Topic: Building a Miner Resources (Read 3449 times)

I totally disagree with you. The ROI of such a machine would be perhaps 2 month or so. You have to take into account that, unlike ASICS, these GPU Miners are not a one-way investment. Yes you are right: You spend 4000 Bucks for hardware. If you make 9 BTC in the first month, you would have around 1500 bucks at the current price. Even if you need to month for that goal, you can easily sell these cards to other miners or, what is more important, gamers. There are always enthusiasts who pay 80% of the original price for used GPUs. So you would get around 3000 Bucks from your 4000$ investment. That makes it profitable very soon. And from that break even point you can decide each time to sell the hardware. Luckily bitcoin mining is actually much faster than decrease of your hardware value.

Just my 2 cents.

KJ

Nah, the CPU I quoted was a mistake, I was thinking the A10-5800K was a 6-Core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113280
but it is a four-core. Which at ~$129 is probably what I'll use.

The 8-core was in reference to the FX-8350 which looks good to me for ~$200 if I decided on a dedicated CPU instead of the above (not likely at this point).

I am not planning to use the unit for multiple operations at once, I am looking at the options I have other than mining when building the rig. The "rig" must be usable for other things (at different times) for me to justify the investment. That may be where there has been some confusion in this thread for which I apologize.
The best way for me to explain it is that I am looking to put around ~$2250 into this rig. I am going to run it as a miner for BTC initially and see how that goes, if/when the ASICs make this irrelevant I plan on mining LTC or TerraCoin, which if I understand correctly can be done on both the GPU/CPU with the right miner software. Now if I decide to quit mining or want to go to an ASIC in the future, I can either dedicate the rig back to BOINC or I can remove one of the 7990s from this rig grab another CPU and have two pretty nice rigs, one for gaming/video encoding and one for BOINC/CAD work. This would work real well especially since I don't use CAD enough to take away from BOINC. Hope this clarifies my intent!

Of course any further discussion is welcomed the more input the better. 

I personally think it is a mistake to dedicate the unit to tasks other than mining. You will lose efficiency and increase the chances of downtime.

Also, you seem to have mistaken my reason for choosing the APU in my recommended setup: It was because I believed the extra $17 to be worth the extra MH/s the GPU in the APU would give.

Thanks for the input! I am probably going to use an AMD 6-8 core processor to start with considering that they are realtively cheap and have a good general utility for the cost (of course with an open system design such as test-bench, this can be swapped out on a whim if a more powerful CPU is ever needed for anything). RAM, being one of the cheapest components, I was looking at 8GB minimum which also adds to the multi-use aspect. I will also check out the Corsair you recommend.

That hashcat looks pretty cool, I had not seen that before. I am hoping to get back to BOINC at some point, I would really like to have three to five rigs to cover differing specialties at some point i.e. a miner, HTPC, BOINC, General Use, but that is not happening anytime soon which is why multi-use is important to me.

The CPU does not supply work to the GPU. Where does that misconception come from???

Just remember to have a beefy enough CPU with atleast 2 cores to supply work for those GPUs, specially if you go 2x7990 or more. And as I said earlier, 4GB of RAM is not enough for that amount of GPUs on anything else than SHA256 mining. Plan on having +1.5GB/GPU of RAM (7990 might need +3GB/GPU) for scrypt. You can find more info in scrypt mining in other topics regarding CPU and RAM requirements.

Corsair 1200AX is something to consider, someone said not to cheap on a PSU and still they offer 1000W unit when you talk about top-end 7990s and 7970s 

I'm using my rig also for hashcat so I understand your point of not making just a bitcoin miner. I used to run BOINC too some time ago.

That makes more sense now, there were a few discrepancies along the way, but that makes more sense.

