Btc vs dollars | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: Suzume on December 04, 2023, 01:18:18 PM

Obviously bitcoin because we are bitcoin lovers and crypto guy not the reason for crypto guy. We all know the strategy of bitcoin and we all are useto with it. Many of us here liveing their life fully on bitcoin. Bitcoin is the currency made by Satoshi Nakamoto to give profit and make bright future for the bitcoin lovers and investor. We all are know that 1btc = 1btc and it already heppening a lot of time. But $1≠$1 that's the reason bitcoin win and we all stand with bitcoin.

I don't understand your point, to be honest. If you mean that purchasing power of $ is different in different periods of times, so we can say the same of Bitcoin. It's always changing for both currencies, only for Bitcoin it's much more noticeable than for USD. I agree with you that BTC wins the battle, though. In reality you can buy more and more for Bitcoin, and less and less for $$.

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Obviously bitcoin because we are bitcoin lovers and crypto guy not the reason for crypto guy. We all know the strategy of bitcoin and we all are useto with it. Many of us here liveing their life fully on bitcoin. Bitcoin is the currency made by Satoshi Nakamoto to give profit and make bright future for the bitcoin lovers and investor. We all are know that 1btc = 1btc and it already heppening a lot of time. But $1≠$1 that's the reason bitcoin win and we all stand with bitcoin.

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Every currency that existed has disappeared, I think thats just a matter of historical record. Sterling has so greatly degraded from its original sterling silver origins that it has all but disappeared. The russian Ruble for example is exchangeable at 10,000 to 1 for the pre existing Ruble from what it takes its name, ie. it no longer exists and this is a new currency with the same name and so on for every other FIAT money. They all get trashed unfortunately, if you have a gold coin and it was cast right and so on then its going to keep that commodity value forever though some will argue its wasteful vs investing it or whatever but as money it stays otherwise all money disappears. BTC rises largely because dollar is losing so much since its inception and thats arguably its usage in this unique time we may well see the end of some major currencies, Euro has problems YEN is already a zombie though all those countries are great the money system isnt and thats not especially hard to argue but the bigger debate is what better is there. I wont argue against Dollar can be around decades more.

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Quote from: MadHatters on November 27, 2023, 12:52:26 PM

The good thing about the dollar is that you will always have the currency since it is centralized, meanwhile, bitcoin can disappear at some point.

Since dollar is centralized, it means the government and regulators can seize your money at anytime or change the present economic policy of your country, besides it being under heavy devaluation due to inflation. On the other hand, if you have Bitcoins stored under your custody, nobody can take it from you, neither governments. Bitcoin is decentralized, therefore it can't disappear, because there aren't central parties with such powers. Decentralization is in fact the guarantee Bitcoin won't disappear and won't be seized from holders.

What can happen to BTC is to lose value in case demand diminishes, but that is really unlikely to happen for now, as we are seeing the market getting more optimistic towards cryptocurrencies for the year of 2024 onwards.

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Quote from: Patrol69 on December 04, 2023, 05:19:04 AM

Bitcoin is a digital currency and this digital currency is moving forward step by step depending on the investors. The United States, however, has not approved Bitcoin as an alternative to their dollar, nor has it linked Bitcoin directly to the dollar. We can only exchange bitcoins but we cannot directly use bitcoins instead of dollars. For example, if we want, we cannot buy a Lamborghini through Bitcoin, and we cannot buy a house in America through Bitcoin, but to buy a Lamborghini or a house in America, we will definitely need dollars. If the US government ever allows Bitcoin to be used alongside the dollar, Bitcoin may be pegged to the dollar.

Quite expected, and the situation is unlikely to change globally! The fact is that no government will ever, under any circumstances, replace its managed currency with some kind of surrogate over which the government has no influence. A financial model with a “managed trajectory” is one of the pillars of STATEHOOD! And until another model is invented where the interests of the state will be maximally satisfied, no independent “monetary system” will receive official status. This is unpleasant to understand, but all that remains is to accept and come to terms with the situation.
Well, and most importantly, not a single state, not a single economy will receive any benefit from the introduction of Bitcoin as a currency...

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Bitcoin is a digital currency and this digital currency is moving forward step by step depending on the investors. The United States, however, has not approved Bitcoin as an alternative to their dollar, nor has it linked Bitcoin directly to the dollar. We can only exchange bitcoins but we cannot directly use bitcoins instead of dollars. For example, if we want, we cannot buy a Lamborghini through Bitcoin, and we cannot buy a house in America through Bitcoin, but to buy a Lamborghini or a house in America, we will definitely need dollars. If the US government ever allows Bitcoin to be used alongside the dollar, Bitcoin may be pegged to the dollar.

