Topic: BTC transfer issue in Electrum - Help me understand what happened? (Read 454 times)

No, i don't see him making use of new address base on how he described the issue about the buyer to have sent two transactions to his wallet address after he went to sleep and the wallet  Hanna provided does receive two transactions (on 2020-02-26 @ 20:38, 19:34 0.14085565BTC and 0.23615234BTC respectively). Besides, it not possible for the buyer to send him 4 transactions while the first business is yet to be executed.

Soldierswitlittlefaith, clipboard malware is very old threat and most security software will detect/block/remove such malware. Of course, hackers are constantly trying to make improved versions that are difficult to detect, so you need to make address checks before every transaction.

Hardware wallets can help with that, as each transaction must be confirmed by pressing a button before which is possible to verify that the address on the computer screen matches that of the hardware wallet device. Of course, the check should include more than 3 or 4 first/last characters, because back in 2018 there was a base of 2.3 million addresses used by hackers, and the swapped addresses can often be very similar to legitimate ones.

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It is possible that Hanna is decided to use a new address from Electrum, not the one originally mentioned. In any case, only she can answer that question.

I think Loyce was asking why the BTC in question still hasn't appeared at that address when OP stated that the transaction has now been made.

I don't see why that would make any difference. Clipboard malware detects that what you have copied to the clipboard was a bitcoin address, and alters it so when you paste a different address is pasted. I don't see why copying and pasting several times would change that behavior, as every time you copy your real address, it will be changed to the attacker's address before you paste it. The only way to be 100% safe is to double and triple check the entire address you have pasted (not just a couple of characters at the start or end) with what is displayed in your wallet.

I am also happy that your problem has been solved. When I read your post at the beginning I was worried because I had created a Localcoin account recently. And I couldn't continue my trading because I needed Fiat fast and I didn't have good offers. For which I withdraw my coin and went to another trading platform.
I have seen how the Localcoin Scrow works just like CryptoWay are very similar. Always complete and verify the transaction.
Thanks for supporting this Venezuelan trader. And is true I am also Venezuelan who uses crypto to buy basic things.

@Lucius, year back i got a trading tutorial from one hacker, that copying pasting & recopying & pasting over again  for the 2x or 3x usually render most of these clipboard malware useless or prevent hacker's from manipulating this address. i taught the is  good idea so i always copy paste my wallet address over & over again whenever i want to  receive coin but, i never got any means to confirm if, this actually work since, i never had such an attack.

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

The language barrier and the different time zones are what caused this misunderstanding. Although it is very clever from the seller to ask for a confirmation of the address, in such cases it would be even better to sign the address. Those who become victims of clipboard malware often blame the seller for cheating on them, though they may be completely innocent.

That's actually a good extra check, to prevent losing funds to clip board malware.

It leaves one question though: why didn't the payment arrive on the address you gave him?

i'm happy for you.

Pls, becareful when trading . also pls, spend some of your leisure hour to get yourself familiar with the beginer's guide.


Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

in future use a different address from the receive tab for every transaction. since you only reveal an address to a specific user for a specific transaction there can never be any confusion about whether the money was sent or not. any money sent to a particular address can be credited to the only person you revealed that address to.

do update your electrum install as well. old versions are not safe. only download from electrum.org.

also lbtc has its own wallet and escrow service. it holds the sellers bitcoin in escrow while transactions are being done. so there was no need to receive money off site during a transaction. you can always withdraw the coins to your wallet later. you got really luck that this person you were dealing with was not a scammer.

I'm really glad that you had a good outcome, but use this as a learning experience. For every honest trader out there, there are an equal number (if not more) of users who are trying to scam you, or will turn in to a scammer for the right amount of money, or are using a hacked or stolen account, and so forth, and this could just have easily gone the other way. If you are trading with someone new whom you don't personally trust, then consider using a trusted escrow, or breaking the trade down in to smaller amounts so you can't lose all your money at once.

Happy we could help. Welcome to the forum.

Great to see you found the members in the forum helpful and am happy to know the issue has been sorted out.

I hope you stick around and become part of the growing friendly community we have here

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

People in this forum are simply amazing. This thread was so informative, everybody so helpful and I have learnt a lot!

Here is the explanation to what happened:
The guy was not very good at English, so he was using Google Translate to read my comments and translate his own responses.
I did not realise this; If I had, I would have used very simple language, and read his comments more carefully, to figure out what he really meant.
He meant to ask me to confirm the BTC Address to send to, again, even though I already given it.
He had not in fact made the transaction but went to bed, awaiting a final confirmation from me, which he thought he had asked for. Combination of language problem and lack of question mark just made the comment turn out wrong for him.
It sounded as if he had sent the BTC and wanted confirmation that it had arrived.
Because of the time differences, I was asleep when he was asking about this,  and couldn't respond. We had already agreed he would send the BTC when the money arrived at his account. He just wanted to be 100% sure about the address.
Then he was asleep as I got confused by his comment.
Now he's up and trading and has sent me the BTC.
Just as I thought - the guy is very nice and completely trustworthy. My female intuition is not so good for love, but for business, it works!

I was particularly happy to be trading with somebody who's using BTC in a "live" situation in Venezuela. Apparently they use it there to buy everyday things + it's enough of a struggle for them, with American blockade, political turmoil, hyper inflation and whatever else is going on.  
I like this guy so much, I'll buy from him again.  His rate was very good too.  I'll just be aware that the World Remit is not always as fast as it ought to be.
 
