison.

People are buying with cash altcoins so it is not just because of alt/btc ratio; my observations are concerning the USD price of the altcoins which are independent of btc.

The only reason I gather is that if BTC gets cheap people sell their altcoins to get more BTC and vice versa if BTC price rises.

GameKyuubi

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DTCxNMC

Well, think about it. If BTC goes down, the USD value of your altcoin portfolio does too, so you'd want to convert to fiat, which means you'd sell your altcoins, which brings down the value of the altcoin as well...

ArticMine

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Quote from: GigaCoin on December 19, 2013, 03:33:16 PM

i was referring to the other alt coins, i mentioned in my post about litecoin already.

My personal experience is with Namecoin (NMC). I sold my NMC for BTC on November 29, 2013 for 0.01251 BTC per NMC for the reasons stated above. Today I would get 0.0069 BTC per NMC.

GigaCoin

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Giga

Quote from: ArticMine on December 19, 2013, 03:30:44 PM

Quote from: GigaCoin on December 19, 2013, 03:25:41 PM

Altcoins are bought with BTC so their prices will fluctuate accordingly.
...

They do not:

Here are some examples:

NMC/BTC http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=nmc-btc&market=btc-e

LTC/BTC http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

i was referring to the other alt coins, i mentioned in my post about litecoin already.

seleme

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Duelbits.com

it is new pattern, since last 2-3 weeks.

Before this new pattern alts would go down if btc would rise, or rise if btc would go down. On the road to 1200$ all alts completely plummeted withmost of them being on their historical lows. But then they all exploded too and now are following btc price which is very frustrating, it was much easier to make money before.

ArticMine

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Quote from: GigaCoin on December 19, 2013, 03:25:41 PM

Altcoins are bought with BTC so their prices will fluctuate accordingly.
...

They do not:

Here are some examples:

NMC/BTC http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=nmc-btc&market=btc-e

LTC/BTC http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

Argwai96

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Thug for life!

op is saying btc/usd rise cause alt/btc rise. and vice versa.

Oldminer

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Quote from: TERA on December 19, 2013, 11:52:28 AM

You guys dont understand OP. Its not the alt/usd price that that is rising and falling with btc - it is actually the alt/btc ratio. Alt / btc * btc/ USD = alt/usd. If BOTH ratios move the same way then your gains and losses are SQUARED. For example while btc is moving 600 to 400, LTC is moving 18 to 9. THIS is what is unusual.

Been trying to figure this one out for a while too.

I suspect its speculators buying into BTC with fiat when its on an uptrend, transferring their BTC to Cryptsy & buying cheap alts (knowing that BTC value will likely continue to increase which they can sell back into at anytime), which pushes up the price of alts, and once the alts hit a peak or when BTC price starts to slide (whichever comes first) they are converting their alts back into BTC which they then convert back into fiat.

GigaCoin

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Giga

Altcoins are bought with BTC so their prices will fluctuate accordingly.

The only coin that has potential to decouple from Bitcoin is Litecoin, but only once major exchanges start offering it.

ArticMine

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It is a behaviour not unlike that silver with respect to gold. Silver tends to peak in terms of gold when gold peaks in terms of USD. The psychology is gold is very expensive so the masses buy silver instead. The same psychology is for example evident with LTC vs BTC. BTC (gold) at 1240 USD is very expensive so the masses buy LTC (silver) instead. Yet the BTC peak is the point in time when it makes the most sense to trade one's LTC for BTC.

piramida

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Quote from: Kaiji on December 19, 2013, 08:12:00 AM

I find it very strange that most of the altcoins :Litecoin, nmc, nvc etc., are rising and falling the same exact time and rate as BTC this past 2 days when btc fell drastically to $400.

Is there any reason to this?

I was wondering why my shadow always followed me, then I understood. It is something that I create and which would not exist without me.

TERA

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You guys dont understand OP. Its not the alt/usd price that that is rising and falling with btc - it is actually the alt/btc ratio. Alt / btc * btc/ USD = alt/usd. If BOTH ratios move the same way then your gains and losses are SQUARED. For example while btc is moving 600 to 400, LTC is moving 18 to 9. THIS is what is unusual.

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