BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!) - page 30.

NewLiberty

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Quote from: dewdeded on February 12, 2015, 02:51:07 PM

This advice is good but probably won't help much.
Pretty likely, this fed sting guys will talk about "illegal activity without being asked", after the deal is done and money & coins are already exchanged.
So you/the exchanger is already fucked, when these "evidences" are created.

For the court, the officiial timeline will obvious be changed later then.

At least the block chain will have a time stamp.
It may be slightly better evidence than what an "official" may provide.
Take home message: Don't do bad things with Bitcoin. It leaves a record.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: smoothie on February 12, 2015, 02:11:48 PM

To me it appears to be pretty simple for both BurtW and Charlie Shrem cases since they are so similar:

If a user/buyer of Bitcoin tells you they plan to do something illegal with the bitcoins you sell them, then just do not sell to them.

You do not know what Burt's circumstances were. You do not know that they were the same.

dewdeded

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Monero Evangelist

This advice is good but probably won't help much.
Pretty likely, this fed sting guys will talk about "illegal activity without being asked", after the deal is done and money & coins are already exchanged.
So you/the exchanger is already fucked, when these "evidences" are created.

For the court, the officiial timeline will obvious be changed later then.

moriartybitcoin

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★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

Quote from: smoothie on February 12, 2015, 02:11:48 PM

To me it appears to be pretty simple for both BurtW and Charlie Shrem cases since they are so similar:

If a user/buyer of Bitcoin tells you they plan to do something illegal with the bitcoins you sell them, then just do not sell to them.

It is just like if you sell a guy a gun knowing he said he will commit murder. Of course buying illegal things and killing people are two worlds apart the principle is simple.

Yeah, that is probably good advice. And just don't ASK why someone is buying or selling btc. It's none of your business. If the guy says something about illegal activity without being asked, then you're probably getting set up by feds .. back out of the deal FAST is my advice.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

To me it appears to be pretty simple for both BurtW and Charlie Shrem cases since they are so similar:

If a user/buyer of Bitcoin tells you they plan to do something illegal with the bitcoins you sell them, then just do not sell to them.

It is just like if you sell a guy a gun knowing he said he will commit murder. Of course buying illegal things and killing people are two worlds apart the principle is simple.

thejaytiesto

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I readed in reddit the other day a guy got arrested and his trezzor wallet stolen because cops thought it was a voice recorder. Anything can happen these days lol.

erikalui

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Quote from: farfiman on February 11, 2015, 07:52:04 AM

Quote from: erikalui on February 11, 2015, 06:50:06 AM

I guess he was arrested for money laundering and the same happened to the owner of Liberty Reserve because of which I lost my $15. It was a small amount but still I had not done anything wrong and I complained as well but nothing happened as the owner was a cheat himself. I don't know why people can't earn money in a legal way Huh

Evidence?

So you mean that he was arrested without any evidence? Liberty Reserve was itself used by many for gambling purposes and there was no way to verify the account and hence it was an illegal website. If I had known it earlier, I would never use it but my ba dthat I lost my money which I had earned and not used for gambling.

Blazr

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Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:32:54 PM

Quote from: matt4054 on February 10, 2015, 07:28:56 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence. I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

Nothing theymos gave was even mentioned in court.

They used screenshots of the bitcointalk posts that were taken by LE a few weeks before they arrested Ross.

They were hoping that theymos had a backup of the deleted post, he didn't, so they pretty much wasted their time with the subpoena.

SirChiko

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Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:32:54 PM

Quote from: matt4054 on February 10, 2015, 07:28:56 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence. I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

I don't think he did this, even when alot of us did donate to this case, the court didn't hear the witnesses on ross's side...

dewdeded

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Monero Evangelist

I lost $800 on Liberty Reserve and still the LR owners & operators are heros to me.
Fuck USA!

Bagatell

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Quote from: NewLiberty on February 11, 2015, 08:41:59 AM

Jail and impoverishment by legalized theft follow. Having bought or sold a few bitcoin with strangers for very small money (way under any legal limits) I can see how it could happen to just about anyone.

