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Topic: BTCD is no more - page 294. (Read 1328503 times)

sr. member
Activity: 247
Merit: 250
August 30, 2014, 02:31:58 AM
James i might sound just a tad greedy but here are my thoughts.

As you have stated that BTCD is the spine that holds everything together why do you not limit the IPO to BTCD investors proportionate to their current BTCD holdings?

Say you want 1000BTC raised. If i have 10% of BTCD coins i would have the option to buy 100BTC worth of the IPO. If there is not enough people that take this option then open it up to everyone else after.

The reasoning behind this would be that, firstly people that want to be in the supernetwork IPO will need to buy BTCD and keep up the buy demand and secondly the profits from the rising of the other coins that join the supernetwork would be feed back to the BTCD holders.

This was also my original thought. Isn't there someway to build in this valuation / ipo idea into BTCD itself, rather than create a seperate asset class? Both to reward holders and to strengthen the coin ... ? Or to clearly connect the two as pondsea suggests.

I agree. My initial thought is this IPO weakens BTCD. Just seems like it's getting more and more diluted in a way.

Perhaps it is the right idea, this Jl777 train keeps on gathering steam...
Did sharkfund weaken InstantDEX?
Maybe you can trust my judgement?
I would rather have small percent of something really really big, than big percent of something small
Just do the math

You need to visualize dozen coins all cross marketing and helping each other. These coins get an inherent advantage over other coins with similar features but not part of Supernetwork. So they all rise in coinmarketcap together. This then keeps attracting more and more coins to apply, but only the ones with something to offer are added

So, now belonging to Supernetwork is a seal of technical approval and also testament that the coin has unique value.

Now what is in the center of all this? What is the engine that gives it power?

Or we could just try to spend a few years to get to 100,000 users.
I prefer to get there in some few months, with a much higher probability of success.
No coin is going to overtake BTC itself. We all need to work together to help BTC do as well as it can against fiat. For this I cannot do it myself, I need the other coin devs and communities

Crypto should not be a bunch of squabbling islands. We can each have our own nice tropical island, but connect them all with a Teleport system so you can visit any other island like it is right next door.

James

It's all so freaking ambitious it just takes a while to sink in. I understand your point about making things happen instead of waiting.

Thanks for making it clearer.


legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 02:25:08 AM
come on community.i think all of us could invest james' IPO project!
Dont put too much in.
I suggest 10% to 33%

The ROI profile is very difficult to determine, especially as there will be some overlaps for the BTCD revenue shares
My sense is that the ROI for Supernetwork will be less than for BTCD, but there is a chance for it to have some really good short term gains and it will be less risky just due to the amount of BTC I expect it will have mostly sitting there. Of course the wild card is what new services will new coins bring to Supernetwork. I think the best and brightest will be wanting to join, so that means the best services of unknown types. The click revenues will be going more to Supernetwork than BTCD, that is only fair, so this is the wild card factor in favor of Supernetwork

The fact that Supernetwork supports a crypto unification cause might also be a factor. My recommendation is based purely on expected financial ROI, adjust upward if you are wanting to support the unification cause

James
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 02:18:39 AM
James i might sound just a tad greedy but here are my thoughts.

As you have stated that BTCD is the spine that holds everything together why do you not limit the IPO to BTCD investors proportionate to their current BTCD holdings?

Say you want 1000BTC raised. If i have 10% of BTCD coins i would have the option to buy 100BTC worth of the IPO. If there is not enough people that take this option then open it up to everyone else after.

The reasoning behind this would be that, firstly people that want to be in the supernetwork IPO will need to buy BTCD and keep up the buy demand and secondly the profits from the rising of the other coins that join the supernetwork would be feed back to the BTCD holders.

This was also my original thought. Isn't there someway to build in this valuation / ipo idea into BTCD itself, rather than create a seperate asset class? Both to reward holders and to strengthen the coin ... ? Or to clearly connect the two as pondsea suggests.

I agree. My initial thought is this IPO weakens BTCD. Just seems like it's getting more and more diluted in a way.

