BTC hovers above $61K amid US regulators against physical product Bitcoin ETF

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on November 07, 2021, 10:18:33 AM

Does it mean that people already got enough methods/opportunities to trade/buy bitcoin which means they do not need bitcoin ETF for the purpose of trading/buying?

Futures-based ETFs seem to be a rather unfavorable way to trade BTC, at least if the calculations in this thread are to be believed. It’s not that people aren’t interested in a BTC ETF, but they want one that is physically-backed, and which should also have much less fees and risks.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: saltomanx1x on October 17, 2021, 12:13:31 AM

Amid renewed concerns over US regulators' acceptance of physical Bitcoin ETFs (exchange-traded funds) later this year, Bitcoin hovered above $61K on first approval in the United States.

What do you think about the new concerns that will occur in the future?

For more than 20 days that we are trading around $62k levels which may be good or may not. It seems market is looking for some positive external trigger so that it may continue its bullish trend. Bitcoin ETF approval was expected to be having big impact into bitcoin market but as of now we are not seeing any significant impact for some reasons.

Does it mean that people already got enough methods/opportunities to trade/buy bitcoin which means they do not need bitcoin ETF for the purpose of trading/buying?

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Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on November 07, 2021, 09:07:37 AM

What everyone is waiting though is which institutional body are going to invest next and this could be the catalyst and not ETF instruments.

It would be more correct to say "which big US company or some famous businessman will next invest in Bitcoin", because as things have been going on for some time, all eyes are on only one country and their companies. Of course, this is understandable due to the amount of money circulating in the US markets, and the fact that the US is in political and military terms an unavoidable factor anywhere in the world. That is why the BTC ETF was not as important anywhere else in the world as in the US, but so far not the one that is approved (futures-based).

Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on November 07, 2021, 09:07:37 AM

Seeing some movement now, not that big but it's a 2% movement so that is already a positive thing for the market.

2% is not worth mentioning, at least not for you, me, and 99% of those who invest in Bitcoin. The fact is that we have been successfully keeping the price above $60k for some time (with one short drop below that level), which is in a way a good indicator that there are fewer and fewer weak hands or those who believe the bull run is over. The real test, however, will be in December, when it will finally be seen whether those who advocate a 4-year cycle are right or not.

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Quote from: Baofeng on November 06, 2021, 06:30:42 PM

This is like 3 weeks ago, we already posted a new all time high already. But then again the price goes down after that and now we are still hovering $61k.

It's means the approval has push the price to a new all time high, but after 2 days it didn't sustained the volume, hence the correction. So not sure if this Bitcoin ETF will be the catalyst for a big expectation of $100k in December or it will just have a short term effect on the price.

Seeing some movement now, not that big but it's a 2% movement so that is already a positive thing for the market.

It might be that this ETF has been long overdue, I mean it could have lead to big run still in 2018 when this is going to be approved that time. Now, investors are used to hearing this kind of news now. What everyone is waiting though is which institutional body are going to invest next and this could be the catalyst and not ETF instruments.

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This is like 3 weeks ago, we already posted a new all time high already. But then again the price goes down after that and now we are still hovering $61k.

It's means the approval has push the price to a new all time high, but after 2 days it didn't sustained the volume, hence the correction. So not sure if this Bitcoin ETF will be the catalyst for a big expectation of $100k in December or it will just have a short term effect on the price.

rahmatrf331

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the bull market has started to heat up again after a few days of struggling hard. the bull market broke through a fresh ATH of $67k last week and is now battling back after a minor correction and is now back at $63k. like the bull market is starting to struggle to break through the next new ATH price of $70k at the next crossroads. is that possible, let's monitor the latest bull market movement.

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Quote from: Kemarit on October 20, 2021, 03:09:38 AM

Quote from: Weng simok on October 20, 2021, 12:48:40 AM

The First Bitcoin Futures ETF was trading in the US on Tuesday on the New York Stock Exchange. Trading the Bitcoin Futures ETF is in progress under its codename i.e. bito. Looking at the video released by CNBC yesterday the increase in the price of bitcoin will continue to be high and it is likely that bitcoin will reach $100k in the near future.

source : https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/market/20211019115520-19-284963/etf-bitcoin-futures-pertama-mulai-diperdagangkan-di-as

Yes, that's why the price is going to reach another all time high in the next 24 hours because of this very positive news. So hopefully, this is just the beginning of all those Bitcoin Futures ETF in the horizon. This is long overdue, but now we are raking the fruit of waiting for it for many years.

And it just so happen that we are in the road to $100,000, and this one could be catalyst this month and then Taproot in November. Then December all the FOMO will sets it to push the price to 6 digits.

With over a billion dollars in its first day, I am sure that nobody expected it to be THIS big. I mean sure we were all expecting it to have an impact on bitcoin and the price is now around ATH and doing great and we are happy about it, but that is literally just first day, if it made us earn so much on its first ever day, and also got 1+ billion dollar volume right away, then I am pretty sure it will have even greater return in the future as well. This is one of those things where we get a little bit more bull help, it is not going to be changing everything in a single day, but it is something that we could see as a positive for a long time since it is a bull logic.