My first post and several after have made it clear that I have never looked at this from strictly a ROI position. Yes I want the latest and greatest GPUs for multiple reasons. One is that these are excellent for mining as far as standard computer hardware (non-purpose specific) can be anyway. These GPUs can be used for several years to come regardless of whether I mine or not. I am sorry if my reasoning was not clear but this whole thread has been about acquiring the best current equipment for mining but that also has other uses. Right now I plan to start with two 7990s as soon as I can get them, these will be used to mine twenty-four seven but if the introduction of the ASICs increases the difficulty levels to the point that BTC mining becomes outdated with them then I can use them to mine LTC or TerraCoin. If I grow bored with mining then I still have to kick-a** GPUs I can use in various methods. It it more about usability that profitability. Do I wanna make lots of money mining? Yeah, who doesn't! But its not important! Does that make sense?

You seem to contradict yourself in your statements, you don't care about ROI, but you want to buy the latest and greatest GPUs? I don't think you know exactly what you want and you need to do further research. You can easily mine alt-currencies with smaller cards if you're not looking to profit from this.
Again, I think you're ahead of yourself in the research stage and you need to define your objectives.
Best of luck and feel fre to ask questions if you need help.

There are other alt-currencies to mine, I also use programs such as BONIC for distributed computing as well as video encoding and other more basic uses of such GPUs. ROI is not my primary motivation for mining *coin, I like the concept and want to help with the development of alt-currencies. It is similar to crunching data for cancer cures with BOINC, while mining does have the possibility of monetary payback its more about the work than the profit.  Three sources for a GPU at a given hour or day does not determine that those cards cannot be had for less than $800, you reference one scenario with someone needing money which is one viable method of getting the GPUs. There is also those that want the latest and greatest like the Titan GPU or the upcoming 8000 series Radeons which will gladly dump the 7990's to get them. Of course there are also those miners that have moved or are moving to the ASICs, when they determine that the equipment performs correctly there may be a few of these high quality GPUs and complete rigs find their way to the market as well. Its not about instant satisfaction or the need to gain a ROI within x number of days. There is no such thing as impossible! 

Thanks for the info and well wishes!

I believe it's too late in the game for GPU unless the price of BTC skyrockets another 100% from current prices ($150)...
I agree with you about the ASIC having a single purpose, however, GPUs will have a single purpose soon as ASIC gets deployed.
The only reason I keep mining is because it's profitable for me since I already paid for my GPUs and rigs a while back, especially at the current BTC prices.
Makes little to no sense to invest $1700 in a rig that won't get a return of investment anytime soon.
At the most, you'll be mining 3.5 GHash per Rig (given you install 4 high end GPUs such as 7990's) and even then, that's a $4000 rig easily and you'll be making 0.30 BTC a day 9 BTC per month at current price/difficulty you're looking at 6 months ROI and that if if the difficulty remains the same, which it certainly won't after ASIC is fully deployed... so maybe you'll have an ROI of a year or more...
the 7990's you can't get them for less than $800 and I don't see ANYONE selling an used high end top of the line card for any other reason than being broke and needing the money or to buy drugs! LOL

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131483&Tpk=radeon%207990&IsVirtualParent=1

As you can see, $900 and out of stock, and NONE on ebay
one on amazon: for $1,700 http://www.amazon.com/Radeon-HD-7990-Grafikkarten-GPUs/dp/B009RBP2WY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1364326503&sr=8-3&keywords=radeon+hd+7990

in other words, dream on buying one of those at less than $800!
No way, no can do, impossible right now.

Not trying to shot your project down, just trying for you to be aware of what you can and cannot do and what you should and shouldn't do

best of luck!

The method to that madness has basis in primarily four points. First, those $800+ GPUs can be had for less if one plans and researches before purchase. Maybe not a lot less, but can still possibly get them for cheaper than average. Second, those GPUs have uses other than mining so for that reason I think the investment is better than with a purpose-driven system like the ASICs. Third, the ASICs have yet to be obtainable in a determined timeframe and have an inflated cost of acquisition which will level out after the rush is over. Fourth, purchasing 2-3 Jalapenos for around $500 with ~10Gh processing is one of those give it a try things, if the ASICs have a few alternative uses other than mining then I could see that but if they do I am not aware of it. Of course I am new to this and may not completely understand what the ASIC can and will do.

