Topic: BTC prise isnt rising! USD is loosing value, thats all! - page 3. (Read 4675 times)

You can help encourage that by offering goods or services for sale in bitcoin.  Do so profitably, and you help everybody, including yourself.

I think that the major problems for bitcoin stem mostly from the monopoly status. Markets work because of competition, when btc has a alternative it will start to act right until then it is the gold rush the fools gold rush. 

I can't give any reason why Bitcoin is "special" here, but I can give two cents about why a high hoard/spend ratio is not good in the long term.

The way I see it, currency derives its value from two things:
1) What you can trade for it now, and
2) What you think you'll be able to trade for it in the future.

Let's be frank. Right now, the bitcoin economy is still foetal. There's plenty of things that you simply can't buy for bitcoins - you have to "cash out", whether to fiat or to fiat-denominated prepaid access (e.g. Amazon gift codes). So most of the value of BTC is not in "what I can trade for it now", but my expectations that in the future, BTC will bloom into a currency in its own right, and I will be able to trade a bitcoin for far more than dinner for two (the current cash-out exchange rate).

But that trust in the future can't hang on as trust forever. Sooner or later, people need to start trading valuable things for BTC. If they don't, then sooner or later the people waiting for BTC to become valuable will lose interest, and sell their coins. Speculation is speculative - tentative - able to create a downward spiral if long-term confidence that the bitcoin universe will become an economy proper ever runs out.

Whereas, spending BTC today helps create that future world for which the speculative players (and, frankly, most of us on this forum) are hoping.

Now, I'm not saying speculators are evil. If I didn't have the bulk of my BTC tied up at an exchange, I wouldn't be able to "bet on volatility" and thereby help the price stabilize. But a high speculation-to-physical-economy ratio is worrying, because it's a pattern of doubling down on the future without really doing much to help that future arrive. And even though there's not really a way to change it, I can understand why that would make someone bearish on BTC as an asset.

If you think the price isn't right, sign up with Coinbase or BitPay or one of those services. Give your customers the option to pay with BTC - be part of the solution - without exposing yourself to the risk of the fluctuating exchange rate.

I do not have a misunderstanding of bitcoin. lets do one question at a time. I dont have the effort to write essays in here.This article explains way btc speculation is bad. I can also say the I have 200 customers that I am not selling btc to because they are hard to get right now and I cant hold them because the price isn't right.  

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/42429739154/bitcoin-ends-january-up-51-largest-monthly

People like sublime exist everywhere. Use them as practice for speaking with others irl. His misgivings and disinformation are unfortunately the norm, not the exception. Bitcoin will not gain popular adoption until the brainwashing, ignorance, and lies of the current regime are addressed and debunked. Practice makes perfect


What issue do you see arising from hoarding coins? How will increased spending fix that issue? Why do you view speculative investment as bad for Bitcoin, and why do you think this won't occur with any cryptocurrency?


Why do you think there aren't people doing exactly that? Why do you feel Bitcoin requires its users to help do what it was designed to do? Do you need to help a shovel be a shovel, or a horse be a horse?



What improvements will the new currency have over Bitcoin that will cause people to adopt it instead of Bitcoin? Why do you feel these improvements cannot be adopted by Bitcoin? On a deeper level, I believe you may be implying the current price of BTC is due to speculation. Why do you believe BTC are overvalued? What technical basis do you have for this belief?



Again, this statement implies Bitcoin is overvalued at best, a pyramid scheme at worst. What are you basing this assumption on?



I'm afraid this is completely false. Deals quite often are beneficial to one party while being detrimental to the other. As an example; A homeowner whose home is foreclosed on by the loan holder may be purchased by a third party for significantly less than the value of the home. The third party benefits on the deal, while the original homeowner loses. Your assumption, while altruistic, is not indicative of reality.


Who will force Bitcoin to do what is right? Who, or what, do you believe Bitcoin is?

I respect you opinion but I do disagree. People dont hoard tulip bulbs any more. Computer code is not the way to hold wealth but is an excellent way to send it.  So when a coin is out there that is used and not held it will win out, if bitcoin can become it will grow if not it will end quick as myspace. 

I think bubbles are mostly unavoidable right now. The market isn't mature. But that means that if you take a strategy that bets on volatility, you can help stabilize the price and make money at the same time. And the more people making money that way, the more stable the market becomes.

As for crooks... I think the biggest suggestion I have is to rein in the ongoing meme of selling Bitcoin based on its potential for growth. Most of us are bullish here. Some think BTC can take over a significant fraction of the online payment universe, in which case bitcoins will be worth hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. Some think BTC might start replacing fiat currency wholesale, in which case you've got an even bigger growth potential.

