Topic: BTCD is no more - page 349. (Read 1328490 times)

I am assuming it is acceptable to keep a permanent record of all teleports a node has done stored on the local HDD as long as it is encrypted. If you lose these files or the decryption key, then all record of past teleports will be gone. The same goes for the actual telepods themselves.

Basically, each node will have its own private-blockchain of all the teleports it has ever done. And no two nodes will have the same info as each node will have a different history of teleports.

This does give the attacker some possibility of confiscating all the BTCD nodes before these files can be destroyed to recreate all the teleports. However due to the international nature of BTCD nodes, I think this is an acceptable risk level.

Speak up if this is too risky in your opinion

James

just a heads up. I hear a whisper campaign might start in China soon

now I am doing accounting stuff, after that I am waiting for other dev's to finish some interface code. maybe I can take a day off this weekend

James

After some consultations, I believe I overestimated the info leak from M of N fragments. It is quite confusing with all these layers of encryption and M of N splitting. In interest of getting a release out sooner, I think it is ok to rely on nacl encryption to protect the details about each telepod. Only the node right before the destination will have one layer of encryption to crack, all the others will have however many layers to the destination to crack, so this does seem like a reasonable thing.

I think proper accounting records are more important than scrubbing info from inside the encrypted packet, since the teleports without M of N wont even have this option anyway.

James

OK that's what I expected, I must have misread what you said in a prev message.

thanks

I think if on average 80% are staking, the supply is increased by 4% per year. These are statistical averages not 100% precise
so the ones that are staking get around 5% increase and a net increase of their share of all the BTCD

I guess I don't get that math.

Let's say 80% of the supply is staked for the year. And the total supply is increased by 5%. Where does the extra 20% of the increase end up?

5% is earned by those staking. If you dont stake you fall behind, eg. your percentage of total BTCD shrinks over time
so 5% is added to the supply every year (not 100% exactly, but pretty close)

You make a very good point, inflation reduces your buying power, it doesn't increase it. This is why people get/want a cost of living raise, because the cost of living is inflation, and inflation is an increase in the money supply.

But, is this actually inflation? Is 5% being added to the total supply every year? Or is it only given to those staking? Is there a max coin days?

the ones that stake will get more than the dilution, maybe the effect is like 1.5% to 2% net, at least that is what I am seeing now. At worst BTCD stakers maintain their percentage and this compounds, so it is something assets dont do. 5% inflation allows for many decades of continued income that will have the effect of distributing to a much bigger base of people than if it was 50%, which would exhaust the supply in a few years.

multisig BTCD does not stake, so if this is a big amount, it further increases the 1.5% to 2% net compounding this is why I want to at least get the mgwBTCD hodlers a dividend. BTCD cannot both stake and be in mgwBTCD form at the same time, not sure how anybody can do what you suggest. I can get dividend list as of any timestamp. All the staking is also timestamped. Where is the problem (other than coding it?)

James

P.S. We can have a poll on whether mgwBTCD should receive proportional share of BTCD hodler's revenue share

But the supply goes up by the same amount, so getting 5% doesn't give you any extra in effect. If you start off with x% of total BTCD supply, and gain 5% every year forever, you'll still end up with x% of BTCD. The only difference (compared to 0% increase like InstantDex) is that the individual BTCDs will be decreasing in price (assuming fixed demand). If 5% was powerful, why not make it 50%?


In my opinion, mgwBTCD shouldn't be getting dividends. Dividends should only be for staking BTCD. But the MGW operators could stake with the gateway-deposited BTCD, receive dividends for that and decide to pay that out to mgwBTCD. That seems much cleaner. Otherwise, what about other gateways (say someone made a mgw2BTCD), other assets that BTCDs could be used to buy (why is mgwBTCD an exception), it all gets complicated. There's also the timestamping issue. Will people be able to get dividends twice if they stake and then put their BTCD into the multigateway at a certain time just to receive extra dividends.

wut? not dropping everything to make a sock puppet video ... ? 

hehe : -) just kidding. been watching that wedge. pretty hardcore. big support, big resistance. code on bro.

looking at the long term price, BTCD is like the turtle that just keeps making slow steady progress as all these other coins get pumped and dumped. We are in the low volume steady gain phase, this is not quite normal as the low volume retrenchment usually is losing price. I thought that pic of the flag (pennant) pattern was quite textbook. Not sure of exact trigger point, but something around .005 seems to be the critical point. If the price sustains above the flag's ceiling, well, people familiar with technical analysis knows what happens when that happens. With a steadily declining ceiling and the turtle gains, seems next week is about the time. Of course, I think the market is waiting for test release and maybe that is the trigger?