I understand your logic concerning the power versus cost of the various ASICs but for me these are still in the "maybe" stage. We read a lot about them but there is nothing I have seen that makes want to jump on that particular bandwagon at this time. If the theories about these machines prove to be accurate and they alter the process of mining in the manner most believe they will then yeah I will be looking at the 60Gh model at that time.




Thank you for your reply, mokahless! I like many of your suggestions, the use of a mid-range CPU does give one more options of what to do with their rigs if he or she quits mining. If I am investing several hundred dollars into GPUs I have no problem spending $50-$100 more on a decent CPU which gives me more possible uses for my investment. That is also why I like the open rack-style mounting system you reference, it makes swapping things out much easier as well as easier to cool because of greater dissipation and airflow. The one thing I disagree with is the use of Linux, I have used a few *nix flavors and personally I am not impressed enough to switch from Windows. I would like for you to expand on your belief of better overclocking through Linux though, I am not sure how the OS would really make a difference here. Of course Windows needs more resources to run than any typical install of pretty much any *nix OS, that is the only way that I can see the benefit.

I disagree with a few things on this post, but mostly due to personal preferences.
Here are my points:

Save money on the processor, get a senprom there's no need to dual core, then you're stuck with a $60 chip instead of just a $38 one.
Quad rigs? yes please, specially if you're thinking about a mining farm, you can to cram as many GPU's as you possibly can in a single motherboard, heat isn't an issue if you use risers, however wasting a PCI slot is a waste. I have 3 7970's on mine but I have 4 5870's in the other one and I'm happy I don't have to have an extra machine to hold cards. Remember, CPU/Memory/MoBo/PSU/Case has to be pro-rated among the GPUs that it's serving so the more GPUs the cheaper the cost of an extra computer.
I'm not sure about the statement of finding part for quad rigs? there's the Internet, you can find anything on the Internet... a 1250W PSU is more than enough to support 4 7970s (I have 3 7970's draining 792W off the wall in the system you saw)
The rest is fine.. HDD doesn't really matter, same with memory as those things are very unlikely to fail compared to the other components, although I would insist on using a flash drive if possible, cheaper also.
Linux/Windows that's up to you... I am getting the most out of my cards in a windows 7 system using MSI Afterburner I get 2050-2300 MHash as per deepbit and it's pretty stable, almost 0 maintenance other than cleaning the rig when it gets dusty.

Hope it helps.

Here is my two cents:

CPU: A4-5300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113283
Why? Cheap cpu, two cores (just in case) and as a bonus, you can get a few extra MH/s with the APU

Motherboard: anything with 3x PCIe x4 or higher
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157339
Why? quad rigs are harder to get the parts for and harder to keep cool. They are also harder to get a powerful enough PSU for

PSU: Any 1000W Corsair or Seasonic
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139014
Why? Because the PSU is the last thing you want to cheap out on. not enough power, or a bad PSU means an entire rig is down. Another reason to stick to 3x GPU instead of 4x GPU rigs.
Seasonic makes the most reliable Power supplies. Seasonic makes the power supplies for Corsair.

RAM: 4GB of corsair or mushkin
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233349
Why? Because it's cheap and I trust mushkin and corsair. I have no real basis for this trust though.

Case: make one yourself out of wood. Set it up in a rack style with 1 system on each level. Set it up as an open-air system.
why? because it is fun and will be easier to manage than what you could buy

storage/OS space: a hard drive. Western Digital blue or black
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136567
why? because I have good experiences with WD warranty. They have an option where they send you a new drive first, then you send the defective back. This will reduce your downtime because of a failed drive.


and finally....
The video cards:

You want 3 for each system. Get them where you can and get the best deals you can find. 5970s, 7970s, etc. This is where you will spend the rest of your money so balance it out accordingly. There are no issues with mixing and matching video card generations as crossfire is not a part of mining.

