Btc new oil for USA | Bitcointalksearch.org

cryptosize

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Quote from: mindrust on March 24, 2024, 02:10:28 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on March 20, 2024, 05:04:41 AM

By the way, a question - what do you think are the feelings now experienced by ordinary residents of El Salvador, who, for example, a week ago transferred their income to Bitcoin and today have lost more than 12%?

1 btc still equals to 1 btc? Grin

Isn't this what we are saying every time we encounter the volatility argument?

USD is a get poor slow scheme, It will surely make you poor in the next 20 years. > get poor slow

BTC is a get rich fast, get poor even faster scheme.

On a 5-10 year period, btc will surely make you rich. > get rich quick
On a 1 month period, it might make you 50% poorer. > get poor very fast

That's how bitcoin has been since the beginning. It is all about having a choice. Depending on what they want, they have the option to:

1- get poor slow,
2- get rich fast, or
3- get poor very fast Cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo4WF3cSd9Q

You also forgot to mention that when BTC gets cheaper, then a merchant that accepts BTC will actually get more satoshis for a product/service that he sold... that's not a bad thing.

Regarding fiat "stability", it's a myth.

Sure, you may argue that USD or EUR don't experience 5-10% volatility in a single day, but they're still volatile currencies (I still see different prices every time I visit the supermarket).

I remember back in 2008 you could get 160 USD with 100 EUR. Now you only get 108 USD... not to mention that people's wages have fallen.

Gold is volatile too. Houses are volatile too (remember the housing crisis back in 2008?).

In fact there is nothing stable in this universe:

I get it, Homo Sapiens is a deeply insecure species and will always seek "security/stability", but this is an exercise in futility. It would go against the universe's laws to achieve 100% stability and 0% risk.

mindrust

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Quote from: DrBeer on March 20, 2024, 05:04:41 AM

By the way, a question - what do you think are the feelings now experienced by ordinary residents of El Salvador, who, for example, a week ago transferred their income to Bitcoin and today have lost more than 12%?

1 btc still equals to 1 btc? Grin

Isn't this what we are saying every time we encounter the volatility argument?

USD is a get poor slow scheme, It will surely make you poor in the next 20 years. > get poor slow

BTC is a get rich fast, get poor even faster scheme.

On a 5-10 year period, btc will surely make you rich. > get rich quick
On a 1 month period, it might make you 50% poorer. > get poor very fast

That's how bitcoin has been since the beginning. It is all about having a choice. Depending on what they want, they have the option to:

1- get poor slow,
2- get rich fast, or
3- get poor very fast Cool

jaberwock

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Quote from: Jating on March 22, 2024, 05:55:50 AM

I don't think that the US will make Bitcoin or at least other currency to replace their dollar. It's a radical change and it won't simply happen. US, despite who will be the sitting President and what party he/she is, they won't abide by that. Good thing if they will support Bitcoin but so far that is not the case.

Blackrock is a huge financial entity, trillions worth, but I also doubt that they will let crypto takes over. For them it's business as usual, if they can make money out of it and continue to dominate the world order then they will jump on the hype and that's what they are doing right now.

I mean think about it, if you are a rich company like them, and you are making a lot of money, does it really matter to you if it is in dollars or in anything else? They do not really care and they will end up with as much profit as they would like to and they will continue that way for a long time.

I get that it is not going to be that easy, and I know that it is going to take a while, but they are not doing business just in the USA anyway, they are dealing with foreign companies as well, so they are used to earning money in different currency forms, in this case it is not euro, it is not yuan, but it is bitcoin and they must be fine about it. Think about it we are talking about as much profit as we can for them so they are probably quite happy.

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Quote from: shield132 on March 23, 2024, 07:12:26 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 12, 2024, 01:19:21 AM

The reason is simple, there are many exchanges around the world that offer bitcoin markets against a wide variety of fiat currencies. The more popular bitcoin gets elsewhere, the more these exchanges grow.
That is not to mention the fact that people don't have to "exchange" fiat for bitcoin. Bitcoin is a currency and people can earn it just like they earn any other currency and it is global.

USD is the standard, we measure Bitcoins into USD and then convert that value into other currencies, that's how everyone calculates Bitcoin's price.

