BTC transfer are too damn slow! - page 5.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: BitcoinBobbeh on April 18, 2014, 11:08:24 AM

Quote from: vpitcher07 on April 18, 2014, 10:06:58 AM

Quote from: BitcoinBobbeh on April 18, 2014, 10:05:07 AM

Quote from: vpitcher07 on April 18, 2014, 09:41:52 AM

Are you kidding? A transfer takes less than a second...

I'm gonna need about 10 minutes to confirm your post.

...And give me 0.0001 BTC, too.

He said transfers not confirmations. There's a huge difference....

If you can name a place that gives you goods and services before your payment is confirmed, please let me know so I can begin scamming them for being dumb.

I personally do many exchanges without waiting for confirmations. It all depends on the trust relationship between the sender and the receiver. If I know where you live, and/or where you work, and/or who many of your friends or family are, I'll happily sell you stuff in exchange for 0 confirmation bitcoin transactions. If you scam me, I WILL come collect what is mine.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 11:08:15 AM

Interesting. I'll try it next time. I thought coins had to be full confirmed before they could be spent.

The number of confirmations required depends on the wallet you are using.

Some wallets require 1 confirmation. Some wallets require 3 confirmations. Some wallets require 6 confirmations.

The phrase "full confirmed" is a "rule of thumb" for people who don't understand the protocol. To protect them from their lack of knowledge, the creators of early wallets built in a concept of a transaction not being displayed as "completely confirmed" until it has 6 confirmations. This is a user interface implementation and not a rule of the protocol.

Creators of later wallets reduced the number of confirmations they required.

Dogtanian

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Quote from: Gazza1 on April 18, 2014, 11:12:38 AM

10 minute per confirm is too long when exchanges require 3-6+

It has nothing to do with patience, but everything to do with time is money.

That's the exchanges fault for making them rules.

Gazza1

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10 minute per confirm is too long when exchanges require 3-6+

It has nothing to do with patience, but everything to do with time is money.

superresistant

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I also wonder, how does the priority system work ?

I know that it is related to the localisation. What about the amount of fees ?

Would it be possible to specialize miners or a pool to confirm specific transactions in priority ?

BitcoinBobbeh

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: vpitcher07 on April 18, 2014, 10:06:58 AM

Quote from: BitcoinBobbeh on April 18, 2014, 10:05:07 AM

Quote from: vpitcher07 on April 18, 2014, 09:41:52 AM

Are you kidding? A transfer takes less than a second...

I'm gonna need about 10 minutes to confirm your post.

...And give me 0.0001 BTC, too.

He said transfers not confirmations. There's a huge difference....

If you can name a place that gives you goods and services before your payment is confirmed, please let me know so I can begin scamming them for being dumb.

Dogtanian

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: DannyHamilton on April 18, 2014, 10:47:10 AM

Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 10:20:00 AM

Quote from: CoinDiver on April 18, 2014, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 10:11:28 AM

What's the quickest time one will take to fully confirm?

Define "fully confirm"...

Anyone who states bitcoin is too slow is either lying, or ignorant.

You know, be able to spend the coins you receive.

I've spent coins within 1 second of receiving them where the transaction that I received them in had 0 confirmations. Due to the transaction malleability issue, this won't always work, but it typically does.

Once a transaction has a single confirmation, it can be reliably spent 99+% of the time.

If you are unable to do so, then that is a limitation that the wallet you've chosen to use is placing on you. It is not a limitation of the bitcoin protocol.

(Note, there is an exception for newly mined bitcoins. Those are required by the protocol to have 100 confirmations before you can spend them)

Interesting. I'll try it next time. I thought coins had to be full confirmed before they could be spent.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: GenTarkin on April 18, 2014, 10:51:19 AM

Technically a fully confirmed transaction has 6 confirmations ...

Technically, there is no such thing as "fully confirmed". 6 confirmations is a "rule of thumb", than many wallets have chosen to implement. There are other wallets that require other numbers of confirmations. There is nothing about 6 confirmations that makes it more special than 5 confirmations or 7 confirmations.

Quote from: GenTarkin on April 18, 2014, 10:51:19 AM

Up to 6 confirmations there are several documented attack vectors that can be used against it....

Any attack vector that works against 5 confirmations, also works against 6 confirmations (it just costs more and requires more hardware).

Quote from: GenTarkin on April 18, 2014, 10:51:19 AM

It just hasnt happened because the cost of doing so, is astronomically high.

Much like anything in computer security, it all can be hacked, but time & cost make many attacks not worth it.

So, then, what does "fully confirmed" mean?

GenTarkin

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on April 18, 2014, 10:50:19 AM

Quote from: superresistant on April 18, 2014, 10:46:23 AM

I wonder something...

How does mining difficulty affect transaction speed ?

Mining difficulty adjusts automatically every 2016 blocks to try to keep the confirmation speed close to 10 minutes per additional confirmation after the first confirmation.

The difficulty has no direct effect on transaction speed. Transaction speed directly depends entirely on how well connected your wallet (and your recipient's wallet) is to the rest of the network, what the internet bandwidth is of the peers, and whether your transaction has extremely small outputs.