"Let's be careful out there."

It seems to be just a USA thing at the moment.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: pawel7777 on February 10, 2015, 07:10:46 AM

Likely a sting operation, in which he agreed to proceed with BTC transaction knowing the funds will be used for something illegal.

These MSB stings are weird.

It could be the case that no crime is ever committed by the accused beyond the disregard for the possibility of someone else doing something in a place where it is considered wrong...

I imagine a case where a sting is done by picking names off a LocalBitcoin list in some LEO's home turf. They pick a fellow that has done 5 or 10 trades and has some ratings, and they do a deal and LEO mentions they are buying acid with it.
The bitcoin seller assumes they are going to order some legal low-pH chemical online, the LEO arrests the seller for money laundering claiming that he told the seller he was buying drugs.

The accusations will be horrific, because the LEO gets to seize all sorts of property, some of which go straight to their expense account. Judge and Jury give deference to LEO because that is the standard practice. People reading the media releases will form judgements based on the accusations, far ahead of any trial. Defendant will get pressured to plead guilty to a slightly lessor charge. Jail and impoverishment by legalized theft follow. Having bought or sold a few bitcoin with strangers for very small money (way under any legal limits) I can see how it could happen to just about anyone.

"Let's be careful out there."

Honeybooboo

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Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:32:54 PM

Quote from: matt4054 on February 10, 2015, 07:28:56 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence. I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

Mark Karpales helped put bitcoin on the map too, so should theymos donate to help him out too? Ross/DPR got himself into this mess and has more than enough funds to help himself but it's not money he needs right now.

farfiman

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Quote from: erikalui on February 11, 2015, 06:50:06 AM

I guess he was arrested for money laundering and the same happened to the owner of Liberty Reserve because of which I lost my $15. It was a small amount but still I had not done anything wrong and I complained as well but nothing happened as the owner was a cheat himself. I don't know why people can't earn money in a legal way Huh

Evidence?

erikalui

legendary

Activity: 2632

Merit: 1094

I guess he was arrested for money laundering and the same happened to the owner of Liberty Reserve because of which I lost my $15. It was a small amount but still I had not done anything wrong and I complained as well but nothing happened as the owner was a cheat himself. I don't know why people can't earn money in a legal way Huh

matt4054

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Activity: 1946

Merit: 1035

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:32:54 PM

Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

I do, and yes who knows, maybe he did. Now there's a huge gap between what you do in private and what you do publicly, especially when you are the admin of the most watched Bitcoin board of the internets, with several posts already featured in various three-letter agencies reports.

To get back on topic, I agree that BurtW was a very active and appreciated member on this board and this feels more troubling to me than the whole SR downfall, because there's much more room for doubt about the exact meaning of 'derived from a criminal offense' here. Could be the PPT or anything really.

Bobsurplus

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Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

Quote from: matt4054 on February 10, 2015, 07:28:56 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence. I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

matt4054

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1035

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

Bobsurplus

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

Quote from: moriartybitcoin on February 10, 2015, 07:20:49 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Quote from: theymos on January 23, 2015, 10:17:45 PM

BurtW was recently arrested. The indictment (located by Raize):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/248973784/Bitcoin-indictment

Is there anything we can do to help him? There's a site with a donation address, though I'm a little suspicious that the site might be fake. (The arrest itself is very likely real.)

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

lol no theymos didnt do shit except helm them convict him ...

I figured as much but Id love to hear it from the mouth of theymos.

moriartybitcoin

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★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

Quote from: Bobsurplus on February 10, 2015, 07:18:50 PM

Quote from: theymos on January 23, 2015, 10:17:45 PM

BurtW was recently arrested. The indictment (located by Raize):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/248973784/Bitcoin-indictment

Is there anything we can do to help him? There's a site with a donation address, though I'm a little suspicious that the site might be fake. (The arrest itself is very likely real.)

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

lol no theymos didnt do shit except helm them convict him ...

Topic: BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!) - page 30. (Read 74713 times)