[BTC-TC][ASICMINER-100PT] - Public trading of 1% Interest in ASICMINER shares

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: Deprived on May 12, 2013, 09:53:20 PM

Would have thought providing the address linked to the ASIC-MINER shares (to prove you have them) and signing a message with the address (to prove it's yours) would be fine.

I tend to agree that having an escrow is pretty pointless - if people don't trust you at all then they should just not buy your shares. Proving you actually have ASICMINER shares (rather than just promising to buy some - as was initially the case) was the more serious issue in my view : pass-throughs should own the underlying assets before selling them on.

I am glad we're on the same page.

The lack of proof of ownership was pointed out on day 1, and fixed promptly (although it seems I failed to record the specifics of when that change was made).

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Rodyland on May 12, 2013, 08:16:27 PM

Quote from: Deprived on May 12, 2013, 04:59:07 PM

Last update you gave here was that you were looking for an escrow - if one was found that it could be a good idea to say so (and have them confirm it).

Realised I didn't address this specific point in my previous reply.

After discussion with multiple escrow providers, it was concluded by me that this is not an option. One of the points of the PT is to provide the escrow. One of the not-insignificant pieces of work is managing shares into and out of the escrow (especially in a PT like mine that supports transfers), and managing distribution of dividends from the escrow to the shareholders. To contract (and pay for) a 3rd party to provide share escrow on behalf of the PT is just not a feasible option.

As a backup for disaster recovery I will be providing a copy of the PT's private key to a trusted 3rd party - details are still to be decided, it's not worth even discussing if the IPO doesn't happen.

If providing my own shares into the IPO, making the address holding the PT's shares public, and providing my personal IRL contact details (including phone number) to burnside is not enough transparency, then so be it - I can't think of anything else that I would be willing to offer that would change your mind.

Would have thought providing the address linked to the ASIC-MINER shares (to prove you have them) and signing a message with the address (to prove it's yours) would be fine.

I tend to agree that having an escrow is pretty pointless - if people don't trust you at all then they should just not buy your shares. Proving you actually have ASICMINER shares (rather than just promising to buy some - as was initially the case) was the more serious issue in my view : pass-throughs should own the underlying assets before selling them on.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: Deprived on May 12, 2013, 04:59:07 PM

Last update you gave here was that you were looking for an escrow - if one was found that it could be a good idea to say so (and have them confirm it).

Realised I didn't address this specific point in my previous reply.

After discussion with multiple escrow providers, it was concluded by me that this is not an option. One of the points of the PT is to provide the escrow. One of the not-insignificant pieces of work is managing shares into and out of the escrow (especially in a PT like mine that supports transfers), and managing distribution of dividends from the escrow to the shareholders. To contract (and pay for) a 3rd party to provide share escrow on behalf of the PT is just not a feasible option.

As a backup for disaster recovery I will be providing a copy of the PT's private key to a trusted 3rd party - details are still to be decided, it's not worth even discussing if the IPO doesn't happen.

If providing my own shares into the IPO, making the address holding the PT's shares public, and providing my personal IRL contact details (including phone number) to burnside is not enough transparency, then so be it - I can't think of anything else that I would be willing to offer that would change your mind.

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Rodyland on May 12, 2013, 07:12:11 PM

Quote from: Deprived on May 12, 2013, 04:59:07 PM

Quote from: Rodyland on May 11, 2013, 06:34:56 PM

Quote from: tolan77 on May 11, 2013, 04:38:58 PM

I am very interested in this solely because you will be allowing transfer of fractional shares to PT/Real shares which TaT doesn't.Definitely understand a small fee though.The only reason I haven't bought any of his yet. Will be watching this closely.

Glad to hear it. I too think that share transfer is a valuable feature.

I am still waiting for the owners of btc-tc to vote to approve my listing.

I think you still need to address the issue raised - that you were trying to sell shares in the pass-through without owning any shares of ASICMINER. If that's been resolved then you need to amend your contract to reflect the change. Last update you gave here was that you were looking for an escrow - if one was found that it could be a good idea to say so (and have them confirm it).

