Topic: Buy bitcoin with cash deposits at most banks in the USA with Bitcoin-Brokers - page 11. (Read 104478 times)

I wanted to check back and thank everyone OTHER than this idiot prick pankkake,  on recommending Bitcoin-Broker,

My first transaction with BB was a breeze. I will be using them again in the future.

The customer service they provide is top notch.

And JFYI, Dwolla does CampBX transfers. But the first transfer is held 31 days!!!

Meaning if you havent used it before you must wait 31 days before campBX gets the funds, I did as they suggested, transferred a small amount today ($20) and use another service in the meantime. Eventually the funds will go through and then from then on ur transfers are instant.

Thanks again to everyone that was helpful.

I did read the thread u prick.

there is just as many post's saying they had success as there are ones with worries and potential problems.

Sounds like a good deal, I've written to you to inquire more about this. It is definitely interesting how this will pan out if you have more sellers. I hope you don't go on a permanent holiday though

I've never seen any indication that setting a negative vs. Mt. Gox is dis-allowed.  To the contrary, it seems to be effective

I kind of like the opportunity to guess about what might be happening with my 'competition' in the seller's space.  It adds another element of intrigue.  Of course it might add extra hassle and add opportunities for error if sellers are changing their terms all the time, but so far the brokers seem to be able to stay on top of things.  At least to my level of satisfaction.

This service is actually just plain fun.  It requires some attentiveness in order to provide satisfaction to the buyers, but presumably I could lock up things if I wanted to take a vacation or something.

Dan,
Perhaps the right solution would be to allow/encourage your sellers to go MtGox -x% instead of MtGox +x% to balance out the buy/sell part? Everyone knows MtGox prices aren't the best prices when it comes to buying Bitcoin. Just a thought.

Looks a little shady to me... I really like the concept and I will be watching closely to see how this pans out but thus far I don't feel convinced yet.

Devil's advocate:

There is another opening that users should consider as Bitcoin Brokers grows. It seems that the bitcoins the sellers place in escrow with BB are then solely controlled by BB (correct me if I'm wrong here?).

So as the business grows and the number of transactions increases the amount of btc in the current float (under BB escrow) increases accordingly. At some point in time that amount of btc may become an incentive that overwhelms the incentive to honestly continue business. I'm not saying this will happen or that the current owner is dishonest, it is just a remaining conceptual hole in the business model using anonymous money and anonymous exchange operator that I would like to point out ... in case of different owners, circumstances or copycat businesses etc.

I'm not sure what would be the best practice of closing this hole in the business model either, (maybe delegate 2 or several independents to facilitate the escrow?) .... I think ways to fix this can be found. Generally I'm very impressed with this business model and think it is Gen 1 of many more that will come and improve upon it, with more automation, crypto hardening, separation of duties, knowledge, privacy, etc.

An interim protection measure for sellers, is to only put in escrow with BB what you can afford to lose (but seeing as we are all in bitcoin only with money we can afford to lose then that shouldn't be a problem )

I'm not trying to knock on the solution which at this point I have every reason to be happy with, but I always play devils advocate and try to gauge observations against the multitude of possibly hypothesis.  So...

A very shrewd operator who was being dis-honest may halt taking in new money with stories about imbalances to give cover to a period of non-activity seen by the seller (who's coin's the operator currently controls.)

Of course a perfectly up-front operator would be happy to avoid an excess of balances for which they were responsible.  I certainly would if I were trying to run such a service.

On balance, the interesting news of the halt in accepting new buyers sellers strongly supports the 'is legit' hypothesis.  At least it does in my mind.

  edit: correct sense buyer/seller which was wrong and misleading.

The fact that the OP has capped sellers atm is a good sign for his honesty, otherwise he would just encourage more & more sellers to send coins until he'd amassed the max possible to abscond with.

Identity under escrow would be great reassurance but if the business is running smoothly should technically run fine as the owner has incentive to keep it runnin. However if any of the old timers remember it could be mybitcoin esque. I am depositing with a non popular bank we'll see how long it takes.

I guess I and crazymiata made it in just in time as sellers.  Happy days.

With something complex like this, some of the questions and considerations don't appear immediately.  One thing that hit me was that my bank (Wells Fargo) takes until the next business day to change deposit status out of 'pending' status.  They also don't make the deposit scans available immediately.

One exploit I could think of is that a fraudulent buyer issues a check but doctors things up to look like cash on the scan.  In that case I might see the funds (albeit in pending mode) and release my coins then have the check bounce and the funds clawed back.

I deem this to be a low risk thing mainly because the it would be a lot of risk for reward, and pretty clear fraud generally which the bank might expend resources investigating.  None-the-less I probably would want to wait for the banks scans and shift out of 'pending' mode before releasing multi-thousand dollar BTC values.