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Quote from: Weng simok on October 20, 2021, 12:48:40 AM

The First Bitcoin Futures ETF was trading in the US on Tuesday on the New York Stock Exchange. Trading the Bitcoin Futures ETF is in progress under its codename i.e. bito. Looking at the video released by CNBC yesterday the increase in the price of bitcoin will continue to be high and it is likely that bitcoin will reach $100k in the near future.

source : https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/market/20211019115520-19-284963/etf-bitcoin-futures-pertama-mulai-diperdagangkan-di-as

Yes, that's why the price is going to reach another all time high in the next 24 hours because of this very positive news. So hopefully, this is just the beginning of all those Bitcoin Futures ETF in the horizon. This is long overdue, but now we are raking the fruit of waiting for it for many years.

And it just so happen that we are in the road to $100,000, and this one could be catalyst this month and then Taproot in November. Then December all the FOMO will sets it to push the price to 6 digits.

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The First Bitcoin Futures ETF was trading in the US on Tuesday on the New York Stock Exchange. Trading the Bitcoin Futures ETF is in progress under its codename i.e. bito. Looking at the video released by CNBC yesterday the increase in the price of bitcoin will continue to be high and it is likely that bitcoin will reach $100k in the near future.

source : https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/market/20211019115520-19-284963/etf-bitcoin-futures-pertama-mulai-diperdagangkan-di-as

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Quote from: saltomanx1x on October 17, 2021, 12:13:31 AM

Amid renewed concerns over US regulators' acceptance of physical Bitcoin ETFs (exchange-traded funds) later this year, Bitcoin hovered above $61K on first approval in the United States.

What do you think about the new concerns that will occur in the future?

source : https://cointelegraph.com/news/btc-price-hovers-above-61k-amid-fresh-concerns-over-fate-of-physical-bitcoin-etf

A very good thread to talk about today is that US regulators have turn on two ETF applications after years of failed applications. This ETF will have CME Bitcoin futures as the underlying asset with an inflow of investors switching from Gold ETFs to BTC. this can affect the price of bitcoin going forward because the presence of a Bitcoin ETF can increase the demand for Bitcoin. The main reason behind the rising price of Bitcoin is that the ETF will attract many institutional investors into the cryptocurrency with the concept of no worries regarding the security or storage of the Bitcoin.

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Quote from: Oceat on October 18, 2021, 06:39:47 PM

You aren't worried about how Bitcoin surpasses the $40k from $30k before? I think that's worth worrying too.

Anyway, whether the SEC approve it or not it's still doesn't matter though, they've gone for years and yet look where Bitcoin now? It's just the people anticipate too much about the possible approval of ETF yet this isn't the real reason why Bitcoin is pumping. It's more like an adoption is coming to continue to support Bitcoin in the process.

I think people now realized what is the advantage of bear market before the bull market. I wish they would since it's happening over and over again since the past bull run and bear market.

The difference is that if there are people who are buying right now because the ETF will be accepted and then when it is rejected or postponed then they are going to be acting like they are not involved with the most improved version of money already and get out. I mean ETF is not the reason why bitcoin is good and we are not going to have the bitcoin world being great just because of we will have ETF.

However, if you own bitcoin because you believed that ETF will happen and then it didn't happen then it makes sense that you would end up selling. I do not really understand why there is a good chance that we may see a drop. I hope that we won't, and I hope that people will ignore it, but I am not so sure.

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Quote from: rahmatrf331 on October 18, 2021, 03:08:03 AM

Worth worrying about when the price of bitcoin soared from $52k to $62k within a week. Bitcoin is a volatile market that cannot be accurately predicted by many bitcoin analysts. I see US regulators of physical Bitcoin ETF products having a significant impact on the current bullrunning market. so it doesn't hurt to continue to be wary of falling prices in the future.

You aren't worried about how Bitcoin surpasses the $40k from $30k before? I think that's worth worrying too.

Anyway, whether the SEC approve it or not it's still doesn't matter though, they've gone for years and yet look where Bitcoin now? It's just the people anticipate too much about the possible approval of ETF yet this isn't the real reason why Bitcoin is pumping. It's more like an adoption is coming to continue to support Bitcoin in the process.

I think people now realized what is the advantage of bear market before the bull market. I wish they would since it's happening over and over again since the past bull run and bear market.

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Worth worrying about when the price of bitcoin soared from $52k to $62k within a week. Bitcoin is a volatile market that cannot be accurately predicted by many bitcoin analysts. I see US regulators of physical Bitcoin ETF products having a significant impact on the current bullrunning market. so it doesn't hurt to continue to be wary of falling prices in the future.

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This adds to the massive adoption of btc. Even without etfs there are plenty of markets where users can trade btc. I think the approval of etf just shows that the world is ready for a widesprrad adoption on blockchain. Well its US who started this and it will served as a hype news everyday for our cryptocommunity. Btc that is being cursed or called scam before are now rising on the top of every investment out there.