BIG THANKS TO EVERYBODY WHO HELPED ME LEARN NEW THINGS TODAY!

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In this case, contact WorldRemit as soon as possible and ask to try cancel a transaction :


Or even better contact your bank and explain what happened, I believe they can get the money back. This is not a BTC transaction, which in most cases is irreversible; the whole thing works differently when you use banks/cards.

Just a quick observation,

Guyz never send or SHARE sensitive info's like bank,cc info's or wallet address via Chat - telegram,whatsapp ...this is very risky.

*In this case, i believe both parties chatted through LBC .


Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

@Hanna,


Ok, i see there are lot of senior member's who are will to help you out here.

Pls, i advice you follow what   o_e_l_e_o had suggested earlier because there is something fishy here & we need to figure out this before is too late.  Everything, seem to be ok from your end. 

Note : i hope is nOT what i'm thinking here. Pls, it is possible for you invite him/her to join the conversation on this forum? Atleast, i know some of the senior member's would have loved to ask the buyer one or more question(s)! And,base on your perception of the buyer, he/she should be willing to go to any length in order to resolve this issue. I know the deal is on LBC but, this forum also offer extra support as long as it's related to crypto-currency.

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

The difference of the EUR figure mentioned is just because I sent the money in SEK (Swedish) not in EUR. When writing here, I wanted to mention the price in a currency that people are likely to be familiar with. SEK is not a big currency, so  I just did a very sketchy calculation in my head,to give a rough estimate. Then somebody specifically commented on the sum, so I decided to double check and it turns out I was off and the value in EUR was a little bit higher than I thought.  Exact price for anyone who is really interested, was "Buying 0.07592263 bitcoins for 6,885.00 SEK". This is approx. 611 EUR. Sorry about any confusion.

The payment method he asked for was World Remit, which was new to me. Register and then use your Visa/Mastercard to send money. The seller said the transaction with World Remit would be complete in 1 hour. However, as it turned out, it took close to 4 hours. His window for the transaction, was something like 1.5 hour. Additionally, it was late at night, I was not at my sharpest and aware I needed to go to bed. When the window was nearly up, I was warned by Local Bitcoin Exchange, made a stupid gut reaction, i.e. closing the trade even though the transfer was already made.

As for me handling this the wrong way: I knooooooow!!!  I started out by explaining that I realise that I did everything wrong and that this may be the price I have to pay for learning that lesson. I am angry with myself and feel very stupid.


Yes. I really thought I was dealing with a nice Christian guy who was trading BTC to make a living in Venezuela. I even chatted with him a bit while waiting for the transaction. I am normally very good at telling bad people from good, but of course, I am not God, so I don't know what's in people's heart!

Sometimes CIRCUMSTANCES makes an otherwise honest person behave dishonestly. Here, I had already transferred the money to him and cancelled the trade by mistake. Maybe, sitting there in Venezuela, with all the challenges the people there are facing,  it seemed to him like "money from the sky", simply too good to reject.  He could accept the money and not send any BTC, and probably get away with it. He might not even be sanctioned by Local Bitcoin Exchange. It's between him and his conscience.

I have now asked him to provide the Transaction ID, Re-send the BTC or refund my money
To be continued...

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5

Some scammers are obvious, but others are experienced con artists.

Those accounts also get sold, or hacked.

How 550 EUR from the first post turned into 611 EUR? And can you clarify if this money has already been sent to the alleged seller and what was used as a means of payment? I don't understand why you agreed to the transaction outside of exchange, and why you pay for something in advance (if I understood correctly that the money is already lost)?

Thanks for checking! I recognise those figures you list, because I made two transfers earlier. The time also checks out.
I see the Address in the Addresses section of Electrum.

However, neither of these is the transaction I made with him.
Any transaction he made, would have been later in GMT - around Midnight or 01:00 GMT, by my reckoning.

Okay - that clarifies the situation.
The transaction he's talking about, was not made, and I can confront him about it.  
Odds that he made a mistake, seem pretty slim to me.
I doubt Local Bitcoin Exchange will help me, since the transaction was cancelled and outside their site - but it's worth a try.

I messed up and it seems he took advantage of it. The problem was, it was late at night and the World Remit transfer didn't take <1 hour as advertised, but something like 3.5 hour and this made me lose my calm and act stupidly. I guess 611 EUR goes a long way in Colombia/Venezuela... Maybe from his perspective, it's worth skimming a European who doesn't have her wits about her.
 

- Do you have multiple wallet on localbitcoins.com or blockchain.info?  Answer: No. Just one Local Bitcoing Exchange account - I'm not sure what it's address is. The missing payment was sent to an Electrum address.
- Is the wallet in question an old or new one? Answer: The Electrum wallet in question was set up in 2014 and has been only sporadically used. The Recieving address is constantly refreshed in Electrum though.

- Are you sure, you actually log-in to copy this address when you sent the wallet address to the buyer or you just copied already saved address from your computer?Answer:  Yes, I double checked. I could not have copied another address and I compared before I posted. (See screenshot).

- Finally, do you normally access your coin both on mobile & computer (notebook/desktop...)? Answer: Only on Desktop - I don't have a mobile Wallet.

Thank you for sharing your story, SoldiersWithLittleFaith!