Topic: BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!) - page 15. (Read 74713 times)

For example, I noticed that one of the localbitcoins vendors in my area has some "legal disclaimer" text at the bottom of his listing, outlining such things as like "buyer acknowledges and agrees that by replying to this ad that any bitcoin or portion thereof shall not be used for any illegal purposes" and

even things like "buyer acknowledges and agrees that this transaction represents only a person to person, constitutionally protected TRADE transaction and not anything related to COMMERCE, interstate or international etc inclusive" and "does not represent professional business or corporate activity but only private party, personal use, hobbyist exchange" etc etc etc.

IF in fact Burt HAD this FinCEN license, would that have BEEN ENOUGH FOR [law enforcement] TO LEAVE HIM ALONE???

Well Burt, I'm just going off what I have learned in my personal time selling BTC. In fact, I'm just repeating what many other seasoned traders have said already, and what the company I used to work for has told me.

There are sellers who process millions of $ worth of BTC transactions through their bank accounts, have been investigated by the FBI, and cleared. They are all registered with FINCEN and implement AML / KYC policy.

The feds can, theoretically, arrest anyone who sells BTC without being registered as an MSB. I hold no illusions that they can pretty much do whatever they want if they feel like it. It happened to you, it could happen to anyone.  And I know full well what their motivations are (greed, among other things.)

I was just stating the obvious that it is possible to mitigate (but not necessarily completely eliminate) your risk by following certain guidelines. Hopefully, it will be helpful to someone. They will figure this out on their own anyway.

That being said, I very much hope you prevail in your fight against government over-reach. I truly wish you the best of luck.

I read some pretty snarky comments on the Bitcoin thread regarding Burt’s arrest and felt it necessary to start a new thread on this subject.  Mocking our family’s situation is in poor taste.  Making fun of our request for help shows a darkness of soul that is to be pitied.  A child’s life has been forever altered because of these events.  This is serious and should not be the subject of gossip or idle speculation or mockery.  I am not a member of the Bitcoin community.  I have been impressed by those trying to help our daughter recover her savings.  I have been shocked by the cruelty of others.  I’ve given everyone the ability to contact me directly.  Many here seem to prefer to gossip than learn the facts.  Micon and one other person are the only two to contact me.

Burt is a trader just like the rest of you.  His is a middle-aged electrical engineer who has been a long time Bitcoin enthusiast and investor.  If Burt needs a business license to trade for himself, then ALL of you need a business license too.

The IRS views Bitcoins as an investment for individual trading, like stocks and bonds.  The gains and losses are taxed accordingly.  If you acquire a federal business license and call yourself a business, then you will need to comply with different IRS rules and regulations as well as state rules and regulations.

The attack on Burt by the U.S. Justice Department is an attack on Bitcoins and the Bitcoin community.  You should help defend your Bitcoin community.  You could easily be next.  Burt was targeted long before the Florida arrests.  Chances are, some of you are already in the government’s cross-hairs.

Why help Burt?  Burt is a good person who has worked hard all of his life.  He always helps a friend or family member in need.  He helps other engineers find jobs.  He has taught Bridge and Biblical Greek to senior citizens to help keep them active.  Over the years our family has made generous contributions to numerous charities including the Red Cross during disasters.  We have both volunteered countless hours at our church (we are Methodist).  Burt served on the Staff Parish Relations Committee for a term.  I taught Sunday school until I had to retire during this school year due to the stress from being attacked and betrayed by our country.  Burt volunteered at our daughter’s school and taught math to 3rd graders.  

Since 2004 we have donated over $40,000 to nonprofits.  We are the ones who need help now.  Since Burt is being targeted for investing in Bitcoins, we had hoped the Bitcoin community would help us.

Because of the Justice Department’s attack on our family, we had to stop our contributions to our church, There with Care, water.org, Partners in Health, the Emergency Family Assistance Association and many other charities.  We are still sponsoring a child in Peru even though we really shouldn’t because of the legal fees.  We didn’t want her to suffer because of the U.S. Justice Department's actions against our family.

Yes, our legal fees and costs have reached $200,000.00.  It is an astronomical sum.  It represents our retirement fund, our daughter’s education, and the loan we took out against our home to pay the fees.  We are trying to raise $80,000.00.  Defending an innocent person bankrupts a family.

Ask yourself.  If the government believed you needed a business license, should the government send you a letter advising you to get a license? Or, should the government storm your house, throw you in solitary confinement, bankrupt your family, take all of your electronics and Bitcoins and cash, ruin your thirty year old business and cause financial loss to three Colorado companies?

A notice from the government is the reasonable person’s answer.

