Topic: [BTC-TC] LTC-ATF.B2 (Bond paying 0.05% per day interest) (Read 7342 times)

Understood. Thanks.

I paid out full face value on them by dividend days ago - check your dividend history.

You'll have a dividend there of .01 BTC each.

I did it by dividend rather than buyback to save you (and me) the transaction fee.

I still own 101 LTC-ATF.B2 contracts on btct.co. Any chance I can get my money back for those? Or are they worthless now?

Edit: Woops, wrong thread

Yeah, your website will be great, I am looking forward to it. Crypto securities are in a bubble far superior to the dot com one in 2000. Most securities are overpriced by 3-10 times and more. There are funds which buy overpriced assets, but their share value is overpriced even for their NAV which already is overpriced. ))

Yeah - kind of expected this to happen but quite to that extreme.

It's a very common issue with offerings that :

Look reliable
Have a small market cap

There's handful on LTC-Global that are trading in totally artifical price-ranges - where one person grabbed a large number, placed high asks, placed a few small bids to fill the gap then buys from their own sales to make it look like the range is actively being traded in.  One of the things I plan to cover on my website is the securities where this is the case - as well as the mining companies where the arrival of a few ASICs has massively increased the price to a point where they're actually demonstrably worse value than even over-priced PMBs (let alone the more reasonably priced ones).

[13:54] [BTCTC] [LTC-ATF.B2] 6 @ 0.0189 = 0.1134 BTC

Well they sold out in less than an hour.

And already someone bought a few at 40% over face value from a reseller - it would take years to make back that 40% from the interest.

I'd put up an order myself to stop massive over-charging but:

1.  I only sell at face value unless there's bids up.
2.  I'd be accused of profiteering - even if the intention was just to stop people losing more by buying higher from resellers.
3.  They'd just get bought out and resold higher anyway.

If bids rise high I WILL sell into them - but the fund won't place Asks other than at .01 itself (and will NEVER try to drive the price up by bidding itself above face value without advance disclosure).  Reason I'll sell into bids is simple : I already know I'll be selling another batch in a week or two (once our next security is launched - but before that I have some other things that need to be done).  So if bids rise to a level where they cover more than a few weeks interest then the fund is better off selling now and returning some of the extra as dividends than waiting until the cash is actually needed.

DO NOT BUY THESE AT A LARGE MARKUP TO FACE VALE - YOU'RE GIVING AWAY MONEY YOU WON'T GET BACK.

I'd recommend against paying more than a few percent over face value and never pay more than 5% over face - you should never buy ANY security at above the price the issuer is entitled to do a call at unless there's a guarantee of some kind that there won't be a call for a significant period of time (or it's as part of a short-term trade).

The initial 5000 are up for sale now - as expected there weren't many orders waiting (which is why I wasn't going to bother scheduling release until someone asked).

First dividend will be later today.

There won't be any news relating to these - so I won't be bumping the thread at all other than if A new batch is placed or if the interest rate is increased (unlikely at present as the cash isn't needed badly).

LTC-ATF's results (and the ratios relevant to bonds) can of course be checked in its thread - though those will be moving to my own website before long where I'll be able to give more detailed and up to date reporting (I'm hoping to use an embedded spreadsheet so anyone can see the valuation and breakdown at any time not just when I produce weekly reports).

Yeah fixed that before you posted.

The bid for 2000 at 0.0099 is the fund's own - that's the guaranteed buy-back offered, so it'll be available as soon as any are sold.

50,000 is 500 BTC worth.

This has now been approved on BTC-TC.

I'll be aiming to release the initial batch of 5,000 at 14:00 tomorrow (just over 24 hours from now).  That MAY be delayed as I made a minor error and only created the bond with 1k shares (I must have not saved the change after I increased it).  Will need to get burnside to change that (issuers can't increase shares) - but hopefully that'll be done by tomorrow.

Face value is 0.01.  I strongly recommend NOT bidding any significant amount over that.

I honestly wasn't going to bother as initially there'll only be 50 BTC worth sold.  But as you asked, and as we don't need the cash urgently, I'll give 24 hours notice for the first batch.  Thereafter I'll try to give notice where it can be scheduled - but when bonds are sold for a short-term need (typically some new opportunity where I don't want to pull cash away from existing ones) then they'll just be sold/placed without announcement.

It just seems unlikely to me that with such a low rate of return people are going to outbid one another on it.

Will there be a notice here on the forum prior to the initial offering of the security? How much time in advance?

Good point; it would have to be a much more concerted effort to run with everything from BTCT than just one large overnight withdrawal.

I should also mention is much harder for Deprived or me to run with the coins:

1) Your btc doesn't sit there on coinlenders, if I run borrowers will default or repay to people with claims. I'm also not going to have much luck selling my assets tied to me. You will have to take my word for that, because it is not beneficial for me to disclose CL's exact holdings.

Also Inputs will be full reserve (by default).

2) Deprived isn't going to be able to cash out his btct.co assets because if Burnside sees he sold everything and made a manual withdrawal request, he's going to think he was hacked if nothing else.


Whereas with Just Dice dooglus has 20+K coins in cold storage and COULD (not saying he would) disappear in the woods one day. Nobody has tested large withdrawals. (Eg for CL it has got to half of peak amount before, I've got plenty of hundred BTC withdrawals due to investors wanting out to convert to fiat)

He has proven himself trustworthy to me before with how he handled WBX and such, but of course you should research and judge all investments yourself.

Nice catch

"sexurities". Typo of the day! 

It's very great that you're discussing all the insides so openly - thanks. My coins are atm diversified between coinlenders, just-dice, AM shares and DMS (SELLING, but ssshhht, don't tell a soul! )

I should add to the above that, at present, Just-Dice represents a statistically better investment than EITHER of Coinlenders/LTC-ATF.B2 - provided you have equal trust in dooglus to TF/myself and don't mind the risk of loss (you CAN lose capital with Just-Dice but the EV of it is still higher).

DMS (which I run) invests in both Coinlenders AND Just-Dice - so I personally consider both fine risk-wise and accept both will be better options for some (maybe many) people.

It's not my intention to claim this is the best investment around - that would be silly as LTC-ATF.B1 is definitely superior (if you can get it at face value) for one thing.  I'm trying to pay the lowest I can whilst still selling as much as I want to (which isn't a lot) - if I'm wrong then I'll raise the rate until it sells.  I make no bones about the fact I'm trying to get capital cheaply - I would be doing a disservice to investors in LTC-ATF were I to do otherwise.