Perhaps it is the right idea, this Jl777 train keeps on gathering steam...
Did sharkfund weaken InstantDEX?
Maybe you can trust my judgement?
I would rather have small percent of something really really big, than big percent of something small
Just do the math

You need to visualize dozen coins all cross marketing and helping each other. These coins get an inherent advantage over other coins with similar features but not part of Supernetwork. So they all rise in coinmarketcap together. This then keeps attracting more and more coins to apply, but only the ones with something to offer are added

So, now belonging to Supernetwork is a seal of technical approval and also testament that the coin has unique value.

Now what is in the center of all this? What is the engine that gives it power?

Or we could just try to spend a few years to get to 100,000 users.
I prefer to get there in some few months, with a much higher probability of success.
No coin is going to overtake BTC itself. We all need to work together to help BTC do as well as it can against fiat. For this I cannot do it myself, I need the other coin devs and communities

Crypto should not be a bunch of squabbling islands. We can each have our own nice tropical island, but connect them all with a Teleport system so you can visit any other island like it is right next door.

James
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 100
August 30, 2014, 02:16:19 AM
come on community.i think all of us could invest james' IPO project!
sr. member
Activity: 247
Merit: 250
August 30, 2014, 01:49:24 AM
James i might sound just a tad greedy but here are my thoughts.

As you have stated that BTCD is the spine that holds everything together why do you not limit the IPO to BTCD investors proportionate to their current BTCD holdings?

Say you want 1000BTC raised. If i have 10% of BTCD coins i would have the option to buy 100BTC worth of the IPO. If there is not enough people that take this option then open it up to everyone else after.

The reasoning behind this would be that, firstly people that want to be in the supernetwork IPO will need to buy BTCD and keep up the buy demand and secondly the profits from the rising of the other coins that join the supernetwork would be feed back to the BTCD holders.

This was also my original thought. Isn't there someway to build in this valuation / ipo idea into BTCD itself, rather than create a seperate asset class? Both to reward holders and to strengthen the coin ... ? Or to clearly connect the two as pondsea suggests.

I agree. My initial thought is this IPO weakens BTCD. Just seems like it's getting more and more diluted in a way.

Perhaps it is the right idea, this Jl777 train keeps on gathering steam...
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 01:45:35 AM
James i might sound just a tad greedy but here are my thoughts.

As you have stated that BTCD is the spine that holds everything together why do you not limit the IPO to BTCD investors proportionate to their current BTCD holdings?

Say you want 1000BTC raised. If i have 10% of BTCD coins i would have the option to buy 100BTC worth of the IPO. If there is not enough people that take this option then open it up to everyone else after.

The reasoning behind this would be that, firstly people that want to be in the supernetwork IPO will need to buy BTCD and keep up the buy demand and secondly the profits from the rising of the other coins that join the supernetwork would be feed back to the BTCD holders.

This was also my original thought. Isn't there someway to build in this valuation / ipo idea into BTCD itself, rather than create a seperate asset class? Both to reward holders and to strengthen the coin ... ? Or to clearly connect the two as pondsea suggests.
Initial feedback is that the IPO could raise a significant percentage of BTCD marketcap
With the funds being used to hodl other coins, it is possible but not natural to put this into BTCD itself
So, I am making 5% bonus for BTCD denominated IPO deposits, this gives reward to BTCD holders and still keeps it fair for new money to come in. Remember that BTCD is benefiting from center of the spiral

James

P.S. I just got confirmation that Poloniex will be hosting the IPO
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
August 30, 2014, 01:24:02 AM
the multiwalletcoin devs have put in some inovative features into their coin. they might be happy to collaborate on the teleport supernetwork. oh and yes i have a small investment in it  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1000
August 30, 2014, 01:05:51 AM
You have a floppy disc in your  computer?  Shocked
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
August 30, 2014, 01:05:45 AM
James i might sound just a tad greedy but here are my thoughts.

As you have stated that BTCD is the spine that holds everything together why do you not limit the IPO to BTCD investors proportionate to their current BTCD holdings?

Say you want 1000BTC raised. If i have 10% of BTCD coins i would have the option to buy 100BTC worth of the IPO. If there is not enough people that take this option then open it up to everyone else after.

