Topic: Buy crypto using Ledger Live (Read 713 times)

This article shows you the step-by-step of buying cryptocurrency with Ledger, and it pushes KYC on everyone. And it states there.

That's why I'm curious why some other crypto companies have been able to operate within those states, and some have not. It's just bizarre. I do hope that you would be able to access Binance soon. 

Thank you for that link, Lucius.  I'm going to bookmark that site for future perusal.  And yes, you're right, I probably could get the exact information I need by contacting one of those "competent authorities" you mentioned, but given that my state's government is an enormous bureaucracy I don't think I'm going to go that route.

Yep, and I'm unfortunately in one of those states, though mine is not one of the biggies.

Given the numbers Leo just showed, I could imagine how badly Binance wants to expand their services into those 12 states.  I do hope they keep trying and that they don't keep running into a brick wall when dealing with the regulatory bodies. 

Pardon my French, but it is fucking baffling, isn't it?

That's a good point, actually. I suppose if you take a simplified example of two exchanges such as Coinbase and Binance, then Binance would see the biggest returns for their money by focusing on getting themselves approved in states which are not currently served by Coinbase, since there is a larger potential market of "unexchanged" customers in those states, as opposed to getting approved in states which are already served by Coinbase and therefore having to fight for their already established customers.

A fair point, but I won't be contacting anyone since I don't use any centralized exchanges at all.

Aren't they all?

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To get somewhat back on topic - let's say for some reason I decided I did want to pay these ridiculous fees and buy crypto via Ledger Live via Coinify while living in a state they do not support. Can I lie and choose an "approved" state for small trades, or do they push KYC on everyone regardless of amount?

Most likely demand... or preceived demand... if you have 1 user from a state wanting to use your service, you're not going to jump through all the regulatory hoops to make that happen... if you have 100,000 users from a state wanting to use your service, then you probably would

And then, to a lesser extent, possibly also where the company is actually headquartered or incorporated and the various regulatory/legal ramifications of that.

If your state is on the "restricted" list of a given exchange, I'd suggest contacting that exchange and asking them why they don't offer services. If it is because of the lack of demand, perhaps you could publicise this in crypto forums and try and get a show of support from other users in your state to show the exchange that the demand is actually there. Who knows, you might do all the other users in your state a big favour and get added to the permitted states

Of course, if your particular state is run by luddites and/or troglodytes, then you're probably S.O.L. There is an election coming up... maybe start asking candidates what their thoughts on cryptocurrency are before you vote

Here's the list of permitted states for Coinify:


There are 12 states which aren't on that list, which are Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Louisiana, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington.

Of the list of 12 Binance restricted states and 12 Coinify restricted states, there is a crossover of 9 states. Alabama, Idaho, and Texas are only banned from Binance, and Nebraska, New Mexico, and Oregon are only banned from Coinify.

I don't use either of these services and I am also not exactly familiar with crypto laws in each of those 12 states, so I'm not entirely sure why some are permitted and some are not. Interestingly, if you look at other big exchanges such as Coinbase, they trade in all of the above states (with the exception of Hawaii), and have an entirely different set of "restricted states". Gemini operate in all states except Hawaii.

I wonder why there is such a large variance between companies which essentially provide the same service.

Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of that, I just thought that since it's called Binance US, it's already open for people in the US. I should've thought of it being the same with the states allowed in Coinify. For sure it's all about the regulation on those states.

Saw this article from Sept. 2019 about the 13 states that weren't included.


It's a quote from the CEO of Binance US that they still plan for those states to have access. Maybe soon.

Even Binance US has a list of 12 "Restricted States" that they do not accept customers from. You can see the list in their Terms of Use here:


Given that it includes Texas, Florida, and New York, which are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most populous states, if you add all those state populations up then it comes to over 115 million people. That's over a third of the US who are forbidden from using Binance US.

Isn't Binance US going to be the one you would use for trading? I think you would be eligible to trade there.

Anyways, I tried buying through Ledger Live, and you need to have your device already, and it went okay, for sure, since I live in one of the "available countries" list on their website. It's also the same link that Lucius included in his post. Personally, it's best to earn crypto and not just buy/convert fiat to BTC IMO because of the legitimacy issues and possible KYC involved.
 

 
I checked on their website and as far as I can see about 40+ USA states have the option to buy, while selling are only allowed in the EU zone. It seems that for some reason your state does not issue a license for crypto exchanges, or that it sets requirements that such companies cannot meet.


For the exact reason, you should contact one of the competent authorities in your country, because I think it will be difficult to get such information directly from Binance or Coinify. For a start, you can read some information about the regulation of cryptocurrencies at this link -> Cryptocurrency Regulation USA.

