Topic: BTC will never extend more (Read 2907 times)

Ok. well you can always send ur BTC to me and stick with fiat

good article dude

As I understand it, many countries tend to tax their citizens through their bank accounts.  For instance, Argentina has a 0.6% tax on all transactions.  And that is at the National level, it could increase with fees and such at the local level depending on which country and how it's being done.  This tends to happen in places where there is a lot of people paid in cash.  To avoid this, many people move their currency into Bitcoin so as to avoid this kind of taxation.  It's another reason why many investments were planted in Cyprus.  Tax avoidance is a major reason why people float their cash into Bitcoin.

If you lived in the United States and had a friend that lived in, say, Libya.  And your friend needed money, right away, how would you give him money?  Say he needs a car and some money to pay a bad debt.  You could try to wire him the money, but the fees are crazy and it would require him to have a bank account in Libya and trust that the bank wouldn't "lose" his money.  Not only that, but if you move more than $10,000 the U.S. Government is notified by the bank and could put a hold on your accounts and conduct an investigation to make sure you weren't trying to do something illegal. 

For businesses, it's clear that accepting Bitcoin is MUCH cheaper than accepting credit card.  It is also agnostic to the business you are running.  If you want to run a porn site, Bitcoin does not care.  Visa does.  It also does not require the same level of security requirements, because there is no "Number" to steal or private information about someone to acquire.  There is no authority that is going to inspect your network and computer systems to make sure you are compliant to accept Bitcoin.

Bitcoin's only real negative is the difficulty in moving fiat in and out of it.  Hopefully more people will build things like Bitcoin ATM's that convert the FIAT into Bitcoin and avoid the process of linking bank accounts to exchanges.  If a service like Paypal picks up Bitcoin, that will also go a long way towards expanding the adoption of the currency.  If this were done, there would be less reasons for people to have to understand Bitcoin's complexity and instead just use it like any other currency.  "Oh, this store takes Bitcoin?  I'll transfer that with my Bitcoin app."  scan a barcode and never have to look at a hash.  Recharge it at an ATM by scanning a barcode, etc.

There is room for fraud, there is plenty of fraud with FIAT/Cash.  Bitcoin is no different.  People just need to treat it like cash when making transactions and they won't find themselves so easily scammed.  They've just become brain dead thanks to the insurance credit cards provide, but don't realize that the credit cards have raised the cost of everything by 3% or more.

bumpppp

what do you think?

If a bank or a very good customer like a government made an error, sent you a million or two too many, and the credit is still on your account, you will find that the transfer is quite reversible.

all the holes in your arguments have already pointed out. looks like youre the one with no brain.
just another noob that thinks they know it all.

I think the complete opposite to this.  Bitcoin in the long run will only increase in value due to some reasons you have not mentioned.

1. Bitcoin is still unknown to the majority even though there has been an increase in media coverage recently. As more crazy bubbles happen, there will be more media coverage and there will be more people who start investing and trading bitcoin.  More people means increase in demand for the btc, causing a sustained long term appreciation.

2.  Increase in people using btc means the economy will be larger.  This means that the exchanges such as gox will have more customers and more revenue.  As more people use btc and more money is risked in btc there will be more demand for an exchange with high security.  Whether gox is clever enough to reinvest their profits in increased security programs will determine wheather they are still the market leader of exchanges in the future.  But either way some exchange will fill the security gap, causing security to no longer be an issue.

3.  Again as btc becomes more common, silk road will become less of a problem.  We already know that the NSA watches everything internet related, and you would be stupid to think that they are not paying attention to SR.  One way or another they will shut it down or make it so that the chance of being caught is no longer worth the risk of selling drugs and other illegals on there.  When this happens governments will see btc less as having a bad influence and will be less likely to ban it/ make it illegal.

4.  There is another function that btc provides other than being able to buy and sell things with it.  That is transferring money.  It is the easiest and cheapest and fastest way to transfer money around the world.  This is a huge side to btc what will add to its value.  One example why this is so important is due to China.  We all know how over the last 10 years China has become a major economy and duly their middle class has greatly increased while also causing some to become super rich.  As this happens there is a larger demand from Chinese citizens to purchase luxury good and services.  This includes traveling abroad, however the Chinese government heavily prevents its citizens from transferring their money out of the country.  Right now they have to go through a tricky service of moving money to Hong Kong before taking it abroad.  Btc allows the Chinese to send money wherever and to whoever they want.

5.  Plus there is the whole side of how btc is finite and thus is deflating, thus causing it to be worth more dollars.  However this can cause investors to buy and hold, which has a negative effect on the price and economy, but we will see what does when it happens in a few years.


so ya its not going down in the long run

cash is also irreversible, and cash is the fundamental element of fiat money supply

I heard that SEPA are reversible, but I don't know much about it.
Anyway, if you got a problem, you can file a police report / call your bank. And most of the time solve it out.