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Quote from: MadHatters on November 27, 2023, 12:52:26 PM

The good thing about the dollar is that you will always have the currency since it is centralized, meanwhile, bitcoin can disappear at some point.

Believe it or not, everything can disappear at some point. We just can think in terms of probabilities. The probability of disappearing something as established as dollar is low, but we know such things happen. And, after all, Bitcoin did not appear yesterday too.

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Quote from: MadHatters on November 27, 2023, 12:52:26 PM

The good thing about the dollar is that you will always have the currency since it is centralized, meanwhile, bitcoin can disappear at some point.

Bitcoin cannot be linked to dollars, I think, because Bitcoin has a limited supply of only 21 million in the world, while dollars have no limit, they are printed continuously and there is no basis whatsoever, but our trust in the government, the dollar is centralized, while Bitcoin is decentralized, it's as simple as that, in my opinion.

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Quote from: lombok on November 28, 2023, 09:48:36 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on November 27, 2023, 12:35:46 PM

Quote from: lombok on October 27, 2023, 09:16:06 PM

Bitcoin is unique. Not connected to any fiat currency. Bitcoin exists as a replacement or shifter for the current centralized world financial system, Bitcoin comes with a decentralized system, has a fixed supply, a free nature that is not controlled by anyone except the Bitcoin owner himself. So here there is no connection at all between USD and Bitcoin, clearly Bitcoin is a new revolution for people who want freedom from the current financial system (fiat currency)

One simple question - what is the price of Bitcoin measured in ?

The answer is - in... DOLLARS.
And as long as the world's economy is counted in dollars, everything else is valued in dollars. The same Bitcoin, if there is a real cost of production - it is formed by the price of asics + electricity, because this is the real cost of obtaining it. Asics are sold for fiat currencies, or at least their price in dollars, but can be sold for other currencies or even cryptocurrencies, but... through the recalculation of dollars and the current value of cryptocurrencies in those very dollars. It is a similar picture with the cost of electricity. Therefore, it is difficult to call bitcoin independent of fiat, since it is valued in fiat currency on the market. When we consider the main prices in bitcoins, then we can talk about its "independence from the world of fiat money"

My image is that Blockchain is a state government and Bitcoin is its currency. USD/Euro, JPY/Euro or BTC/USDT, BTC/Euro are all currencies with different values. This is the reason I stated that Bitcoin is not connected to any fiat because here their status is the same, namely as currency. Even though the status is the same, the supports and systems are clearly very different. This is what makes Bitcoin unique, because it is different from fiat currency in general.

Yes, every currency has a value, otherwise it wouldn't be a currency. Otherwise how can you estimate the cost of goods and services in a currency if it has no value ?
Bitcoin's value is largely speculative, that's also a fact. But it also has a cost of production, and it is just measured by the cost of quite fiat - from the cost of asics and electricity, to the rent of premises and staff salaries. Everything else in the bitcoin price is a speculative markup! And it is considered, I repeat, in quite a fiat dollar. Therefore, bitcoin is very much connected with the fiat world, although yes, at first it may seem the opposite.

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Quote from: DrBeer on November 27, 2023, 12:35:46 PM

Quote from: lombok on October 27, 2023, 09:16:06 PM

Bitcoin is unique. Not connected to any fiat currency. Bitcoin exists as a replacement or shifter for the current centralized world financial system, Bitcoin comes with a decentralized system, has a fixed supply, a free nature that is not controlled by anyone except the Bitcoin owner himself. So here there is no connection at all between USD and Bitcoin, clearly Bitcoin is a new revolution for people who want freedom from the current financial system (fiat currency)

One simple question - what is the price of Bitcoin measured in ?

The answer is - in... DOLLARS.
And as long as the world's economy is counted in dollars, everything else is valued in dollars. The same Bitcoin, if there is a real cost of production - it is formed by the price of asics + electricity, because this is the real cost of obtaining it. Asics are sold for fiat currencies, or at least their price in dollars, but can be sold for other currencies or even cryptocurrencies, but... through the recalculation of dollars and the current value of cryptocurrencies in those very dollars. It is a similar picture with the cost of electricity. Therefore, it is difficult to call bitcoin independent of fiat, since it is valued in fiat currency on the market. When we consider the main prices in bitcoins, then we can talk about its "independence from the world of fiat money"

My image is that Blockchain is a state government and Bitcoin is its currency. USD/Euro, JPY/Euro or BTC/USDT, BTC/Euro are all currencies with different values. This is the reason I stated that Bitcoin is not connected to any fiat because here their status is the same, namely as currency. Even though the status is the same, the supports and systems are clearly very different. This is what makes Bitcoin unique, because it is different from fiat currency in general.