The reasoning behind this would be that, firstly people that want to be in the supernetwork IPO will need to buy BTCD and keep up the buy demand and secondly the profits from the rising of the other coins that join the supernetwork would be feed back to the BTCD holders.

This was also my original thought. Isn't there someway to build in this valuation / ipo idea into BTCD itself, rather than create a seperate asset class? Both to reward holders and to strengthen the coin ... ? Or to clearly connect the two as pondsea suggests.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 01:03:47 AM


sneak peak at work in progress QT GUI
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 01:01:07 AM
the moving average lines disappeared from my bittrex display
does anybody know how to get them back?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 12:51:04 AM
I love what you're doing James. I do think you should consider changing the name of BTCD to better reflect its roll in the supernetwork.

Something like 'Reto' maybe, 'network' in Esperanto.

It's very exciting reading about your vision for the Supernetwork!
thanks, I dont want BTCD price to get artificially boosted. I am ok if it is just for the insiders to know its true value. They have supported me 100% and have really been instrumental to all this, so maybe when all the direct asset -> BTCD revenue streams start kicking in we can think about such things as rebranding

The Supernetwork will be the investment for people who like the dual nature of its gains, eg. investments in the other coins and click revenue. Of course maybe some people invest just to support unifying all of crypto, but I find its always better to make money while supporting your cause.

James
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1000
August 30, 2014, 12:36:19 AM
James i might sound just a tad greedy but here are my thoughts.

As you have stated that BTCD is the spine that holds everything together why do you not limit the IPO to BTCD investors proportionate to their current BTCD holdings?

Say you want 1000BTC raised. If i have 10% of BTCD coins i would have the option to buy 100BTC worth of the IPO. If there is not enough people that take this option then open it up to everyone else after.

The reasoning behind this would be that, firstly people that want to be in the supernetwork IPO will need to buy BTCD and keep up the buy demand and secondly the profits from the rising of the other coins that join the supernetwork would be feed back to the BTCD holders.
sr. member
Activity: 307
Merit: 250
August 30, 2014, 12:34:19 AM
I love what you're doing James. I do think you should consider changing the name of BTCD to better reflect its roll in the supernetwork.

Something like 'Reto' maybe, 'network' in Esperanto.

It's very exciting reading about your vision for the Supernetwork!
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 30, 2014, 12:15:31 AM
I want to make sure you all understand how big Supernetwork is. It will not be just the sum of what I do, but the sum of what all the high quality devs from all the coins that are accepted into the Supernetwork do.

For those that are still thinking if Supernetwork helps other coins, it must hurt BTCD. Let me explain the math.

100,000+ nodes will do quite a lot of InstantDEX, Teleport, Privatebet, Tradebots, etc. Plus add in dozens of additional services from other coins. In the center of all this is BTCD. We are the center of the spiral. Let other coins make their money, everybody needs money. I think that is why it is called money.

BTCD is what allows all this to happen and even if just a small percentage of the overall commerce spills into BTCD revenue share it will be a giant boost to the value of BTCD. I have not worked out all the numbers, but with all this revenues being generated, we can definitely make it a cash positive decision for the other coins, while sharing in the business each coin adds.

Think of it like a company that used to be not so big. They allowed others to make money and they charged some fee for this. Maybe you heard of this company called google? When they select a website to join their AdWords, the website is now making new money from new traffic that otherwise goes elsewhere. A market based auction process allows the website to determine how much to spend for the click. I dont think there is a need to setup fee auctions, but maybe at some point it does. So, the website can choose to tap into traffic that otherwise it cant.

Not exactly the same business model, but I hope you understand the similarities. Basically each coin that joins Supernetwork adds its nodes and that allows all the other nodes to benefit from it, and with cross marketing of the top performing services, yes I think I will do a google Adwords style bidding!, the most popular services are shown first and the user is more likely to select this service. I am glad to write this post, I hadnt solved the way to prorate the Supernetwork fees, but google already solved this!

I see a page that is shown that lists the most popular services and the ones that are paying the most to be shown. At first maybe not paid ads, but then even a low bid gets top placement, so some bidding happens and the market can decide how much it is worth to be the top features Supernetwork service. Now these "clicks" will actually not be just clicks but directly invoking the service, so it is what is called a "conversion", the ultimate goal of direct response advertising. The conversion.