Anyway, I wanted to get a discussion going on this type of thing mainly because I am unfamiliar with banking generally, various types of fraud that people attempt, and how likely a bank is to pursue what types of fraud.

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Another risk which is probably not so unlikely that it should be neglected is that Bitcoin-Brokers.org gets put under pressure by regulators or law enforcement and have to freeze things.  It (and the possibility that they themselves are running some sort of scam) are risks that I weighed in determining how much BTC to entrust them with.  I'd welcome any legal theories about where the possible points of weakness are in the various aspects of what they are doing.  And what I and the seller are doing for that matter.

As I mentioned in a previous, I would feel more comfortable if Bitcoin-Brokers personal identities were available through an escrow to be released if they ran.  Partially mitigating this is that it is usually possible to track people down if they use third-party services and one spends enough time and money doing so.  Another mitigating factor is that in my experience so far, the results and service quality indicate a legitimate and effective service.

I am happy to say that Bitcoin-Brokers has finally reached a point where there is an ample supply of bitcoin available at most major banks.

A lot of new sellers signed up over the past few weeks and are able to offer up an endless supply based on current demand.

Instead of taking on more sellers, I think the right thing to do at this time is to let the buy side of the business play "catch up".

If you are an existing seller, you are in, and can continue to supply at whatever pace you wish.

If you wish to be a new seller at Bitcoin-Brokers, feel free to contact Dan through the help desk, and your name will be placed on a list for the next time the doors open for new sellers to join.

Thanks.

That's why I suggested adding SchoolsFirst to be added. Whenever I need to withdraw money I can use the ATM of another credit union closer to where I live without being charged any fees.

I'm in a very similar boat as you. I just setup earlier this evening as a seller. Testing the waters and will report back. The feedback did seem legit enough and that pushed me to try it. I will report back here as well. My account is 4 months old  is that worth anything even though I'm dealing with bitcoin since 2011.

I started using this service yesterday in seller mode and so far I am very satisfied.  The representative who I've been dealing with has good communication skills.  Not all of my BTC is sold and my banks still labels my deposits in 'pending' so I am still at risk, but I feel quite satisfies with how things are going so far.

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I have a suggestion about identity.

I prefer to entrust funds only to someone who's identity I can verify if need be (read, if they screw me.)  OTOH, there is every reason to keep an identity private if one controls significant funds as do the brokers.

To reconcile this, I suggest escrowing the vendor's identity.  I was recently involved in a group-buy and the operator escrowed his identity with John K.  The idea was, of course, that in the even that the group buy organizer ran with the items, the identity would be released at John K's digression.  This was very satisfactory to me as I have no desire whatsoever to know any individual's identity unless there is a need.

Perhaps such a thing has already been done for bitcoin-brokers.org personnel, but I did not see it.

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Lastly, it did seem to me when I was reading this thread that a lot of the participants registered on bitcointalk.org at roughly the same time.  It would be great to see more 'old timers' participating.  Not sure how to arrange that though.

I'll follow-up with an after-action report when all my money is safely tucked into bed.  I am a relative 'old timer', but I've never sold any BTC before, and the last time I even bought any was 2011.

Great. I wish you all my best.
Very good service you have there.

The best thing would be for him or her to contact me and I could discuss it with your friend.

Thanks.

That situation will never happen. There is not a person stupid enough on the planet to think that they can press this situation and get away with anything other than jail time.

Even if you were the most skilled forger on the planet and can produce an exact replica of a bank printed receipt, that still isn't going to display a deposit in the sellers account.

The seller will not authorize a release without seeing cash in their account. They achieve this by looking at their online bank account.

If the funds are not there, the seller isn't going to authorize the release.

The forger, is NOT going to "stand firm to his version". He will know at this point that he has no move but to abandon the scam.

On the flip side, the seller would never be able to get away with anything either because before any buyer is directed to fund the seller's account, the seller has to place the bitcoin in escrow with Bitcoin-Brokers.

The seller knows if there has been a deposit made. If the seller denied the deposit was real, the buyer can return to the bank, and obtain proof from the bank that the deposit was made (because afterall, the buyer would have their receipt as his/her proof). That proof would be supplied to Bitcoin-Brokers, and now the responsibility will be on the seller to prove the bank is in the wrong.

If the seller cannot provide proof that the bank and the buyer are wrong, then Bitcoin-Brokers sides with the buyer and the bank and releases the bitcoin to the buyer.

 

That's good if banks can confirm cash deposit receipts to third parties.
I just wasn't so sure if it's the case (like at a distance based on a scan to the escrower).
I've noticed that bank institutions are unwilling to assist promptly to any unusual situation
especially when it involves fraud.

Most banks keep fairly accurate records.
Most also have well staffed anti-fraud departments.
Determining whether or not a transaction has happened is not complicated.
Evidence tends to point to the truth.