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The good thing about the dollar is that you will always have the currency since it is centralized, meanwhile, bitcoin can disappear at some point.

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As much as we would like to see Bitcoin replace the Dollar, until Bitcoin is accepted as a legal means of payment, it will remain a speculative asset more suitable for risky investments.

I can and have legally paid for items with BTC for 10 years or more and many will continue to do so in increasing numbers. Whats being asked for here is national recognition and partiall backing by a government or central bank and this will never occur. BTC issuance is via a 3rd party, very few governments will accept outside control like that especially when they feel the policy is unknown and possibly unfriendly to them.
Many countries countries currency has often been in lock step to dollar but usually this was with USA as either an ally or trading partner hence it makes sense and adds stability to their economy to do so. Also USA makes an effort to be clear and signal well in time any moves or alterations to policy, for good reason as they too benefit by usage of dollar. BTC is just not lined up to perform in that way imo, I dont think there is any intention to do so .

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Quote from: lombok on October 27, 2023, 09:16:06 PM

Bitcoin is unique. Not connected to any fiat currency. Bitcoin exists as a replacement or shifter for the current centralized world financial system, Bitcoin comes with a decentralized system, has a fixed supply, a free nature that is not controlled by anyone except the Bitcoin owner himself. So here there is no connection at all between USD and Bitcoin, clearly Bitcoin is a new revolution for people who want freedom from the current financial system (fiat currency)

One simple question - what is the price of Bitcoin measured in ?

The answer is - in... DOLLARS.
And as long as the world's economy is counted in dollars, everything else is valued in dollars. The same Bitcoin, if there is a real cost of production - it is formed by the price of asics + electricity, because this is the real cost of obtaining it. Asics are sold for fiat currencies, or at least their price in dollars, but can be sold for other currencies or even cryptocurrencies, but... through the recalculation of dollars and the current value of cryptocurrencies in those very dollars. It is a similar picture with the cost of electricity. Therefore, it is difficult to call bitcoin independent of fiat, since it is valued in fiat currency on the market. When we consider the main prices in bitcoins, then we can talk about its "independence from the world of fiat money"

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Quote from: Vickky Rae on October 27, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Presently, should we say it's good the way bitcoin its been tied to dollars? Dollars is not backed up with any resources but to my understanding, bitcoin is a product of great energy surge. We shouldn't let bitcoin tied to dollars but bitcoin standing on its own. What could decide the durability and value of bitcoin? I have some ideas..

It will not ever take place because Bitcoin is a decentralized system while the dollar is a centralized currency so how you can tie it to Bitcoin? It will take place in the imagination Grin

and there is no route for it in practicality. The price of bitcoin is free in the sense that nobody is controlling it while dollar is controlled by the US. I think you saw this BTC/USDT in the finance. This is just for the understanding of users because every person can easily calculate dollars but no one can do the same to Bitcoin. So the Binance made this so that the users will make a comparison of how much BTC is in dollars and there are few people who I think calculate BTC exactly into dollars air in their fiat currency.

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Quote from: Vickky Rae on October 27, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Presently, should we say it's good the way bitcoin its been tied to dollars? Dollars is not backed up with any resources but to my understanding, bitcoin is a product of great energy surge. We shouldn't let bitcoin tied to dollars but bitcoin standing on its own. What could decide the durability and value of bitcoin? I have some ideas..

Who told you bitcoin was tied to dollars? You think that because there are so many currency pairs with USD as a stablecoin? That is strange to know that some people think that way. So people who trade BTC/EUR pairs and live in the EU will say bitcoin is tied to the euro!

What is your idea for deciding the durability and value of bitcoin?

Do you know how we determine the wages of our employees? I am not sure about other countries but in my country it has been measured by the price of rice because rice is the primary food consumed by the local people. So a day laborer gets his salary based on the price of rice and i think this is a common method all around the world. So let's say you can buy 1 kilo of rice for 0.0001BTC then it can be the daily salary of a worker if we want to determine the value in BTC. We are so attached to the fiat value system that it sound wired to think of any other ways to determine the value.

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Quote from: Vickky Rae on October 27, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Presently, should we say it's good the way bitcoin its been tied to dollars? Dollars is not backed up with any resources but to my understanding, bitcoin is a product of great energy surge. We shouldn't let bitcoin tied to dollars but bitcoin standing on its own. What could decide the durability and value of bitcoin? I have some ideas..