The problem is that getting new people into Bitcoin via these kinds of arguments is screwing up the community. There's a lot of folks who aren't technically apt but are smart with their money, and if you tell them about Bitcoin's growth potential their HYIP flag will go up and they'll stop caring. But if you talk to someone with a lot of hope but not a lot of hard knocks, it sounds like this huge, awesome idea, and they'll buy in. And that's the kind of person that has attracted conmen to the community ever since things took off in early 2011.

So I guess my specific suggestion is, if you're evangelizing, evangelize about how it's a currency that can be transferred online, without having to trust a third party that (coughpaypalcough) can freeze all your money arbitrarily when you need it most. Evangelize about how you can use this system even if you don't trust the BTC/USD exchange rate, because there's services that'll automatically turn your internet monopoly money into "real" fiat as part of checkout. If you focus on the huge growth potential, no matter how true it might be, you will attract naive fools and conmen, and repel smart money, and that's a great way to turn an economy and a community into a scam-infested byword.

Edit: In response to the original post, I'll just echo what other people have been saying and point out that the price of peanut butter hasn't doubled in the last two months.

So you expect a crowd that is less into hoarding and more into doing things "for the coin" will join alt-coin projects?  Why couldn't people get burned just as easily on alt coins? (hint: they have already)

Lots of people ARE doing great things on Bitcoin's front.  Not much is being done for other alt-coins.  So why do you say that Bitcoin has failed and alt-coins have not, when it appears to be exactly the opposite?

People will speculate and hoard ANYTHING.  Nothing you can do will stop that.  Learn to live with that aspect of a decentralized currency, because it is here to stay.

With a limited supply and upwards potential (if bitcoin succeed in the end), then naturally people will hoard, this is not something anyone can control. It is the natural course of action.
actually, without speculators and hoarders, bitcoin may not reach its value in the end. Since these hoarders/speculators are backers of bitcoin, maintaining a price when there isn't so much economic activity. Just as someone in this borad posted, they want to become the "new elite", there is no social good intentions in many people's investing decisions and this is probably shouldn't be blamed either.

Anyone, bitcoin opens the box and genie is out, digital p2p currency will become a reality in the future (maybe some other xxxcoin, but who knows, bitcoin is still the leading candidate).

Specifically people can stop hoarding coins and use them as currency not just a speculative investment. Specifically people can start saying what can I do for bitcoin not what can bitcoin do for me, but that is not going to happen. What is going to happen is another coin will compete with bitcoin driving the price way down and crushing a lot people in the process. Bitcoins are just hot potatoes right now someone is going to get burned. Deals aren't good deals if they aren't good for everyone. What I am complaining about is not "just the way it has to be" it is just the way users have made it. Bitcoin can and will do better it just might have to be forced into doing what is right.

The US is ahead in the money printing race, so the Euro is gaining (6,4% since November), that might explain less buying of Bitcoin from Europe?

The "flaws" you point out (bubbles and busts, full of crooks, etc) are a natural byproduct of the design of Bitcoins.  Complaining about them is annoying, because they cannot be fixed by anything but increased usage of Bitcoin.  In fact, complaining at all is annoying - instead, make specific suggestions to specific people about what they can do to help make Bitcoin better.

No you dont get it at all. I love bitcoin . Seriously I think it is the coolest most powerful thing that I have ever seen. I am a true believer in P2P currency. It really think that it is going to radically change the world. I am so crazy that I think it will end war and government and distribute the wealth more evenly. I think individuals being their own bank is awesome I mean truly awesome. What I dont like is how a bunch of assholes are ruining it and driving people away.

Go away... please, just leave.  We get it - you don't like Bitcoin.  So move on with your life and leave the rest of us to it.

Bitcoin is in a greed and speculation induced bubble. The bitcoin community is full of crooks. I think that there are unrealistic expectations and a lot of ignorance fueling this mania. It is starting to look like a bad ending to me, series of bubbles and burst new adopters abandoning the currency for a simpler to use, secure and more stable. Maybe competition would help to level bitcoin out. Right now there is a monopoly on anonymous digital currency I hope that changes fast. I am going to be pushing ltc and any other digital coins that come out. I dont know if you can tell but i dont like what is being done with bitcoin. 

If the USD loses 50% of its value in 1 month we will ALL be working in law enforcement

This is goldbug like mentality and seems not aligned with what market has said. (Gold is in a chocking mode, bitcoin is as volatilie as a butterfly and up more than 50% in a few months , even though bitcoin supply is increaseing at the moment)

Maybe long-term wise, USD is doomed to loose value, but not now, at least not a pace that is in any significance.

If the USD lost 50% of its value in 1 month I wouldn't like to be working in law enforcement.

In other news, man continues to struggle with proper spelling.