Now if anybody had any doubts as to the value of Supernetwork on BTCD, I hope you are able to estimate the market discovered prices to be the top listing. I will need to share the revenues from this with the node that generated the click, so this is like a rebate for the user, since they are paying for the click, but they also get some percentage. Then there is a general revenue share that each coin gets. I think it is good to track thing per coin, this way for the people that just cant help themselves from competing with other coins, the competition can be which coin is making the most revenues.

Some some small amount for BTCD as the enabler multiplied by all the users of the Supernetwork using all the services that are available.

I am not able to make an estimate for the possible revenues at this point

James
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 29, 2014, 11:47:19 PM
[ANN - Supernetwork IPO] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8592943

The other day I announced that BBR was a good buy. Within two hours, the price more than quadrupled! Some buying panic pushed it as high as 8x, this is a pretty unexpected effect I seem to have.

It has been almost two days as I write this and BBR has gone from a death spiral with no volumes to being one of the more actively traded coins, its hashrate also quadrupled and the price is now building a base at 4x to 6x the price when I created the “jl777 effect”

Now how can a simple C programmer like me have such an effect?

The reason is the Supernetwork. This is the network that will be created by joining all the participating coins into a single unified network. Each coin will of course continue to operate normally, but there will be an option to use any of the services that are available in the Supernetwork. Each coin that joins the network makes it bigger and also adds its unique tech that is then crossmarketed to all the other nodes.

I am estimating 100,000+ nodes are achievable and the best part is that it is clearly not a zerosum economy at all. The more coins, the more transactions, the more revenues. Just from InstantDEX alone, the expected revenues are significant as even with a smaller than centralized exchange fee of 0.1%, the fact that 100,000+ are able to directly exchange their crypto in near realtime assures a stable revenue stream. The MGW instantly become one of the top volumes for NXT as soon as it was made available, even in beta status running on my dev servers!

I will be sharing the revenues from the Supernetwork with all the nodes in the Supernetwork, proportional to their involvement in generating the fees. With InstantDEX providing a baseline amount of revenues, the additional revenues from Tradebots, Privatebet and next year when we add small fee to Teleport, will all continue to increase the revenue stream.

There are NXT assets that correspond to each of my revenue producers and of course the coin I adopted when it was just a baby, BTCD, will be getting a small horizontal slice from the Supernetwork. It is like the thing in the middle of its spiral logo. But the Supernetwork is just having BTCD at its center. The coins that are added will each have to pass some threshold of value that they add to the Supernetwork and also the community needs to be a positive cooperation based mentality. The zerosum dog-eat-dog competitive world is probably needed in mature fiat world, but it has no place in crypto. We need to join together to create a giant Supernetwork that will be a magnet to pull as much fiat into crypto as possible.

Some will ask, will this be a threat to Bitcoin itself? Well, of course not! Anybody that things that any coin (or even Supernetwork) will replace BTC is underestimating the power of the network effect. I offer a small example to make my point. DOS + Windows marketshare in 2014

So, no need to worry about bitcoin’s future. New tech will certainly make its 2008 era tech look like it was from last decade. Since it was, this is not a surprise is it? The best tech only matters when there is no installed base, so bitcoin will live and thrive and always be a barometer of the overall crypto industry. This does not mean it will be the best ROI, in fact almost certainly the smaller marketcap coins will outdo BTC on an ROI basis. This is also very clear. Just do the math. BTCD was $100,000 marketcap when I joined it. Now it is about 60x more. 6 weeks, 60x. But it was “only” 6 million USD, which if BTC gained that much would be a gain of .001. So the same amount of marketcap is 6000% for BTCD and 0.1% for BTC. The next 60x for BTCD will certainly take a bit longer than 6 weeks Smiley

In any case, if BTC itself is doubled in value, then this doubles all of crypto’s value, so all this nonsense about dethroning bitcoin is just like island villagers fighting amongst themselves saying they will one day be bigger than the entire continent! No, let us all work to help each other, especially BTC and everybody wins. Except fiat.