Nice article, concerning scams, SEPA is also irreversible

If you don't have any brain to understand what I wrote, or at least read it, don't bother answering.

he forgot a lot of things. just another biased, ignorant, myopic poster who leaves out all the pros and only points out the cons (that can/will be easily fixed). blockchain? you dont need to download it. let a secure site hold your coins. if you have the blockchain, transactions only take about 20 minutes.  he also left out the fact ppl can use btc as their own personal "offshore bank" that the IRS cant touch.  bitcoin has the power to end the fed.  i can go on forever, but i'll let another proponent take over.

you forgot the iminent gambling-revolution ... it's a multi-billion-dollar buisness, that might be swallowed in large chunks by btc coming years.
look:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3086625

also you forgot inflation-struck countries in your model. Read thoughts here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/zimbabwe-will-be-the-first-national-economy-running-on-bitcoin-only-288133

This has been discussed for thousand times, the block size is a scare resource, it might forever stay at 1MB, means 2000 transaction maxium inside bitcon network every 10 minutes. But additional layers of offline transaction will be added for small and frequent payments, it is also possible that debit card/atm will be established for bitcoin

Bitcoin is a money, the biggest advantage is its decentralized and limited supply nature, any other function can be build above like for fiat money

So, that means if the miners wants 50 btc / block (like before), they will need to ask for 0.025 btc / transaction.
And at 500$ / btc, it will cost 12.5 usd per transaction.



I can see a second problem:
2000 transactions by blocks means 200 transaction / min maximum. How many usd transactions there is each min in the world?
I will update my post with that.

A) Compared to the current block reward of 25 BTC, that is still a huge drop in miner reward.
B) Compared to a current normal fee of 0.0005 BTC, you have increased fees six-fold
C) I assume you think BTC value will have greatly increased by then, meaning the fee will be much higher in real terms. If each BTC were worth $1000, your fee would be $3 per transaction, making any small purchases uneconomic. If each BTC were worth $10000, your fee would be $30 per transaction.
As BTC value rises, fees have to reduce, or more and more purchases become uneconomic.

I think another advantage Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) has over "traditional" money, is that it can't be counterfeited. In the long run this, along with its general decentralized nature, will make it more valuable as a currency. It costs money to maintain the centralization required to protect the dollar, or the euro, from radical inflation, whether through being counterfeited, or poorly designed laws. For instance, protecting the dollar from large scale counterfeiting requires quite a bit of r&d. However, this is built into cryptocurrency.

In general, one should consider money, and the financial institutions required to maintain that money (banks, taxes, laws, etc.) as services that essentially charge the customer to use their money, although they provide protection from certain forms of inflation. A well designed cryptocurrency essentially cuts out these middle men, so you are able to use more of the actual value, per unit of money.

Still, it will be quite a while before a cryptocurrency is a stable monetary unit.

Your car can be stolen and sold for scrap.  Does this stop you from owning a car?


Not at all, and if you would take the time to read that, you would this is has been addressed.  Mixing services will not help.  A mixing service would have to have thousands of bitcoins setting around and even then your bitcoins will most likely be swapped with someone elses illegit bitcoins and you will still get caught.  In the future it may become illegal to posses bitcoins market as illegit, so even if you got yours from another source, such as mixing, you won't be able to use them.


No, thats a problem for scammers safety.  You might as well be arguing against buying anything with cash.

Others already addressed that it would be possible to buy something at a store with 0 confirmations.  So you can't use transaction time as an argument.

You don't realize it, but you pay more in fees for using your credit card.  The credit card company charges the store a processing fee much higher than bitcoins fee, and the store adds this fee onto all of their products to make up for it.  You are already paying for this fee.

The current block size limit is 1 MB, about 2000 transactions maximum can be recorded in each block. Suppose that each transction pay 0.003 bitcoin, then there will be 6 bitcoin per block reward if the block size is maxed out. This means after another 2 times reward halving (12.5 and 6.25), transaction fee income will get close to block reward, so there is room for further reduction of transaction fee

And the bandwidth and storage consumption will not rise quickly if the block size limit does not lift, that will depend on the future computer and network infrastructure, but due to additional layers of offline transactions for small/frequent payments, maybe the block size limit will stay at 1MB forever

With more and more transactions included in each block, the bandwidth and storage costs for miners will rise, so the total fees will also need to rise, not stay constant.
Plus, fees are currently a tiny part of the miners' reward, but as the block reward keeps dropping, fees will need to rise to make up for it.