Bitcoin is "tied" to dollars as anything else, meaning it can be sold for dollars, but it's not like dollar loses its value and Bitcoin is following. In this sense Bitcoin is "standing on its own" like you said. What can decide Bitcoin's value is its utility. If most people in the world will be using BTC for various reasons, it will be valuable for sure.

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Quote from: alastantiger on November 26, 2023, 05:47:05 PM

Quote from: Vickky Rae on October 27, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Presently, should we say it's good the way bitcoin its been tied to dollars? Dollars is not backed up with any resources but to my understanding, bitcoin is a product of great energy surge. We shouldn't let bitcoin tied to dollars but bitcoin standing on its own. What could decide the durability and value of bitcoin? I have some ideas..

Bitcoin needs to be tied to something.
There needs to be something backing it. That's how you know what is valuable from what is not.

It is tied to watts. watts cost fiat. so you can tie btc to

the Dollar
the Pound
the Frac
the Ruble
the Yuan
the Euro

so on and so forth

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Quote from: alastantiger on November 26, 2023, 05:47:05 PM

Quote from: Vickky Rae on October 27, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Presently, should we say it's good the way bitcoin its been tied to dollars? Dollars is not backed up with any resources but to my understanding, bitcoin is a product of great energy surge. We shouldn't let bitcoin tied to dollars but bitcoin standing on its own. What could decide the durability and value of bitcoin? I have some ideas..

Bitcoin needs to be tied to something.
There needs to be something backing it. That's how you know what is valuable from what is not.

Comparators can benchmark the value of Bitcoin, especially against a currency that has become a standard for the whole world. Therefore, during a bearish season, we can see a decline in the value of Bitcoin against the dollar, and vice versa. Therefore, it is difficult to deny that the final reference is the dollar after we make a profit from Bitcoin activities

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Quote from: southerngentuk on November 26, 2023, 11:04:00 AM

I think these two currencies may be related. Bitcoin can be considered a kind of "competition" to the US dollar. If Bitcoin becomes more popular, it could threaten the US dollar's position as a global currency.

In what way do you say the two could be related? Meanwhile, Bitcoin is always different from any fiat in the world, including the US dollar. And talking about competition in terms of economics or currency, almost all currencies in the world are always competing with other currencies so that each of them has no connection whatsoever even though they all circulate within the economic scope of their respective countries and in the global scope is also the same.

Quote

Regarding the US dollar not being backed by any resources, this is literally true. The dollar is not backed by gold or any other physical asset. The value of the dollar is based on people's faith in it. Of course, this factor does not guarantee that the dollar will always retain its value. However, they have helped the dollar maintain its position as a global currency for decades.

This is true, but apart from the dollar there are also many other currencies that are still trusted by the public, although not globally. This means that these other currencies are the currencies of each country they live in, while Bitcoin has also been trusted by many people as a digital currency that is very good and powerful enough to continue to be used as an investment in everyone's future.

So Bitcoin has become a very real rival to all national currencies at the moment and it is likely that it will continue to do so in the future because as the number of people who believe in Bitcoin continues to increase, it will make the use of fiat currency become less because Everyone can rely on Bitcoin in any sector of their life.

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Quote from: alastantiger on November 26, 2023, 05:47:05 PM

Quote from: Vickky Rae on October 27, 2023, 12:45:17 PM

Presently, should we say it's good the way bitcoin its been tied to dollars? Dollars is not backed up with any resources but to my understanding, bitcoin is a product of great energy surge. We shouldn't let bitcoin tied to dollars but bitcoin standing on its own. What could decide the durability and value of bitcoin? I have some ideas..

Bitcoin needs to be tied to something.
There needs to be something backing it. That's how you know what is valuable from what is not.

Hehehe...@Vickky Rae is just an example of people who are bereaved of economic understanding but still forcing themselves into that field. My question is why this naivety?

You should have also corrected him instead of just replying to the backing or no backing. Contrary to all that he said in case you also do not know, the USD is backed by the Federal Reserve and in turn backed by the US economy, and since it's mostly used as the world reserve, it's also invariably backed by the world economy. But Bitcoin is backed by nothing, except that people's deposits make it valuable.

And point blank, Bitcoin has no say in an economy, so it can't stand on its own, only a legal tender can do that, nonetheless, Bitcoin can't go round even if countries decide to legalize it. Mind you guys, Bitcoin/USD has really helped it to be most accessible to people, not otherwise, and Bitcoin will always have to be paired with currencies/fiats for it to be exchangeable locally and in cross-border transactions and payments.

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