Yeah, transaction broadcast speed is quite amazing actually.

GenTarkin

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Technically a fully confirmed transaction has 6 confirmations ...

Up to 6 confirmations there are several documented attack vectors that can be used against it....

It just hasnt happened because the cost of doing so, is astronomically high.

Much like anything in computer security, it all can be hacked, but time & cost make many attacks not worth it.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3416

Merit: 4658

Quote from: superresistant on April 18, 2014, 10:46:23 AM

I wonder something...

How does mining difficulty affect transaction speed ?

Mining difficulty adjusts automatically every 2016 blocks to try to keep the confirmation speed close to 10 minutes per additional confirmation after the first confirmation.

The difficulty has no direct effect on transaction speed. Transaction speed directly depends entirely on how well connected your wallet (and your recipient's wallet) is to the rest of the network, what the internet bandwidth is of the peers, and whether your transaction has extremely small outputs.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3416

Merit: 4658

Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 10:20:00 AM

Quote from: CoinDiver on April 18, 2014, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 10:11:28 AM

What's the quickest time one will take to fully confirm?

Define "fully confirm"...

Anyone who states bitcoin is too slow is either lying, or ignorant.

You know, be able to spend the coins you receive.

I've spent coins within 1 second of receiving them where the transaction that I received them in had 0 confirmations. Due to the transaction malleability issue, this won't always work, but it typically does.

Once a transaction has a single confirmation, it can be reliably spent 99+% of the time.

If you are unable to do so, then that is a limitation that the wallet you've chosen to use is placing on you. It is not a limitation of the bitcoin protocol.

(Note, there is an exception for newly mined bitcoins. Those are required by the protocol to have 100 confirmations before you can spend them)

superresistant

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1125

I wonder something...

How does mining difficulty affect transaction speed ?

Dogtanian

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: CoinDiver on April 18, 2014, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 10:11:28 AM

What's the quickest time one will take to fully confirm?

Define "fully confirm"...

Anyone who states bitcoin is too slow is either lying, or ignorant.

You know, be able to spend the coins you receive.

CoinDiver

hero member

Activity: 778

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Dogtanian on April 18, 2014, 10:11:28 AM

What's the quickest time one will take to fully confirm?

Define "fully confirm"...

Anyone who states bitcoin is too slow is either lying, or ignorant.

Dogtanian

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Quote from: franky1 on April 18, 2014, 10:07:35 AM

posting a cheque my mail - maybe next day to deliver - 3-5 business days to clear
wire transfer - 3-5 days in america
cash - instant, although ATM's have daily limits for larger amount

bitcoin - receive instantly - clears in 10 minutes if you pay a greedy mining pool

the fix for bitcoin if you are talking about greedy mining pools delaying confirmations is to stop them taxing bitcoins with 5c fee's that not many people want to pay. if it were 0.5c maximum, people would pay.

i hope not to see a reply that fe's prevent spam. as that idea is stupid. blocks are only 10% filled on average. and bitcoin can code different rules such as a 3 confirm requirement between spends. this would make it so spammers cant fill up every block.. just every third block.

after all we are suppose to be allowing microtransactions, not preventing them. so that news media subscriptions, vending machines and small priced products can be bought, advertising commissions can be transferred instantly in small amounts instead of accumulated to send in batches. all without a 5c fee being added.

I've never had a transaction confirm in 10 minutes. What's the quickest time one will take to fully confirm?

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4214

Merit: 4458

posting a cheque my mail - maybe next day to deliver - 3-5 business days to clear
wire transfer - 3-5 days in america
cash - instant, although ATM's have daily limits for larger amount

bitcoin - receive instantly - clears in 10 minutes if you pay a greedy mining pool

the fix for bitcoin if you are talking about greedy mining pools delaying confirmations is to stop them taxing bitcoins with 5c fee's that not many people want to pay. if it were 0.5c maximum, people would pay.

i hope not to see a reply that fe's prevent spam. as that idea is stupid. blocks are only 10% filled on average. and bitcoin can code different rules such as a 3 confirm requirement between spends. this would make it so spammers cant fill up every block.. just every third block.

after all we are suppose to be allowing microtransactions, not preventing them. so that news media subscriptions, vending machines and small priced products can be bought, advertising commissions can be transferred instantly in small amounts instead of accumulated to send in batches. all without a 5c fee being added.

vpitcher07

sr. member

Activity: 342

Merit: 250

Quote from: BitcoinBobbeh on April 18, 2014, 10:05:07 AM

Quote from: vpitcher07 on April 18, 2014, 09:41:52 AM

Are you kidding? A transfer takes less than a second...

I'm gonna need about 10 minutes to confirm your post.

...And give me 0.0001 BTC, too.

He said transfers not confirmations. There's a huge difference....

BitcoinBobbeh

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: vpitcher07 on April 18, 2014, 09:41:52 AM

Are you kidding? A transfer takes less than a second...

I'm gonna need about 10 minutes to confirm your post.

...And give me 0.0001 BTC, too.

vpitcher07

sr. member

Activity: 342

Merit: 250

Are you kidding? A transfer takes less than a second...

Topic: BTC transfer are too damn slow! - page 5. (Read 6048 times)