Consider cooling. I personally would never use a reference cooler for mining. Also, XFX single fan coolers are total garbage. My experiences with sapphire custom cooling have been good. I also read a lot about and if I were to purchase a 7970, it would be one of the 3-fan gigabyte ones.

I would recommend installing and running linux to get the most out of your overclocks.

Mmmm so you're looking into an $800+ GPU, but when it comes to ASIC, you choose a $149 ASIC that delivers 4.5 Ghash, instead of the $1299 ASIC that delves 60GHash?
That doesn't sound right to me considering that with 10 jalapenos you were 45Ghash for $1500 when you get 60Ghash with one Single for $1299

Thanks for the info, running searches for the 7990!


Thanks for the post!

After reading both of your posts I am searching for the 7990s! Since they are a compilation of two 7970 on one board I'd think that would solve the PCI issues. If the ASICs arrive and do what they are supposed to then I am definitely going to mining LiteCoin but since RAM is comparatively cheap that should not be an issue. If Butterfly Labs follows through on their current promises and such and the ASICs make the splash there hypothesized to, then I can see a few of those little $149 units in cluster for the future. Again its more about support of the currency than profit so with a couple of those on pool and the rig I'm planning running solo for LTC, there should be some fun ahead. 

Incase you would like to mine litecoin, novacoin, bbqcoin or other scrypt based coin you will need more than that 4GB of RAM when using 4 GPUs.
You will also need powered risers for +3 cards so you don't burn your 24pin mobo connector with too much current through 12v lines.
With those risers comes the necessity to hang those cards from something since you can't directly plug them in to your mobo.

Club3d makes 7990 too, atleast in europe you seems to be able to get an 7990 for the price of 2x7970s. Since 7990 are supposed to be binned chips you may end up with better chips and thus lower power consumption or better overclocking. If you want to save those PCI-E slot on your mobo then 7990s might be something to consider as it's actually 2x7970s on one board. They do need 3x8pin PCI-E power thoug. With 1200W PSU you can probably run 5x7970s or 2x7990+1x7970 with some underclocking.

Building a rig now means mostly that you trust on scrypt or on the continous and rapid hike in bitcoin price. Those ASICs will start to skyrocket the BTC difficulty shortly and that might make SHA256 GPU mining unprofitable during the summer.

I think the 7970's are the best bang for the buck as you can find decent ones on ebay for about $300-320 but make sure they are not beaten up by other miners.
7990's can be an option too at 1200Mhash/s but as far as I know only PowerColor makes them and they are hard to find and they seem to occupy more than two PCI-E slots and there are other issues too. like price.
A test bench is fine. I keep my cards in a non crossfire setup, since they won't benefit from it for mining purposes.
Best of luck.

Thanks for the information, deathcode! Your post tells that I am correct in thinking that the GPUs and PSU is the primary consideration in building a mining rig. I will begin my search for 7970/7990s in the new/used/refurbished markets and see what deals I can find. Are other HD7000 series cards pretty good for this as well, as a general rule or are some of them not really suited to this type of usage? I am thinking about assembling this rig on a test bench set-up instead of inside a case which might be more conducive to cooling. I am planning on Four (4) GPUs, is it better to run them in crossfire or set a miner instance for each card?

As far as the cost/profit argument for me its not so much about what I can profit (of course any is good  ), I am looking at it more from the helping the cause perspective as well as building a pretty bad-a** computer (another reason to use the test-bench setup; quick upgrade-ability) which is usable for other things, especially if the ASICS do what people seem to think they will to mining. 

Deathcode, I saw your calculation here and in the other post, nice rig btw.
The only thing I consider is a flaw in your idea of buying coin directly is the price may not go up forever, so the risk of price fall may lead to a huge loss.

Imo, If ppl build a mining rig, at the end of day the worest scenario is s/he end up with a nice gaming machine vs nothing, maybe I am too risk aversion in coin speculation, coz it has less underplaying comparing with stocks or commodities