Shhh, don't mention the truth, you'll have the de-dollarization crowd in tears!

Every single day you hear how this and that won;t be priced in dollars yet every single topic about bitcoin and the price here mentions dollars, not yuans, not rupiah, not rubles and not rials, nobody knows how much a BTC is in those toilet paper currencies but magically some think they will replace the $ with it!

Is there a FED meeting in 2 months, everyone bites his nails waiting for it and doesn't even know the rest of the world is also playing with interest rates but nobody cares about them.

There were ETF in the rest of the world, and nobody cared, once launched in the US price went 2x, and Blackrock launched an ETF in Brazil...crickets!
Haters gonna hate...

Quote from: shield132 on March 23, 2024, 07:12:26 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 21, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

Or for example if you made a bet online in a crypto casino (or maybe even advertised one and get paid by the company), since "internet gambling" is also illegal in United States under the Wire Act of 1961, you'd be considered a double criminal.
and so on.

Is it really prohibited? Then how does Stake.us exist?

It's not, of course, gambling is a $300 billion industry in the US, but do you expect reliable information from somebody who hates the US to the core because of propaganda while never setting foot there?

pooya87

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Quote from: shield132 on March 23, 2024, 07:12:26 AM

Is it really prohibited? Then how does Stake.us exist?

The scenario was for if US banned bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, not now. Stake.com only works with cryptos not money. It is also located in Curaçao (an island outside US jurisdiction) so it is a bit harder to ban; and even with that the site is only available in certain states not all 50 due to their different regulations (like it is unavailable in Washington, New York, Nevada, etc.).

Apart from that, legal expertise is required to answer how they're "bending the rules".

wiss19

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 21, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

It's called "tainted coins" and it has nothing to do with other countries in the free world. Such bans would be enforced domestically and in the colonies.

For example in such a ban scenario, if you live in USA and have traded bitcoin on Bisq which is a decentralized exchange that US can not control, they consider your coins tainted and you'd be considered a criminal and they can attach terms such as "terrorism" and "national security" to it and raid your home.

Or for example if you made a bet online in a crypto casino (or maybe even advertised one and get paid by the company), since "internet gambling" is also illegal in United States under the Wire Act of 1961, you'd be considered a double criminal.
and so on.

Bitcoin won't really be significantly affected though. It will still continue as decentralized as before. Just like when China started increasing its "ban laws" against Bitcoin, nothing changed despite China having a much bigger impact on Bitcoin with its much bigger share of the trading volume, hashrate and even ASIC manufacturing.

I do agree that government can do that whenever they want to, they can cover all of coinbase today and take all the bitcoins there, and nothing would stop them from doing it. Then they will say they will pay people back, but they will do that in dollars, meaning they will take the price of bitcoin at that period, and then they will pay that amount of dollar, no matter if bitcoin went up.

This is quite sad but they do have that right, this means that they "think" coinbase is doing something illegal and they just felt the need to intervene, and since they are paying everyone their money back, they are not really seizing the money of the innocent, they are giving it back after all. But they would gain from it without a doubt.

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Big money is everywhere, they look for places to invest.
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Quote from: hugeblack on March 11, 2024, 04:44:22 AM

I do not see any relationship between Bitcoin, BlackRock, oil, and the analysis you provided to support your argument that Bitcoin is here to stay. BlackRock manages assets in the trillions and these investors like to diversify their investments, and since Bitcoin has been making a lot of noise in recent years, some investors will try investing in this new asset.
Without a regulatory overlay and decentralization, Bitcoin will fail to serve as a currency for settling international trade.

Yeah agree. Bitcoin is just one of those investment that BlackRock chose because of it's high potential and also being a future proof investment. Bitcoin is very volatile for such a trade especially in oil and I think dollar is still the currency of choice for such transactions but still depends on what trader prefer but I haven't heard Bitcoin yet being used in a trade of oil.