Now I have more clear what I need for accounting, I am ready to code up this last big piece. Good thing about thinking through the telepod dividends is that I can make it backwards compatible, minor stuff, but with potentially big impact down the road.

offline for a while as I code toward the finish line.

James

been encouraging some folks to read this thread b4 buying, one guy gave it a go and said

"i'll wait for the youtube video with sock puppets"

anyone?

: -)

I mostly got it. Thanks for spending the time to explain it. I think I did get enough to know I'm gonna lean on buying BTCD over InstantDEX, I think.

I am not smart enough to project which will have more, I just create the money making system and it will do what it will do.
One thing you are overlooking is that BTCD compounds at 5% per year, for long term hodler this is very powerful, it will take some years but BTCD will end up doubling initial dividends, whatever they are, if you are hodling long term. InstantDEX does not give you more InstantDEX.

BTCD also will get share of teleport fees, so to properly answer your question, we need to estimate what percentage of BTC transactions (~$100 mil/day) will use teleport. So NXTprivacy is the InstantDEX equivalent for the teleport fees.

BTCD is my coin and as I make new assets over the years, I plan to slice off a portion of the revenues from that asset and dividend it to BTCD hodlers. This has nothing to do with the tech, more a financial linkage, so currently BTCD is slated to get InstantDEX and NXTprivacy revenue sharing. I would assume Privatebet revenue share will also be added. Maybe tradebots revenue share, etc. I have committed to the first two and thinking I should do the latter. Should I route Privatebet and tradebots revenue sharing to BTCD hodlers? The cool thing about putting "Nxt Inside" is that it allows for this NXT asset -> BTCD financial linkage. It also saves me from spending years to duplicate all the functionality and realistically I would not waste my time cloning it, it means not having such functions. Since it takes me no extra work to get all of Nxt features, even if we dont use it much it doesnt matter.

You can view BTCD as the financial hub of all my future assets. As long as BTCD price continues to grow, then I will keep adding more dividend flows. When BTCD price maintains above .01 for a week, I will commit to adding tradebots revenue sharing to BTCD hodlers. When it maintains above .025 for a week, I will commit to adding Privatebet revenue sharing.

Very good question! This is the problem of figuring out who is owning BTCD without compromising privacy. It wouldnt do to create a mapping from all telepods to users!! First let me answery the mgwBTCD question. It is trivial to tally the ownership of mgwBTCD and calculate prorata dividend, so yes, I will allocate the BTCD dividends based on mgwBTCD

Now to the harder question of tallying up the BTCD stakers. I have spent some time to make sure that what you have in your telepods will stake for you (with a trusted teleport the sender will get the staking), basically the last person to clone a telepod will accumulate the staking from it. This will make trusted teleports used for the high velocity transactions, which is perfect! OK, so the blockchain will show all the blocks that are mined and this will be linked to public addresses and telepod addresses. We need to be very careful to not leak the fact that you control a telepod's address!

The mgwBTCD and public address dividends are not such a problem. There will need to be special handling for telepod dividend calculation. What I will have to do is make some tradebots to convert fractional dividends (most telepods will be small and get microstakes) stored offblockchain into a combined telepod dividend in a way to not link any of the telepods from the same account. To do this without leaking info will require all participating nodes to do a mass trusted teleport of the entire network!!

This is perfect. I wanted to have some background teleport activity to provide white noise and was planning to just have some random garbage packets being sent. I probably will still do some of that, but it seemed a bit wasteful. I also need some significant amount of trusted teleports, sooner, rather than later. The mass dividend calculation solves both at the same time. Imagine a giant poker game with everyone playing the same hand. OK, ran out of cards, ooops. Ignore that, we have unlimited decks. Just trying to illustrate how to do the calculation. Everybody makes a special "chip" that has info about the telepod that staked a block. For simplicity I will make all blocks worth the same. We put a hashvalue into this chip so you can prove that you made it just with providing the value that was hashed.

Everybody uses trusted teleport mechanism to send their chips to everyone else. This will take some time, maybe even a day when the network is larger. All the nodes tally up the dividend allocation. Now each X that hashes to a value in a chip is bound to the dividend amount. Each node then applies some crypto signing validation check into a special telepod and this is bound with the dividend funding account, so what we end up with is a decentralized creation of new telepods!

This is a new project that I will have to do after Privatebet, but since the record will be on the blockchain and on each person's local computer, it will just take a bit of time before the first telepod dividends are created. Since the total dividend amount from all telepods can be determined, the other two portions (mgwBTCD and public BTCD) can be properly allocated and distributed before the telepod dividends, they will get paid first. Now we have no need for using standard denominations, each dividend period will create a new standard denomination of the prorata share of the telepod dividend and this will serve the same purpose as using standard denominations.