Should Burt be deprived of the right to vote, own arms, and volunteer at his daughter’s school because he failed to get a business license for a personal hobby?  Hell no is the right answer.

This case is not about paperwork, i.e., the business license.  This is an attack on the Bitcoin community and Bitcoins.  

I imagine most of you on Bitcointalk are fairly young and inexperienced.  Burt is old enough to be your father.  Imagine the government surrounding your father’s house, putting your father in shackles, putting your father in solitary confinement, and ruining your father’s business all for not having a business license.  You too would be angry and demanding justice.

There will be no justice.  The best we can hope for is to raise enough money so that our daughter doesn’t lose the only home she has ever known.  She will always be traumatized by what has happened.  She will never trust or believe in the United States.

Our family appreciates any financial help you can give us.  Our websites are www.burtw.com and www.jmwagner.com  

Thanks,

Jean Wagner

...
You've vaulted over the line from skeptic to full-on asshole.

Yup.  A new, self-moderated thread where you can astroturf & delete dissenting comments.
...
Have you tried using Bitcoin instead of cash?  I understand it's a thing

Wait, you sell bitcointalk account?  How much for a hero account, freedom fighter?

I read some pretty snarky comments on the Bitcoin thread regarding Burt’s arrest and felt it necessary to start a new thread on this subject.

Yes, our legal fees and costs have reached $200,000.00.  It is an astronomical sum.  It represents our retirement fund, our daughter’s education, and the loan we took out against our home to pay the fees.  We are trying to raise $80,000.00.  Defending an innocent person bankrupts a family.

... We have both volunteered countless hours at our church ...

...my husband was arrested and thrown into solitary confinement ...

There will be no justice.  The best we can hope for is to raise enough money so that our daughter doesn’t lose the only home she has ever known.

...Burt had an unusually large amount of cash on hand because undercover Federal Agents had been buying Bitcoins from him right and left during the months before our house was raided. ... We also had cash on hand because we had been on vacation and we are older people and prefer to pay with cash, as do most people whose parents survived The Great Depression.

Hello,

I shouldn't post anything, but I am obligated to defend my family.

You know the old saying, evil prevails when good men do nothing. 

I started a new thread to respond to the snarky people on this thread.  Here is the link:

You're first sentence is entirely incorrect. No where in the constitution or in election rules does it institute any kind of two-party system requirement. I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post because I already know that you don't know what you're talking about.

Perfect example; presidential election of 1832 had 4 candidates each taking some part of the electoral college:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1832

Presidential elections are multi-candidate races to hit the simple majority of electoral votes... which is always 50% of the available electoral votes + 1. The current electoral college has 538 electors, a candidate needs to hit 269 (half of 538) + 1 for a total of 270 electoral votes.

hahahahaaaaa  I see you still 'reaching', just because you see what you believe to be connecting dots doesn't mean the dots are actually connecting, or that they should be connected.

Here's how this connects to your "investigation" of Armis, based on information and belief you made plausible but wrong assumptions followed by logical but poor and wrong decisions.   But what you did, is what most reasonably prudent people might do if they already had a preconceived notion about key factors.  See to most people 'if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck; even if it's actually a goose.  

This case is hinging on a really fine line, one I fear, far too many reasonably prudent people would fall on the wrong side of.  Remember this isn't about the truth of the matter: "is that a duck?" it's about belief of the matter: "what do you believe that is?"  The technical 'duck / goose' difference is not something I would bet on with my freedom or $300K much less both.  

I saw a vid a few days ago where Charlie Sherm was talking to a Canadian meetup group, in it he mentioned that part of his plea is actual prison time, now of course he made light of it because that's his personality but not everyone in the fed pen is there for 'white collar crimes'.  In that same vid he spoke of how Roger Ver reluctantly decided to renounce his US citizenship (~$30M exit tax) ... Ver is not allowed back in the US (according to the vid).  

Our country isn't about right vs wrong any more, only rule of law.  

America has a two party first past the post system.  

Wonder if Burt's wife knows about this, she sure wrote up a storm...

Wow, that is a great link.  I just skimmed it but plan to go back and read it very carefully when I get a chance.

sporket:  thanks for all the bumps.  Your love and support is much appreciated.

Gosh, all the details have been shared   It's not allowed and the court as well can make BurtW and his wife remove the content. I guess nobody has reported this website.

Wonder if Burt's wife knows about this, she sure wrote up a storm...

hahahahaaaaaaa    So, what's that tell you?

The rule of law is a myth.

http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/MythWeb.htm

...about spocket. I am fairly confident that armis is not going to try to get Burt to say anything stupid.