BTCST account for sale! | Bitcointalksearch.org

danieldaniel

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

Quote from: E. A. Gail on August 25, 2012, 07:25:35 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bond holders do not get voting rights. They have to follow the contract like it or not.

If I want to sell the debt for 1 BTC then sell my liver to cover the rest that is might right and the bond holders can't do anything about it (other than bitch, cry and call me names).

I dont own any Tygrr bonds but i am curious and peeked at the contract.
One sentence in the contract is interesting:
"The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST."

Does this mean that the contract is violated if the bonds no longer are backed by
a BTCST account? (i am guessing that a liver is worth more though).

If it does mean that, Goat have to follow the contract like it or nor.

Edit: I know it should be "Goat has to" but the paraphrazing just looked better with have, at first.

...Doesn't he always have to follow a contract, like it or not?

danieldaniel

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Alternatively, I'm local right now (ish...India) and could bring you some of this...ummm...fine? Indian gold.

Hmm gold seems like a good deal. Since people expect a BTC crash anyway might be an awesome opertunity! BTW how is India?

Monsoony. I just got in and am sitting in a filtered-air environment waiting for my anti-malarials to become effective. I had all of biz to myself from DXB, though. It was a bit eerie.

Sounds lonely. My family and I had half of business on my way back from Africa.

E. A. Gail

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bond holders do not get voting rights. They have to follow the contract like it or not.

If I want to sell the debt for 1 BTC then sell my liver to cover the rest that is might right and the bond holders can't do anything about it (other than bitch, cry and call me names).

I dont own any Tygrr bonds but i am curious and peeked at the contract.
One sentence in the contract is interesting:
"The money gained from the selling of these bonds will go to BTCST."

Does this mean that the contract is violated if the bonds no longer are backed by
a BTCST account? (i am guessing that a liver is worth more though).

If it does mean that, Goat have to follow the contract like it or nor.

Edit: I know it should be "Goat has to" but the paraphrazing just looked better with have, at first.

AndrewBUD

hero member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 502

^ People are funny...... This whole thing is a scare to get people to sell.

hashking

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

At least I dont screw my investors or take advantage of them. I guess that is common for how you do business.

hashking

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:37:09 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:28:54 PM

Also Pirate hasn't defaulted. He did state at the start of his unwinding that it could take up to 2 weeks. We haven't finished week 1. Of course Goat is going to say they are worth 0 because it is in his best interest to do so and nowhere in his original thread does it state if funds aren't returned in 72 hours that there is a default. As far as I know he has no power to sell them at a discount.

Quote

(25-08-2012 16:29:22) Chaang-Noi: im not really going to sell it
(25-08-2012 16:29:25) Chaang-Noi: but yeah i listed it
(25-08-2012 16:29:48) Chaang-Noi: sure, ill take 99% its value
(25-08-2012 16:29:57) Chaang-Noi: but im mostly fucking around

His only objective is to make bondholders panic. If/When Pirate pays him, he'll delay payment just enough to buy all underpriced bonds on the market and screw whoever he can.

He could ofcourse avoid all this discussion with a simple yes or no, but that isn't in his best interest.

This is why I have labeled Goat as and IDIOT. He did this last time with the whole nefario drama show. Goat loves drama and if he can steal people's btc while doing it he will.

sarpar

member

Activity: 100

Merit: 10

Quote from: Scott J on August 25, 2012, 01:31:34 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:23:12 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

The bondholders should have the choice as the funds are theirs. If they want to sell at a discount then the funds should be split evenly across all bondholders, not hit pocket.

The funds are not theirs. They have given them to Goat.

He only has to meet the terms of the contract.

One more time: In the real world it matters (also financially) whether you have a loan backed by a house or backed by Jack Sparrows good name.
That his bond is backed was one elementary part of the decision-making process of every investor. If sells the underlying without offering an equal collateral it is a breach of contract.

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

So we're just wasting our time.

Thanks for the entertainment Cheesy

Raoul Duke

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Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:28:54 PM

Also Pirate hasn't defaulted. He did state at the start of his unwinding that it could take up to 2 weeks. We haven't finished week 1. Of course Goat is going to say they are worth 0 because it is in his best interest to do so and nowhere in his original thread does it state if funds aren't returned in 72 hours that there is a default. As far as I know he has no power to sell them at a discount.

Quote

(25-08-2012 16:29:22) Chaang-Noi: im not really going to sell it
(25-08-2012 16:29:25) Chaang-Noi: but yeah i listed it
(25-08-2012 16:29:48) Chaang-Noi: sure, ill take 99% its value
(25-08-2012 16:29:57) Chaang-Noi: but im mostly fucking around

His only objective is to make bondholders panic. If/When Pirate pays him, he'll delay payment just enough to buy all underpriced bonds on the market and screw whoever he can.

