BTC Whales and pump and dumps have destroyed this market - page 2.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on June 02, 2018, 04:30:01 AM

$100 rise is not a pump, it is not even a rise. it is barely a movement. it is only 1% change.

Not only that, it's a mistake to think that a whale is responsible for this. It certainly could be, but it's more likely to be just normal market fluctuations and much less than what bitcoin usually experiences, I might add. I'm wondering how long OP has been into bitcoin if this is making him decry all the whales in the world--while bitcoin is gaining, no less.

Sit tight and you'll see much greater volatility ahead, and don't blame whales for whatever happens. There are a lot of speculators around, most of them not being rich by any means. It's a cumulative effect from the buying and selling of everyone.

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Quote from: swissgang on June 02, 2018, 10:57:38 AM

Some whales can pump bitcoin or dump it but can't change the market cycle, if you trade bitcoin then you are going to suffer from whales as they make it irrational as you say but if you hodl they will suffer from you.

Whales simply make waves in this market and eventually the waves will recede. Theyay influence pumps and dumps only for a certain time. One can either drown in these waves or ride it. And for most long term hodlers, watch it from a safe distance. They can't destroy the market since they're benefitting from it as well

Slow death

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Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 06:43:16 AM

This market is not attracting that many investors: Institutional money will not enter the market for a long time, many retail investors are leaving and some are entering the market. This market can not grow because there are not enough investors. BTC is in peril because when people buy in other pairs there will be no need to buy it: exchanges will make it easier to buy in using a usd token and then use that to buy alts and BTC will NOT BE THE RESERVE CRYPTO.

you are looking at things in a very pessimistic way, and it is true that we need institutional investors, but you should see that institutional investors will only come in when the regulations are very clear and banks are not creating barriers for the people they want buy bitcoin. If many banks and governments and even companies like Visa and Mastercard were not creating many obstacles for people using bitcoin, then today the price of bitcoin would be much higher and we would have many more investors entering the crypto world

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 06:43:16 AM

BTC will die a slow death because of this.

bitcoin will survive, do not be too pessimistic

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 06:43:16 AM

ETH will not suffer from this because many platforms are built on it. No platforms are built on BTC.

So you're campaigning to btc die and ETH survive? this is your true intention

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 10:20:10 AM

Example: An entity buys an ALT and then pumps bitcoin. The Alt goes up and they sell the ALT at a profit and then they dump the bitcoin. This is one example. These guys are professionals and can do this any tick of the clock and it is so so so unpredictable.

Many people buy first BTC and with BTC buy altcoins and sell these altcoins to have more btc and hold btc. BTC is the priority for people and altcoins are a means to get more BTC

1Referee

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It's actually very simple;

If you can't handle this market, then why bother investing in it?

If you consider this market to be impossible to trade, then why bother trading it?

If the long term is the only thing you care about, then why bother with the short term fluctuations?

To me this market makes perfect sense. I don't expect anything from it short term speaking because I know how brutal and manipulative it can be. Open the charts and see for yourself how insane this market has been throughout the years; the only certainties thus far have been the bottom development and the constantly increasing price, everything else is just rubbish being the direct result of people's fear, greed, etc.

Whale manipulation was present since the very beginning, which means that by your logic the market shouldn't exist in current times.

swissgang

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Some whales can pump bitcoin or dump it but can't change the market cycle, if you trade bitcoin then you are going to suffer from whales as they make it irrational as you say but if you hodl they will suffer from you.

jamesashmore1964

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Quote from: entrepmind23 on June 02, 2018, 08:02:08 AM

Quote from: Febo on June 02, 2018, 07:19:45 AM

Actually Bitcoin high price increases are attracting different speculators to buy Bitcoin. Some of them then latter read and learn about Bitcoin and stay. Most when market settle down leave. So saying high volatility is bad is super wrong. It is what made Bitcoin so popular that fast.