As far as I can tell that's the only stated reason why anyone hasn't voted yes - so maybe if you address it you'll get the votes you need.

Please reread the offer. The ownership issue has been addressed, some time ago.

It was never my intention to sell shares without already having the necessary backing. It was my intention to find extra shares to back the IPO to avoid selling my personal holdings. At all times i had my personal holding as a fallback. And since I have been unable to secure alternatives, these personal shares are now committed to the IPO should it eventually happen.

Furthermore i have committed to making the address holding the PT shares public - something none of the other PTs I'm aware of have done.

If you can point out where in my offering the language used isn't clear I would be very appreciative.

Sorry for hijacking, but I wanted to be clear that TAT asserts ownership of all shares it sells (and more). At the moment I do so on request, but on Wednesday I will be issuing a full report of all holdings I have on all exchanges, and with Friedcat, and how anyone can verify what I sell.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: Deprived on May 12, 2013, 04:59:07 PM

Quote from: Rodyland on May 11, 2013, 06:34:56 PM

Quote from: tolan77 on May 11, 2013, 04:38:58 PM

I am very interested in this solely because you will be allowing transfer of fractional shares to PT/Real shares which TaT doesn't.Definitely understand a small fee though.The only reason I haven't bought any of his yet. Will be watching this closely.

Glad to hear it. I too think that share transfer is a valuable feature.

I am still waiting for the owners of btc-tc to vote to approve my listing.

I think you still need to address the issue raised - that you were trying to sell shares in the pass-through without owning any shares of ASICMINER. If that's been resolved then you need to amend your contract to reflect the change. Last update you gave here was that you were looking for an escrow - if one was found that it could be a good idea to say so (and have them confirm it).

As far as I can tell that's the only stated reason why anyone hasn't voted yes - so maybe if you address it you'll get the votes you need.

Please reread the offer. The ownership issue has been addressed, some time ago.

It was never my intention to sell shares without already having the necessary backing. It was my intention to find extra shares to back the IPO to avoid selling my personal holdings. At all times i had my personal holding as a fallback**. And since I have been unable to secure alternatives, these personal shares are now committed to the IPO should it eventually happen.

Furthermore i have committed to making the address holding the PT shares public - something none of the other PTs I'm aware of have done.

If you can point out where in my offering the language used isn't clear I would be very appreciative.

**EDIT: The transaction history on the address shows that I've owned those shares some time before I announced the launch of this PT.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Rodyland on May 11, 2013, 06:34:56 PM

Quote from: tolan77 on May 11, 2013, 04:38:58 PM

I am very interested in this solely because you will be allowing transfer of fractional shares to PT/Real shares which TaT doesn't.Definitely understand a small fee though.The only reason I haven't bought any of his yet. Will be watching this closely.

Glad to hear it. I too think that share transfer is a valuable feature.

I am still waiting for the owners of btc-tc to vote to approve my listing.

I think you still need to address the issue raised - that you were trying to sell shares in the pass-through without owning any shares of ASICMINER. If that's been resolved then you need to amend your contract to reflect the change. Last update you gave here was that you were looking for an escrow - if one was found that it could be a good idea to say so (and have them confirm it).

As far as I can tell that's the only stated reason why anyone hasn't voted yes - so maybe if you address it you'll get the votes you need.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: tolan77 on May 11, 2013, 04:38:58 PM

I am very interested in this solely because you will be allowing transfer of fractional shares to PT/Real shares which TaT doesn't.Definitely understand a small fee though.The only reason I haven't bought any of his yet. Will be watching this closely.

Glad to hear it. I too think that share transfer is a valuable feature.

I am still waiting for the owners of btc-tc to vote to approve my listing.

tolan77

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 100

I am very interested in this solely because you will be allowing transfer of fractional shares to PT/Real shares which TaT doesn't.Definitely understand a small fee though.The only reason I haven't bought any of his yet. Will be watching this closely.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

The good shareholders of LTC-GLOBAL have done their duty and picked holes in my offering, and as it is my commitment to provide what the market wants, I am fixing those deficiencies.

The ASICMINER shares held by the passthrough, backing the shares on issue, will be held in escrow. I am currently searching for a trusted escrow provider willing to perform such a duty.