He could ofcourse avoid all this discussion with a simple yes or no, but that isn't in his best interest.

Serge

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

if you want to sell 40k BTC pirate account where the PPT is part of, buy out first all bonds, then do as you wish

Serge

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Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

Quote from: unclescrooge on August 25, 2012, 01:05:09 PM

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:04:09 PM

Those funds aren't his to begin with. The bondholders should decide if they want to sell at a discount and take the lesser amount of bitcoins. If not they can wait and see if the full amount will be paid out. This is their decision not his. Just like they are not his coins.

+1

+40000

Scott J

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Activity: 1792

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Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:23:12 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

The bondholders should have the choice as the funds are theirs. If they want to sell at a discount then the funds should be split evenly across all bondholders, not hit pocket.

The funds are not theirs. They have given them to Goat.

He only has to meet the terms of the contract.

hashking

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Also Pirate hasn't defaulted. He did state at the start of his unwinding that it could take up to 2 weeks. We haven't finished week 1. Of course Goat is going to say they are worth 0 because it is in his best interest to do so and nowhere in his original thread does it state if funds aren't returned in 72 hours that there is a default. As far as I know he has no power to sell them at a discount.

sarpar

member

Activity: 100

Merit: 10

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit

A sale of the underlying has the result that his bonds become more risky (Goat could default). He can't change the risk profile of his asset - usually an investor would request a markup or decide not to invest.

So it would be a scam.

hashking

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

The bondholders should have the choice as the funds are theirs. If they want to sell at a discount then the funds should be split evenly across all bondholders, not hit pocket.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Raoul Duke on August 25, 2012, 01:13:02 PM

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.

Thus if Pirate repays in full and he pays the bondholders he has honored the contract. A sale if any doesn't change that.

Goat could:
sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
not sell the underlying asset & honor the contract - legit
sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam
not sell the underlying asset & not honor the contract - scam

Selling or not selling doesn't change his obligation.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:07:07 PM

If he does do this then he is a F___ing IDIOT. He just stole his bondholders money. I guess we will wait and see what he does.

Well he may be an idiot (although given the odds of Pirate repaying in full are low the buyer may be the bigger idiot). You thinking he is an idiot doesn't mean he stole anything.
Now IF Pirate repays in full and he doesn't honor his contract then yes he is a thief but .... pst secret hint .... that could happen regardless of if he sells or not.

Personally I believe Goat will honor his debts, I just think he realizes the odds are <100% that Pirate will repay. If you owned something you believed was worth less than what others believe it is worth the smart decision is to sell it.

MrTeal

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Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 01:07:07 PM

If he does do this then he is a F___ing IDIOT. He just stole his bondholders money. I guess we will wait and see what he does.

He didn't steal his bondholder's money. The bond was issued with the knowledge that it could be bought back if Pirate repays and would be worth 0 if Pirate does not pay. As long as Goat fulfills his obligation to pay out the bondholders in the unlikely event that Pirate actually pays everyone, then I don't see why he shouldn't be able to try to recover some funds.

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

The answer to your question is bolded on the quote below.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Just to make clear the bond is now dead or closed as BTCST has failed to send me coins with in 72 hours or make interest payments.

Pirate has defaulted

Assuming pirate will ever pay in full I will pass along the weeks interest and the face value of the bond.

Again this bond is now dead and to make clear if pirate does not send fund the bonds are worth 0 BTC.

Thank you.

As you can see he already said the bond is dead and it's value is 0. He also said he will only pay bondholders if pirate pays in full.
And one more little detail: As soon as Goat sells his account, Pirate will never pay him in full. Bondholders will never see their money.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: hashking on August 25, 2012, 12:57:06 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 25, 2012, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Goat, I really hope this is not the bondholders account... If pirate pays back and you don't stand to your word of buying back, you won't get away with just a scammer tag

Why do you assume how won't repay?

He is the operating of the fund. He could sell the debt for say 10K BTC. If Pirate repays he owes 40K and takes a 30K loss. If Pirates doesn't repay then he profits 10K. As long as he intends to repay the bond holders there is no fraud. Companies sell DEFAULTED debt all the time. Default doesn't mean 0 bitcents on the coin. It simply means the debtor has not met their obligations.

You are wrong here. If he sells the account for 10k BTC, then those funds belong to the bondholders. He can't just pocket 10K BTC. The debt is owed to the bondholders not GOAT.

No you are wrong. You bought an asset which is a derivative of Pirate's ponzi, but the terms of the contract gave you no right or ownership to the underlying asset.
Your have no right to any proceeds of the sale of the underlying debt, and nothing in the contract prohibits Goat from selling it.

One point is very clear, a sale doesn't change Goat's obligation. If Pirate defaults he owes you nothing. If Pirate repays in full he owes you the full amount.

Topic: BTCST account for sale! (Read 4587 times)