I hope the above was clear, but I fear I lost some people partway in.

James

Good on ya James!

I would like to see in practical methods how anybody can deanonymize the teleport economy. That has been my focus, to make it as difficult as possible, to find the weakest link and make it stronger. Once I get the M of N info leak fixed, other than the creation/extraction points, the following is the info that is available for our attacker:

0. telepod creation/extraction and cloning events are seen on the blockchain, some amount of first two are compromised
1. IP addresses of all BTCD nodes (they can just run dozens of nodes and tally the peer data)
2. using 1, they can setup packet sniffers to capture all the data coming/going from your IP address (this is expensive)
3. using 2, they can see some percentage of packet destination for next hop and also the hop that sent it to you
4. by monitoring the Internet, telephone they can occasionally get info on some teleports, eg. you email someone and tell them you will teleport them 100 BTC tomorrow.
5. by using 0 and 4, a statistical model can be created. Starting from the compromised telepod creations, the probability distribution of which acct is controlling which telepod will be created. This model is continually updated as more data comes in and at first due to the small size of BTCD network, they can brute force correlate some significant percentage of tx. BTCD is classified as an interesting but not a threat to their higher ups
6. BTCD network grows, trusted teleports are added and what used to get some results in 5 starts degrading. As the teleport activity grows, the brute forcing is no longer possible, instead of having just 10 possible telepods for each compromised transfer it keeps getting worse and worse, now it is at 50 telepods and rising. When the trusted teleports reached a critical level (I am estimating 10%), it was as if a lot of the tx just disappeared. In fact, cloning events have dropped significantly, so either BTCD network usage is actually down, or much more than 10% is via trusted teleports. Some new assessment needs to be sent to higher ups, but without 1:1 correlation between teleporting and cloning events and entirely new statistical model will need to be developed. Where was that job offer from the private sector company, ah, good, I think I will submit for holidays and get a new job. This problem will be for someone else.
7. New guy on the job, after some time recommends to focus resources on specific suspected criminals with physical surveillance. It is just not cost effective to deanonymize the teleport non-blockchain, the petabyte HDD system is almost full of all the white noise M of N packets and our Quantum Computer is taking days just to peel one layer. Let us hope only a small percentage of people use teleporting as we cant sell the database to the other agencies if everybody started using it.

The latter parts are my fictionalized projection of what I think will happen. I am designing teleport to be resistant to this level of scrutiny and analysis and while nothing will be able to prevent physical surveillance from cracking anything, no govt has the resources to do this for all people. And that is my point. bitcoin tech is presented as anonymous and it could be, but it isnt. and this allows govts to use the tech they have to investigate criminals to be turned on everyone! without any additional manpower (just more CPU and HDD), they can start building a database on everyone. And they are. They laugh at bitcoin being anonymous and in senate hearing say things like, "we are not concerned with transparent protocols like bitcoin". Transparent protocols! If you believe that govt agencies are not doing this level of analysis, then personal level privacy is all you need. However if you dont want some low paid govt worker to be able to type in your name and get EVERY crypto tx you ever made, then BTCD is the crypto to use. You will get a "suspected teleporter" notation and any telepods you created will be tagged with your name, but they will know that like the person that goes to a bank and withdraws cash, it is meaningless what happens to the cash after you spent it. They cant even find the telepod after a few teleports as it will rapidly be possible for your telepod to be controlled by anybody in the BTCD network.

Once we achieve this, then the agencies can go back to hunting criminals instead of treating all people like possible criminals just because they have crypto.

I put the vast majority of MGW code, repurposed, into teleporting. The foreign telepods will be visible both in the wallet of the other coin and also via my API, and presumably in the web GUI for BTCD. You will also be able to issue command line to get listing of telepods

James

So, will InstantDEX asset or BTCD holders make a better dividend per unit? (considering InstantDEX is 1/2 price per share as BTCD coin at this time).

I assume to get dividends for holding BTCD, you have to hold them in your wallet. Or will you be paying dividends to mgwBTCD hodlers?

(most deposit more into mgwBTC so I can but more mgwBTC and InstantDEX)

And someone sold them to you at that price. I was shocked when I looked at AE and saw the transaction.

EDIT: Saw that the mistaken price overage was returned. Good on you man. I love to see examples of the honesty in the crytpo world. I know the bulk of us are honest, but it doesn't look that way when you hear about all the scams.

I echo Springfield and James here..... mad respect frohlocke!  BTCD has attracted a different type of investor, it seems.  You'll be rewarded if you continue to HODL