Thanks.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

To all those able to vote on btc-tc, this asset is now open for approval:

https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-100PT

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Lead Blockchain Developer

BTC-TC Admin's Note: Rodyland and I are linked up on linked in. I have Rodyland's number and have talked with Rodyland on the phone.

This is not a promotion of the offering, just stating that Rodyland was willing to give up his number and undergo a very brief interview.

Cheers.

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: talnted on May 02, 2013, 02:29:13 PM

Wait so are we really about to have 2 new pass throughs that do exactly the same thing??

Burnside can you please pick one and deny the other.

Impossible to do given they're unique offerings. (Someone should do a point by point comparison.)

We do also have precedent for multiple passthru's, despite their similarity. I lean more toward letting the issuers decide if they want to compete, and letting the market make the most of what is available.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: talnted on May 02, 2013, 02:29:13 PM

Wait so are we really about to have 2 new pass throughs that do exactly the same thing??

Burnside can you please pick one and deny the other.

I believe there are two Satoshi dice listings on btc-tc?

I think the plan is to let the market decide which passthrough provides the features that are in demand.

talnted

full member

Activity: 236

Merit: 100

www.bitcoingem.com

Wait so are we really about to have 2 new pass throughs that do exactly the same thing??

Burnside can you please pick one and deny the other.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Added an FAQ section - the rest of the document is pretty wordy. I'll be putting the FAQ on a page on btc-tc when the stock goes live.

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: burnside on May 01, 2013, 07:03:02 PM

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 01, 2013, 03:25:50 PM

You know, building a service with the btct.co/bf API that allows purchase of fractional shares for anything would be cool.

I am curious as to how the brokers that allow this pull it off. Do they just always keep a few shares of every asset on hand to split out fractionally in-house?

Yes, all you would have to do is tolerate the risk of holding or being short <1 share at any given time. As a portion of trading fees it would be easy for the exchanges to tolerate the risk.

And it would be a lot simpler than management of a fractional pass-through.

I'll look into the technical requirements and run some use case models. Appreciate the input!

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: burnside on May 01, 2013, 07:03:02 PM

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 01, 2013, 03:25:50 PM

You know, building a service with the btct.co/bf API that allows purchase of fractional shares for anything would be cool.

I am curious as to how the brokers that allow this pull it off. Do they just always keep a few shares of every asset on hand to split out fractionally in-house?

That would almost certainly be the case. No share settlement facility I'm aware of (and I'm aware of several - I work in the industry) allows partial shareholdings. Any fractional holding would almost certainly be a broker-backed equivalent of a passthrough. If anyone can point me towards any such thing in the "real world", please send a link - I'm quite curious.

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 01, 2013, 03:25:50 PM

You know, building a service with the btct.co/bf API that allows purchase of fractional shares for anything would be cool.

I am curious as to how the brokers that allow this pull it off. Do they just always keep a few shares of every asset on hand to split out fractionally in-house?

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1004

Lead Blockchain Developer

Quote from: talnted on May 01, 2013, 12:12:59 PM

I might be interested if there was someone else running this. I am also not a fan of management fees, hence why I stick to DeadTerra's BitFunder passthrough

Running a PT as popular as ASICMINER takes a significant amount of time. As an investor, it is in your interest to compensate the manager for their time. It keeps them motivated to do things like issue the divs on time and answer your emails. Wink

(all of DeaDTerra's other passthroughs have a 5% fee.)

This is also a unique service you can't get elsewhere. I think the target audience (people that want to invest less than 1.2 BTC at a time) is going to appreciate the unique service being provided and not going to mind the management fees much.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on May 01, 2013, 12:16:23 PM

There is someone more reputable managing an asset like this, that also already owns a significant amount of shares to get things started.

You mean you?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitfunder-tatasicminer-new-micro-share-passthrough-192498
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-tc-tatasicminer-new-micro-share-passthrough-192499

Seriously, good luck, I hope it's a success.

Topic: [BTC-TC][ASICMINER-100PT] - Public trading of 1% Interest in ASICMINER shares (Read 3963 times)