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The big guns like BlackRock getting into Bitcoin isn't just a casual move, it's a game-changer. Bitcoin's limited supply and promise of financial freedom make it a hot commodity especially as an alternative to traditional currencies. With BlackRock controlling massive retirement funds in Europe and having deep pockets, Bitcoin's ascent seems inevitable. This could turn Bitcoin into a go-to currency, with the USD as its gateway. As BlackRock scoops up Bitcoin, it could become the norm to trade it for USD. This shift, along with the rise of stablecoins like USDT and USDC, will reshape the crypto landscape, influenced by global events like wars and currency crashes

shield132

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 12, 2024, 01:19:21 AM

The reason is simple, there are many exchanges around the world that offer bitcoin markets against a wide variety of fiat currencies. The more popular bitcoin gets elsewhere, the more these exchanges grow.
That is not to mention the fact that people don't have to "exchange" fiat for bitcoin. Bitcoin is a currency and people can earn it just like they earn any other currency and it is global.

USD is the standard, we measure Bitcoins into USD and then convert that value into other currencies, that's how everyone calculates Bitcoin's price.

Quote from: philipma1957 on March 19, 2024, 05:38:01 PM

I never thought as a child I would want to leave the USA and live more or less alone in a less crowded part of the world , but now I do.

It's hilarious how hundreds of people from my nation pay tens of thousands of dollars every day to cross the Mexica-American border to migrate to the United States but you want to leave that country. To be fair, I'm lost in vein, people locally say that the USA is great if you are not a lazy person and life is great in America but American people on this forum and on every online forum complain how shit America is and how they want to migrate somewhere else. I don't understand who says the truth because people from my nation who went to America, bought cars, and houses and have a successful life.

Quote from: pooya87 on March 21, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

Or for example if you made a bet online in a crypto casino (or maybe even advertised one and get paid by the company), since "internet gambling" is also illegal in United States under the Wire Act of 1961, you'd be considered a double criminal.
and so on.

Is it really prohibited? Then how does Stake.us exist?

pooya87

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Quote from: cryptosize on March 21, 2024, 10:43:25 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 21, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

Or for example if you made a bet online in a crypto casino (or maybe even advertised one and get paid by the company), since "internet gambling" is also illegal in United States under the Wire Act of 1961, you'd be considered a double criminal.

Is this still a thing?

Back in 1961 internet (ARPANET) didn't even exist... telephone lines existed, granted, but it was 100% circuit-switching.

And what about modern video games/lootboxes (i.e. Fortnite) operating over the internet? Isn't that a form of gambling? Huh

All these antiquated laws mean nothing IMHO, especially if they're not being enforced.

Laws being old don't nullify them. For example the right to keep and bear arms is one of the oldest laws in USA. The Federal Wire Act being old is the same, it has had addendums and has been interpreted as to include "gambling over the Internet" in different states.

What the details of it is and what falls under being "online gambling" is something that an actual lawyer can answer, not me.

Besides, I was just pointing out that in the scenario that the US government decides to ban bitcoin they can and will extend that ban to a lot of things like online gambling and they already have a Federal Law for it to justify that.
AFAICT there are other acts that also prohibit gambling over the internet that are newer.

Jating

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Quote from: someone703 on March 21, 2024, 12:50:22 PM

Widespread adoption by major economies like the US. Replacing the USD with Bitcoin is a radical notion, with significant economic and technological hurdles. The "unlimited supply" of USD as a weakness, but replacing it with a finite asset like Bitcoin presents its own challenges. Imagine a society where the money supply is inflexible, potentially hindering economic growth.

Blackrock's purchase of Bitcoin is a case in point. It represents a diversification strategy, not necessarily a mass adoption of Bitcoin as a transactional currency. People do need oil, but widespread use of electric vehicles could disrupt the oil market. Similarly, alternative cryptocurrencies like LTC or Doge could challenge Bitcoin's dominance for everyday transactions.

I don't think that the US will make Bitcoin or at least other currency to replace their dollar. It's a radical change and it won't simply happen. US, despite who will be the sitting President and what party he/she is, they won't abide by that. Good thing if they will support Bitcoin but so far that is not the case.

Blackrock is a huge financial entity, trillions worth, but I also doubt that they will let crypto takes over. For them it's business as usual, if they can make money out of it and continue to dominate the world order then they will jump on the hype and that's what they are doing right now.

cryptosize

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Quote from: someone703 on March 21, 2024, 12:50:22 PM

Widespread adoption by major economies like the US. Replacing the USD with Bitcoin is a radical notion, with significant economic and technological hurdles. The "unlimited supply" of USD as a weakness, but replacing it with a finite asset like Bitcoin presents its own challenges. Imagine a society where the money supply is inflexible, potentially hindering economic growth.