Now there are many people in NXT and BTCD communities that understand the potential of the Supernetwork. This is what caused the “jl777 effect” on BBR. Clearly BBR as an island is having to have a large barrier for getting more people, but once it joins the supernetwork, it will be possible for people who never heard of BBR to easily find out more and become an active user. BBR’s dev crypto_zoidberg is someone I really respect. He is making the most changes to the cryptonote codebase. Some might debate how much better this makes BBR over all the other cryptonote forks, but who else is changing the blockchain format, adding aliases, a GUI(!!), plus even more improvements. I spent a bit of time with cryptonote source back when I was experimenting with pNXT. I couldnt even get the official cryptonote source to compile properly. With BBR, it was smooth sailing. I am not so good with making build enviroments as anybody that has tried to build my code will attest to, so just being able to “make” and it works. Well, that was what got me interested in Boolberry and in a couple days I was able to make a fork called pNXT. Well, going from pNXT to my accidentally become a core dev for BTCD is documented elsewhere, so I wont repeat myself here. The important thing to know about BBR and crypto_zoidberg is that he is accessible, helpful, clearly supersmart and has actually modified the block format of cryptonote, solved a most important issue of blockchain bloating, and in his spare time made nice friendly GUI. A lot of people put importance on having a team of coders, but I can tell you from firsthand experience I much rather have one dev that can do the work of 7 than 7 devs.

Now crypto_zoidberg is teaming up with me and we will be working together to make some custom improvements to both BBR and Teleport. Only time will tell the exact nature and impact of this, but with even the basic Teleport offering 2FA like enhancement to any other coin, I already have some ideas on how to, ok I will save them for later

Understandably, I am being approached by coin devs who want to be part of the Supernetwork and I am evaluating them to find their unique advantage that brings value to the Supernetwork. While the Supernetwork will be able to work with all of crypto, eg. you can trade BTC and other crypto, only a select number will form the core of the Supernetwork. What this means is that the coins that are accepted will most likely get a pretty immediate boost in valuation. Nothing like what happened to BBR in most cases, but still the fact that the coin instantly is worth more when it has direct access to the Supernetwork and also gains revenue sharing, really does increase the value of the coin. This is a permanent and significant change to the outlook of the coin.

In order to bind together the core coins in the Supernetwork I would like to make an investment to purchase a meaningful percentage to HODL. No intentions to flip after the price increase, just long term buy and hodl and collecting the revenue share. Now I have already made enough money to buy a Starbuck’s latte a day for the rest of my life, so my financial needs are met. However, I like to setup financial structure that accurately reflects the value being created. Just an obsessive thing, probably, but it just seems wrong to quadruple a coin’s value and not have any scorecard to record this. I dont mind making others a lot of money, in fact that is my primary goal when I have my “financier” hat on, so these percentages of the new coin means I need some liquid capital, BTC, to obtain.

Hence the Supernetwork IPO. It will use the funds raised to privately purchase coins prior to public announcement of their acceptance into the Supernetwork, also for some after market support and maybe even market making to provide liquidity. I will capitalize it with my personal holdings of the assets that are benefiting from the Supernetwork, sharkfund0, InstantDEX, NXTprivacy, Privatebet, Tradebots (aka NXTcoinsco). This will make Supernetwork asset benefit in the short term from capital appreciation of the private purchases and long term from the revenues generated from the Supernetwork.

Many people are finding hard to believe how it is possible for everybody to make money. Surely somebody must be losing money to be able to generate revenues for the Supernetwork. The nature of zerosum economy is just ingrained in a lot of us from the fiat world. The economy that is growing rapidly is able to make everyone in it to benefit. Now of course, anybody not part of Supernetwork that needs to compete against it, I cannot be confident in what happens, but still with the long term effect to continue to increase BTC itself, I think that even coins not part of Supernetwork will survive and even thrive.

I am seeking the right venue for this IPO and I will post more details as they are finalized.

James
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 29, 2014, 11:46:29 PM
is there any plans to put another layer of privacy before entering the teleportal for btcd? cause if a coin has i2p or something then they would be even more anon than btcd right?
exactly!
This is why I am eager for cooperating with other anon coins.

