-- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?! - page 15.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: amencon on October 14, 2013, 01:03:03 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2013, 12:43:33 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:40:59 AM

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra. Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing. Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.

While I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said and would expect some mention of taping out, if memory serves, KNC taped out and didn't say anything until weeks(?) later after many requests for that information from the forums. So unless I'm mistaken, there is a precedent of a manufacturer taping out and not making it public knowledge right away.

Well it has been a week later and multiple people have asked both on the forum and indicated they sent emails with absolute silence coming back from the company.

amencon

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2013, 12:43:33 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:40:59 AM

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra. Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing. Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.

While I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said and would expect some mention of taping out, if memory serves, KNC taped out and didn't say anything until weeks(?) later after many requests for that information from the forums. So unless I'm mistaken, there is a precedent of a manufacturer taping out and not making it public knowledge right away.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:52:53 AM

BFL said they did their tape out back in August.

Please provide a past tense quote. IIRC BFL stated the tapeout was scheduled for August. End of August came and not a peep from them on that. Cointerra stated they were scheduled to tapeout in first week of Oct and that date passed with not a peep from them.

erk

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BFL said they did their tape out back in August.

Vlad2Vlad

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Quote from: Bicknellski on October 14, 2013, 12:48:50 AM

So.

No evidence for tapeout of BFL.
No evidence for tapeout of Cointerra.
No evidence whatsoever that BFL has chips on the design board or alternatively an agreement to purchase other fabricators chips.

What we have then is a faux / dummy Monarch card with absolutely 0 evidence from BFL of a chips to marry to it.

Correct on all counts.

And to add: BFL has played this game before and got rich off our crowdfunding....fool me once...

Bicknellski

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So.

No evidence for tapeout of BFL.
No evidence for tapeout of Cointerra.
No evidence whatsoever that BFL has chips on the design board or alternatively an agreement to purchase other fabricators chips.

What we have then is a faux / dummy Monarch card with absolutely 0 evidence from BFL of a chips to marry to it.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:45:49 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2013, 12:43:33 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:40:59 AM

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra. Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing. Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.

So it looks like they're running behind....as one would expect on such a new product.

This means BFL will not make its December deadline, unless they're buying from KNC, and paying out the nose.

No it means if Cointerra is running behind then Cointerra might not meet their deadline. Nothing more. The rest is just dubious conjecture on your part.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:44:00 AM

Nobody knows if BFL is using Cointerra, there's just no other way they can get 28nm that fast any other way.

You base this on what? BFL timeline insn't significantly more aggressive then KNC, Cointerra, HF, or Bitfury.

I wouldn't touch BFL with a ten foot pole but the idea that there is no other possible option except the unsupported claim you made is just false.

Vlad2Vlad

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2013, 12:43:33 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:40:59 AM

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra. Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing. Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.

So it looks like they're running behind....as one would expect on such a new product.

This means BFL will not make its December deadline, unless they're buying from KNC, and paying out the nose.

Vlad2Vlad

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Quote from: Bicknellski on October 14, 2013, 12:41:40 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:39:52 AM

Quote from: Bicknellski on October 14, 2013, 12:33:33 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

That means ZERO!

Evidence to support that BFL is buying chips from Cointerra?

Evidence that BFL taped out?

Evidence that Cointerra taped out?

The only evidence for BFL is that they said so.

The only evidence for Cointerra is that their management team is world class and have a top notch reputation with a lot to lose.

I wouldn't touch BFL, but I would buy a Cointerra rig.

Links... proof... etc... stating it doesn't really give me confidence... where are the posts?

There is no proof.

Nobody knows if BFL is using Cointerra, there's just no other way they can get 28nm that fast any other way. So they're either buying from Cointerra (or KNC) or lying their asses off....again.

And there's no proof for Cointerra taping out, you'd have to trust the management's reputation.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:40:59 AM

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

First week came and went and there was not a peep from Cointerra. Generally the three largest milestones in an ASIC products are
1) devices shipping
2) chips have arrived
3) tapeout complete

while Cointerra has never come out and said "we haven't completed out tapeout" they have simply said nothing. Given the huge significance of a completed tapeout (which also signifies NRE costs are complete AND the company has paid for the first batch of wafers) it would be "strange" for a company to complete that milestone and remain silent.

Bicknellski

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Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:39:52 AM

Quote from: Bicknellski on October 14, 2013, 12:33:33 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

That means ZERO!

Evidence to support that BFL is buying chips from Cointerra?

Evidence that BFL taped out?

Evidence that Cointerra taped out?

The only evidence for BFL is that they said so.

The only evidence for Cointerra is that their management team is world class and have a top notch reputation with a lot to lose.

I wouldn't touch BFL, but I would buy a Cointerra rig.

Links... proof... etc... stating it doesn't really give me confidence... where are the posts?

So cointerra 0 evidence provided for tape out.

erk

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Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:38:20 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2013, 12:33:33 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

Once again wrong. Cointerra has never stated they have either started or completed the tapeout.

My bad. I thought he was asking about BFL.

Cointerra led on that tapeout was done a couple months ago but they have never outright stated this. I mean, the chip has to be done by now if they're shipping end product in less than 3 months.

Cointerra said on their press release last month that tape out was scheduled for the first week of October, I just want to know if that happened, because that's as late as you would want to be for pre-Xmas shipping.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:38:20 AM

Cointerra led on that tapeout was done a couple months ago but they have never outright stated this. I mean, the chip has to be done by now if they're shipping end product in less than 3 months.

BFL has never confirmed they have completed taepout either. They simply set a vague timeline and the date passed without confirmation.

Why would a chip need to be completed if someone is shipping a miner in 3 months? It took KNC <7 days to go from chip deliver to first miner shipping.

Vlad2Vlad

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Quote from: Bicknellski on October 14, 2013, 12:33:33 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

That means ZERO!

Evidence to support that BFL is buying chips from Cointerra?

Evidence that BFL taped out?

Evidence that Cointerra taped out?

The only evidence for BFL is that they said so.

The only evidence for Cointerra is that their management team is world class and have a top notch reputation with a lot to lose.

I wouldn't touch BFL, but I would buy a Cointerra rig.

Vlad2Vlad

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 14, 2013, 12:33:33 AM

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

Once again wrong. Cointerra has never stated they have either started or completed the tapeout.

My bad. I thought he was asking about BFL.

Cointerra led on that tapeout was done a couple months ago but they have never outright stated this. I mean, the chip has to be done by now if they're shipping end product in less than 3 months.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

Once again wrong. Cointerra has never stated they have either started or completed the tapeout.

Bicknellski

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Quote from: Vlad2Vlad on October 14, 2013, 12:30:35 AM

Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

That means ZERO!

Evidence to support that BFL is buying chips from Cointerra?

Evidence that BFL taped out?

Evidence that Cointerra taped out?

Vlad2Vlad

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Quote from: erk on October 14, 2013, 12:29:16 AM

Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

They said they did 2 months ago.

That means ZERO!

Edit: I was referring to BFL.

erk

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Have Cointerra done tape out yet?

Topic: -- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?! - page 15. (Read 47772 times)