Bitcoin's movement is a trader's paradise because of its volatility. Well at least for those who are already familiar with the market but for those who are new to it, most probably it would be a disaster if they would trade using emotions. We know that cryptocurrency market is heavily manipulated that's why we should start with small amount to be familiarized with it and be able to read the movement of the whales so that we can ride with it.

Quote from: Miztro on June 02, 2018, 05:37:57 AM

There are too many average Joe's that quickly react to any change in the price of BTC, and this is what's causing such huge fluctuations

I don't think its the doing of an average Joe when there are pump and dumps of millions worth of bitcoin in just a single buy or sell. The whales are doing it but for us Average Joe, we cannot do something about it because it is the nature of the market currently. We can just try to think like them so that we can still profit from this market.

I agree with you about thinking like them but it is unpredictable.

Example: An entity buys an ALT and then pumps bitcoin. The Alt goes up and they sell the ALT at a profit and then they dump the bitcoin. This is one example. These guys are professionals and can do this any tick of the clock and it is so so so unpredictable.

entrepmind23

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Quote from: Febo on June 02, 2018, 07:19:45 AM

Actually Bitcoin high price increases are attracting different speculators to buy Bitcoin. Some of them then latter read and learn about Bitcoin and stay. Most when market settle down leave. So saying high volatility is bad is super wrong. It is what made Bitcoin so popular that fast.

Bitcoin's movement is a trader's paradise because of its volatility. Well at least for those who are already familiar with the market but for those who are new to it, most probably it would be a disaster if they would trade using emotions. We know that cryptocurrency market is heavily manipulated that's why we should start with small amount to be familiarized with it and be able to read the movement of the whales so that we can ride with it.

Quote from: Miztro on June 02, 2018, 05:37:57 AM

There are too many average Joe's that quickly react to any change in the price of BTC, and this is what's causing such huge fluctuations

I don't think its the doing of an average Joe when there are pump and dumps of millions worth of bitcoin in just a single buy or sell. The whales are doing it but for us Average Joe, we cannot do something about it because it is the nature of the market currently. We can just try to think like them so that we can still profit from this market.

gentlemand

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Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 07:04:18 AM

I have not lost a penny!
I am just pointing out a reason why it will be hard for this market to grow!

Everything looks constipated post bubble. It's a crippled market as any other one would after something so huge. You have to wait for it to be put to bed for people to get excited again. I don't think we're anywhere near that yet.

Febo

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Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD
It is impossible for rational thinkers to make sense of this market: Whales and pump and dump entities have destroyed it.
In addition BTC pairs are on the way out and will make BTC worthless.

Actually Bitcoin high price increases are attracting different speculators to buy Bitcoin. Some of them then latter read and learn about Bitcoin and stay. Most when market settle down leave. So saying high volatility is bad is super wrong. It is what made Bitcoin so popular that fast.

jamesashmore1964

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Quote from: tokeweed on June 02, 2018, 06:53:07 AM

Quote from: talkbitcoin on June 02, 2018, 04:30:01 AM

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD

will the sea overflow if you pour a glass of water in it?

$100 rise is not a pump, it is not even a rise. it is barely a movement. it is only 1% change.

Yup... And did 'whales and pump and dumps' destroy the securities or commodities market worldwide? No, they actually made those markets more interesting and fun. Wink

But I understand his frustration. And I assume he's been losing lately. In this kind of market it's hard not not to lose. Grin

I have not lost a penny!
I am just pointing out a reason why it will be hard for this market to grow!

tokeweed

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on June 02, 2018, 04:30:01 AM

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD

will the sea overflow if you pour a glass of water in it?

$100 rise is not a pump, it is not even a rise. it is barely a movement. it is only 1% change.

Yup... And did 'whales and pump and dumps' destroy the securities or commodities market worldwide? No, they actually made those markets more interesting and fun. Wink

But I understand his frustration. And I assume he's been losing lately. In this kind of market it's hard not not to lose. Grin

gentlemand

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So your prime thrust is that Bitcoin will become irrelevant as you can trade alts with other pairings?