BTCD alone is corporate level privacy when you teleport it. By teleporting BBR, I would call that, not sure the right name, but better than corporate level

What I am envisioning is to have half a dozen independent anon coins. Then setup some trusted teleports between the official coin groups so when the user is making a transfer into the Teleport economy there wouldnt even be a way to know what coin it got morphed into before being sent on its way. I intend to automate BTC depositing into Teleport Station to have some default splitting/recombination/teleporting/M of N transmission and reconstruction. Instead of being like a discrete particle that you can know where it is and how fast it is moving, Teleport will turn crypto into a quantum physics wave function whose location is unknown and also its movement is unknown.

James
newbie
Activity: 49
Merit: 0
August 29, 2014, 11:41:00 PM
The core dev of BBR crypto_zoidberg (CZ) has posted about us working together.

With CZ being the only dev to make significant improvements to the cryptonote codebase, it is an honor for me that we can work together to create some super-cryptonote option for BBR. Over the next month, we will work out the technical details of how best to combine the various tech. The important thing here to note is that unlike most other coins, we are working together and cooperating at a level that really has not happened before that I know of.

I am sad to see the majority of crypto being isolated in their own island and viewing all other crypto as somehow competition. This is crazy! The competition is fiat. We need to create a giant transfer of fiat into crypto and that is what the supernetwork will be aiming to do. I am estimating 100,000+ nodes are possible by combining all the coins into a single supernetwork. What this allows is seamless commerce between all these people. This might sound like not such a big deal, but when you realize that with a peer to peer realtime exchange like InstantDEX, all of a sudden the mintpals of the world have a serious alternative. Not only will they have to compete against a decentralized peer to peer supernetwork, the fees will be lower when using the supernetwork!

So when everyone on the supernetwork can trade their crypto at a lower cost and not rely on any centralized point of failure, I think that some significant percentage of crypto trading will shift. Now, this creates revenues and I will be revenue sharing with the people who are running nodes for the supernetwork, proportional to that nodes contribution to the revenues. At first these revenues will probably be small, but as the supernetwork grows, it will get more and more significant.

The really cool part is that the more coins that are part of the supernetwork, the more money is being generated and sent out as dividends. So this is truly a big idea and it is something only possible by having all the high quality coins joining together.

The whole is indeed much bigger than the sum of its parts

James

Well done James, I love the way you think.
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
August 29, 2014, 10:58:11 PM
is there any plans to put another layer of privacy before entering the teleportal for btcd? cause if a coin has i2p or something then they would be even more anon than btcd right?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1134
August 29, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
The core dev of BBR crypto_zoidberg (CZ) has posted about us working together.

With CZ being the only dev to make significant improvements to the cryptonote codebase, it is an honor for me that we can work together to create some super-cryptonote option for BBR. Over the next month, we will work out the technical details of how best to combine the various tech. The important thing here to note is that unlike most other coins, we are working together and cooperating at a level that really has not happened before that I know of.

I am sad to see the majority of crypto being isolated in their own island and viewing all other crypto as somehow competition. This is crazy! The competition is fiat. We need to create a giant transfer of fiat into crypto and that is what the supernetwork will be aiming to do. I am estimating 100,000+ nodes are possible by combining all the coins into a single supernetwork. What this allows is seamless commerce between all these people. This might sound like not such a big deal, but when you realize that with a peer to peer realtime exchange like InstantDEX, all of a sudden the mintpals of the world have a serious alternative. Not only will they have to compete against a decentralized peer to peer supernetwork, the fees will be lower when using the supernetwork!

So when everyone on the supernetwork can trade their crypto at a lower cost and not rely on any centralized point of failure, I think that some significant percentage of crypto trading will shift. Now, this creates revenues and I will be revenue sharing with the people who are running nodes for the supernetwork, proportional to that nodes contribution to the revenues. At first these revenues will probably be small, but as the supernetwork grows, it will get more and more significant.

The really cool part is that the more coins that are part of the supernetwork, the more money is being generated and sent out as dividends. So this is truly a big idea and it is something only possible by having all the high quality coins joining together.

The whole is indeed much bigger than the sum of its parts

James
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