Blackrock's purchase of Bitcoin is a case in point. It represents a diversification strategy, not necessarily a mass adoption of Bitcoin as a transactional currency. People do need oil, but widespread use of electric vehicles could disrupt the oil market. Similarly, alternative cryptocurrencies like LTC or Doge could challenge Bitcoin's dominance for everyday transactions.

You assume that the population will keep increasing (this spurs economic growth -> more GDP/CO2)...

What if the human population is on a decline? What if there are only 500 million people left by 2050? (Net Zero is hard to achieve otherwise)

I know this sounds like a radical idea (lots of people will ponder how this can be achieved), but think about it for a moment... a deflationary currency makes total sense with a declining population. No?

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Widespread adoption by major economies like the US. Replacing the USD with Bitcoin is a radical notion, with significant economic and technological hurdles. The "unlimited supply" of USD as a weakness, but replacing it with a finite asset like Bitcoin presents its own challenges. Imagine a society where the money supply is inflexible, potentially hindering economic growth.

Blackrock's purchase of Bitcoin is a case in point. It represents a diversification strategy, not necessarily a mass adoption of Bitcoin as a transactional currency. People do need oil, but widespread use of electric vehicles could disrupt the oil market. Similarly, alternative cryptocurrencies like LTC or Doge could challenge Bitcoin's dominance for everyday transactions.

cryptosize

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 21, 2024, 10:04:04 AM

Or for example if you made a bet online in a crypto casino (or maybe even advertised one and get paid by the company), since "internet gambling" is also illegal in United States under the Wire Act of 1961, you'd be considered a double criminal.

Is this still a thing?

Back in 1961 internet (ARPANET) didn't even exist... telephone lines existed, granted, but it was 100% circuit-switching.

And what about modern video games/lootboxes (i.e. Fortnite) operating over the internet? Isn't that a form of gambling? Huh

All these antiquated laws mean nothing IMHO, especially if they're not being enforced.

pooya87

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Quote from: philipma1957 on March 19, 2024, 05:38:01 PM

So the Great USA will claim that btc is in an exchange that holds bad coins terrorist coins.

Thus exchanges like binance will be in 'trouble' since they have coins from IRAN.

Right now multiple pools ban some txs it is more likely this will all be a way to crash btc in the 'name of peace' . Fuck countries simply find ways to fuck shit up.

I never thought as a child I would want to leave the USA and live more or less alone in a less crowded part of the world , but now I do.

It's called "tainted coins" and it has nothing to do with other countries in the free world. Such bans would be enforced domestically and in the colonies.

For example in such a ban scenario, if you live in USA and have traded bitcoin on Bisq which is a decentralized exchange that US can not control, they consider your coins tainted and you'd be considered a criminal and they can attach terms such as "terrorism" and "national security" to it and raid your home.

Or for example if you made a bet online in a crypto casino (or maybe even advertised one and get paid by the company), since "internet gambling" is also illegal in United States under the Wire Act of 1961, you'd be considered a double criminal.
and so on.

Bitcoin won't really be significantly affected though. It will still continue as decentralized as before. Just like when China started increasing its "ban laws" against Bitcoin, nothing changed despite China having a much bigger impact on Bitcoin with its much bigger share of the trading volume, hashrate and even ASIC manufacturing.

cryptosize

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Quote from: DrBeer on March 20, 2024, 05:04:41 AM

By the way, a question - what do you think are the feelings now experienced by ordinary residents of El Salvador, who, for example, a week ago transferred their income to Bitcoin and today have lost more than 12%?

We've heard this argument before... people who bought at 68k (2021 ATH). We saw BTC reaching 73k one week ago.

Nobody has lost anything. It's called unrealized losses for a reason.

Normies (ordinary people) need to have a low time preference, otherwise BTC is not for them.

Either you prefer BTC for its long term benefits (higher appreciation), or you prefer fiat currencies for their short-term "stability" and guaranteed long-term depreciation.

Red vs blue pill. The choice is yours.