It's a big factor in Bitcoin action, but I think we're entering a phase where Bitcoin's virtues become more obvious compared to the absolute emptiness of most alts. Bitcoin is the only one that's making a decent stab of actually being decentralised and nothing can hold the tiniest candle to it in terms of battle testing.

This market is currently pretty dead. The only entities populating it are bots and scalpers which makes trading irrational and pointless. Wait for the real people and go do something else in the meantime.

jamesashmore1964

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Quote from: Tankdestroyer on June 02, 2018, 06:29:58 AM

Quote from: pxo.011 on June 02, 2018, 03:13:19 AM

it all depend on our faith with bitcoin

Bitcoin is not a religion, so don't ever mention your faith with bitcoin. I guess it would be better if we would reword it as "believing in the potential for growth of bitcoin".

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 05:25:36 AM

There are BTC pumps all the time: impossible to trade in this environment!

It ain't impossible to trade in this environment. In fact, that same characteristic of bitcoin is what attracts investors to invest in it and take note that bitcoin is not pumping all the time(it doesn't happen all the time). The movement we have now IMO is just normal volatility and it ain't a pump.

This market is not attracting that many investors: Institutional money will not enter the market for a long time, many retail investors are leaving and some are entering the market. This market can not grow because there are not enough investors. BTC is in peril because when people buy in other pairs there will be no need to buy it: exchanges will make it easier to buy in using a usd token and then use that to buy alts and BTC will NOT BE THE RESERVE CRYPTO.

BTC will die a slow death because of this. ETH will not suffer from this because many platforms are built on it. No platforms are built on BTC. Also greedy governments are using taxation equations that are not fair and putting people off getting involved in cryptos!

Tankdestroyer

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Quote from: pxo.011 on June 02, 2018, 03:13:19 AM

it all depend on our faith with bitcoin

Bitcoin is not a religion, so don't ever mention your faith with bitcoin. I guess it would be better if we would reword it as "believing in the potential for growth of bitcoin".

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 05:25:36 AM

There are BTC pumps all the time: impossible to trade in this environment!

It ain't impossible to trade in this environment. In fact, that same characteristic of bitcoin is what attracts investors to invest in it and take note that bitcoin is not pumping all the time(it doesn't happen all the time). The movement we have now IMO is just normal volatility and it ain't a pump.

Miztro

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Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD
It is impossible for rational thinkers to make sense of this market: Whales and pump and dump entities have destroyed it.
In addition BTC pairs are on the way out and will make BTC worthless.

That's the main problem I think apart from media perceivance.

Bitcoin is being artificially inflated and dumped by these types of people to gain profit. Bitcoin should be left alone to grow normally, however it just isn't when the market is as it is today

There are too many average Joe's that quickly react to any change in the price of BTC, and this is what's causing such huge fluctuations

jamesashmore1964

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on June 02, 2018, 04:30:01 AM

Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD

will the sea overflow if you pour a glass of water in it?

$100 rise is not a pump, it is not even a rise. it is barely a movement. it is only 1% change.

There are BTC pumps all the time: impossible to trade in this environment!

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD

will the sea overflow if you pour a glass of water in it?

$100 rise is not a pump, it is not even a rise. it is barely a movement. it is only 1% change.

pxo.011

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Quote from: jamesashmore1964 on June 02, 2018, 02:53:42 AM

Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD
It is impossible for rational thinkers to make sense of this market: Whales and pump and dump entities have destroyed it.
In addition BTC pairs are on the way out and will make BTC worthless.

it all depend on our faith with bitcoin it has affect the price of bitcoin it all was depend on the trader and fool people believe in fud that cost panic sale on their holdings.

jamesashmore1964

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Someone just pumped BTC 100 USD
It is impossible for rational thinkers to make sense of this market: Whales and pump and dump entities have destroyed it.
In addition BTC pairs are on the way out and will make BTC worthless.

Topic: BTC Whales and pump and dumps have destroyed this market - page 2. (Read 257 times)