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on October 17, 2021, 12:22:17 PM

I do not think that it will be appropriate to underestimate the powers of stock markets of USA kind of country. Bitcoin ETF will enable people to buy/hold/trade bitcoin like any other stocks with the same margin which meant for their usual stock related activities. So, there would be definite impact we could expect when we get bitcoin ETF hits live markets.

Nah... There are already planty of options to trade bitcoin. I'm not only crypto trader, I use exante for stock/bonds/funds/REITs. They allow me to buy foreign stocks from all around the world and guess what? They have 86 crypto to trade... I can already trade 86 crypto right from my stock trading account. Tell me more how BTC ETF will change my world and finally allow people to trade BTC XD Who wants to be exposed to bTC volatility ... have an option to do that. BTC ETF is just another one.

Quote from: RealMalatesta on October 17, 2021, 12:22:17 PM

(Gold ETF should be considered here for good example, even gold is limited by 250k metric tons, we could buy/trade more than that with the help of ETF; similarly bitcoin ETF will help more than 21 million people to buy and hold more than 1 bitcoin each, theoretically).

Wrong. ETF is an asset backed 1:1 with real asset. So when you buy ETF, found is buying real btc to back it. That's the only way ETF price is pegged to real asset price. So it will not "help more than 21 million people to buy and hold more than 1 bitcoin each"

ETF its not the same as Derivatives.

Quote from: pooya87 on October 17, 2021, 11:30:19 PM

It is funny how some people ignore the fact that price has been rising for about 3 weeks now and focus on the past couple of days that a meaningless news about a bitcoin ETF came out and think the rise is because of that Cheesy

As it was pointed out earlier nobody cares about bitcoin ETFs, at least not anymore. Back in 2017 it was overhyped and market reacted to the news but it was also overused so it lost its glamour. So at this point, 4 years later and about 200 ETF rejections in US and a bunch of ETFs in other countries, people stopped giving a crap about whether or not US approves a bitcoin ETF or not.

Can't wait for 2025 bubble. BTC will dump from 600k to 300k because of "china ban crypto FUD, but this time for real" but pump right after to 1 mln $ thanks to new ETF rumours.

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Quote from: Twinkledoe on October 18, 2021, 12:51:26 AM

snip

Yes this is what I read on Friday, the keyword there is "could". The title of the article is first bitcoin futures exchange "may" go live on Monday. The words "could" and "may" don't make it a concrete deal. There was an SEC letter floating around which says that Nasdaq approved the listing, however they sent this to the SEC and not from the SEC. It just means they could list it for trade pending approval.

That NYSE ticker you included is not an actual stock to trade. Its just an index. There is no volume there. It just some benchmark which takes various Coinbase, Bitstamp prices and shows it. This is not the new BTC ETF ticker. This is something else. The BTC ETF price will be completely different, wont be in the same units as BTC is.

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Quote from: adaseb on October 18, 2021, 12:41:09 AM

I still can’t find any source which says it was approved. All I read is that they didn’t delay or deny it yet. I also have no idea when they will be able to launch it for trading. Will it be tomorrow, next week or next month.

The issue with this futures ETF is obviously the premium they will have to pay everytime they roll the contracts. This is similar to the crude oil etf which is never ideal for long term investment. For long term investment you might be actually better off with GBTC.

You can read the below links :

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-15/proshares-signals-first-u-s-bitcoin-etf-could-launch-on-monday

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2021/10/15/sec-approves-bitcoin-etf-opening-crypto-to-wider-investor-base/
"The filing indicated Oct. 18 as the approximate date for the proposed launch of the fund, which will trade on the NYSE Arca Exchange and charge a management fee of 0.95%."

It was already approved, but this monday is the expected launching of the fund.

So for those who are using NYSE Arca Exchange, maybe you can check how to trade btc.

https://www.nyse.com/quote/index/NYXBT

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I still can’t find any source which says it was approved. All I read is that they didn’t delay or deny it yet. I also have no idea when they will be able to launch it for trading. Will it be tomorrow, next week or next month.

The issue with this futures ETF is obviously the premium they will have to pay everytime they roll the contracts. This is similar to the crude oil etf which is never ideal for long term investment. For long term investment you might be actually better off with GBTC.

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It is funny how some people ignore the fact that price has been rising for about 3 weeks now and focus on the past couple of days that a meaningless news about a bitcoin ETF came out and think the rise is because of that Cheesy

As it was pointed out earlier nobody cares about bitcoin ETFs, at least not anymore. Back in 2017 it was overhyped and market reacted to the news but it was also overused so it lost its glamour. So at this point, 4 years later and about 200 ETF rejections in US and a bunch of ETFs in other countries, people stopped giving a crap about whether or not US approves a bitcoin ETF or not.

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Forget about Bitcoin ETF for now. If the SEC would remain persistent in not approving any, that is not a loss to Bitcoin. That is a loss to the country and its people who will be deprived of a certain way to access Bitcoin funds. But they could still buy the actual Bitcoin if they want to. Bitcoin ETF in the US is more about the SEC and the country and less about Bitcoin itself. Bitcoin would still rise anyway. On the other hand, would US be updated with the new financial revolution if they remain with their old ways? They will be left behind.

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