DrBeer

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Quote from: mindrust on March 16, 2024, 01:23:39 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on March 16, 2024, 08:02:43 AM

I'm sorry, but... El Salvador did not give up the dollar. And does not use Bitcoin as a local currency. El Salvador is accumulating Bitcoin assets and using it as an investment asset. And also as an asset that attracts investors to the economy of El Salvador. Therefore, your conclusions based on this erroneous idea will also be erroneous. Sorry if this doesn't please you, but this is the real state of affairs.

El Salvador uses BTC as a local currency.

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/el-salvador-adopted-bitcoin-as-an-official-currency-salvadorans-mostly-shrugged

You are wrong on that one.

Yes, I am aware of this information, but.. I was not mistaken

We're talking about slightly different things. I’m talking specifically about the country’s transition to Bitcoin as the official currency. Those. it is accepted by everyone and everywhere, taxes are paid in it, and the budget is formed in it. This is the adoption of Bitcoin as a state, official currency.
You say a little friend - indeed, El Salvador became the first country to accept Bitcoin as legal tender. And this is a slightly different concept. It is essentially an official alternative payment asset.

By the way, a question - what do you think are the feelings now experienced by ordinary residents of El Salvador, who, for example, a week ago transferred their income to Bitcoin and today have lost more than 12%?

cryptosize

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Quote from: philipma1957 on March 19, 2024, 05:38:01 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 12, 2024, 01:19:21 AM

You are missing the whole reason why the US regime's scam with oil and dollar worked.

It is called Petrodollar, and it is US regime forcing everyone to use the US dollar when they want to trade oil. This created a monopoly and artificially strengthened the US dollar. The distinction you are missing is that it was never about having oil or how much oil you have, it is about forcing others to use dollar when trading oil.

They can not force anybody to use dollar when they want to trade bitcoin which means such monopoly can not be created regardless of what companies including Blackrock do, hence you can't even begin to compare the Petrodollar scam with what these companies are doing.

The reason is simple, there are many exchanges around the world that offer bitcoin markets against a wide variety of fiat currencies. The more popular bitcoin gets elsewhere, the more these exchanges grow.
That is not to mention the fact that people don't have to "exchange" fiat for bitcoin. Bitcoin is a currency and people can earn it just like they earn any other currency and it is global.

So the Great USA will claim that btc is in an exchange that holds bad coins terrorist coins.

Thus exchanges like binance will be in 'trouble' since they have coins from IRAN.

Right now multiple pools ban some txs it is more likely this will all be a way to crash btc in the 'name of peace' . Fuck countries simply find ways to fuck shit up.

I never thought as a child I would want to leave the USA and live more or less alone in a less crowded part of the world , but now I do.

USA is not what it used to be... by 2030 it will be completely unrecognizable.

Worth a read:

https://brandonquittem.com/bitcoin-rhythms-of-history/

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 12, 2024, 01:19:21 AM

You are missing the whole reason why the US regime's scam with oil and dollar worked.

It is called Petrodollar, and it is US regime forcing everyone to use the US dollar when they want to trade oil. This created a monopoly and artificially strengthened the US dollar. The distinction you are missing is that it was never about having oil or how much oil you have, it is about forcing others to use dollar when trading oil.

They can not force anybody to use dollar when they want to trade bitcoin which means such monopoly can not be created regardless of what companies including Blackrock do, hence you can't even begin to compare the Petrodollar scam with what these companies are doing.

The reason is simple, there are many exchanges around the world that offer bitcoin markets against a wide variety of fiat currencies. The more popular bitcoin gets elsewhere, the more these exchanges grow.
That is not to mention the fact that people don't have to "exchange" fiat for bitcoin. Bitcoin is a currency and people can earn it just like they earn any other currency and it is global.

So the Great USA will claim that btc is in an exchange that holds bad coins terrorist coins.

Thus exchanges like binance will be in 'trouble' since they have coins from IRAN.

Right now multiple pools ban some txs it is more likely this will all be a way to crash btc in the 'name of peace' . Fuck countries simply find ways to fuck shit up.

I never thought as a child I would want to leave the USA and live more or less alone in a less crowded part of the world , but now I do.

Topic: Btc new oil for USA (Read 675 times)