Arrrgh!  I knew I would be correct when I posted in this thread previously:


I finally decided to give it a shot, even though I wasn't really looking to buy any bitcoin--sort of like how I just had to try using that bitcoin ATM that I posted about.  And wouldn't you know, Coinify asked which state I live in (there was a pull-down menu of states) and then notified me that I'm ineligible to use their service. 

I don't know why this is, but I'm assuming it's the same reason why I can't use Binance anymore.  Wish I could figure out what prevents residents of my state from accessing these services.  I used to be able to buy bitcoin from Circle with no problem, and now it seems there's no way I can do it using exchanges.

Anyway, just wanted to share that experience.  Haven't heard much feedback about people using Coinify to buy crypto via Ledger Live.

Now we're talking... I'd definitely back this initiative!

Seems like Ledger are simply trying to spin up new income streams...   No doubt the hardware wallet market is relatively saturated, and given they're a "one off" cost type of device, there is no on-going income once everyone that is going to buy one has bought one.

Shame they're being so greedy with such high margins tho... you'd think we the massive user base, if they had opted for tighter margins they could have actually been providing a very useful and financially attractive service... but no, they went for the money grab

Many, if not most out of the top 100 alts besides the very well known ones (Dash, Monero, LTC etc) do not have a free, fully open source wallet that allows you to use Ledger with and that leaves you with no option but to use Live. Wouldn't have been a problem if it wasn't about a closed/semi-closed source software that has some questionable updates.

I do not know for sure whether Live is fully open source or only partially as there is a GitHub repo for it (I have looked everywhere for "Ledger Live" and "open-source" together but no signs so I'll assume it's only partially open), but if it's only partially I have some concerns about it. Lots of things could happen behind the scenes such as transferring to certain parties information about the coins/balances you own using the IP you're using Live with or possibly even linking your Ledger to it because who the hell knows what's inside that closed code. This is why the new feature of having a centralized exchange in Live gives my concern an even thicker contour.


Waves Exchange is non-custodial with optional KYC (for fiat trades) and centralized trade matching. You can use that one with Ledger directly if you download the app and would've probably been a better choice to integrate than Coinify. I believe Atomic DEX from Komodo also has a HW integration planned in their roadmap (I currently have JS disabled so can't check right now) and I honestly love their app.

Yeah, and given the closed source nature of the device, we have no way of knowing for sure. Good thing I ordered mine without giving any of my real details.

Doesn't that make it worse, though? They are encouraging new users who don't know any better to submit KYC, tie all their holdings to their real name and address, compromise their own privacy and security, pay exorbitant fees, etc. As much as I advocate for DEXs as you mention, if you are willing to complete KYC then why not complete it at an exchange that charges a 0.5% fee instead of this 10% nonsense? I can pretty much guarantee at some point in the not too distant future there will be threads on here from newbies saying "I bought bitcoin via Ledger Live and now I've lost 10% of my funds! Have I been hacked?" or similar.

There are much better things the Ledger Live development team could be spending their time on.

Ledger's priority are probably not advanced users like yourself, but those who are new and inexperienced. Being an advanced user, you can use Electrum and take advantage of their advanced features, use a DEX for your crypto purchase, etc. They are trying to provide an all-around service package.

I have no interest in buying crypto through LL, but I appreciate them offering it as an option to those who do.
I would personally like them to find out why their App mysteriously stops working for certain users and fails to start. I think that is even more important than coin control.

What's Next? Gambling directly from your hardware wallet?

According to ledger, that is not the case:



Not that one wouldn't expect such an answer from them when asked tho.

10% fee!? Ooft. That's ridiculous, even by these instant-exchange standards.

I don't care much for alts, and the only one I am regularly using at the moment (Monero) thankfully also has its own fully capable wallet which is compatible with Ledger devices. If you do like to own small and unknown altcoins, then I guess not having their own wallet is one of the prices you have to pay.

Many people will have already given their real names and addresses to Ledger when they purchased their wallet, but I guess Ledger have no way of linking those details to a specific Ledger Live account (at least, I really hope there isn't an individual tracking number or data linked to each device!) However, providing KYC linked to all your hardware wallets is truly awful for privacy.

I feel the same. The need of having more control over your coins gets even worse when you own alts and know there aren't Ledger-capable Electrum versions for that alt you can use instead of Live. At least with BTC you still have options.

They have way more important things to add to Ledger Live to improve our options for privacy & control than adding a .. centralized exchange as a feature. Might've been an addition in order to compete with Trezor, but if so then imo it's a bad move.

If it's a move for money, I think it's even worse considering that they have a quite precious list of names, physical addresses (and even BTC addresses of those who paid through crypto) they could very well sell to authorities or other third parties for money. This one and my concern from a while ago when I said I am afraid the closed-source parts of Ledger might contain something creepy and/or backdoors for authorities pop to the surface in my mind every once in a while.

True.

It's the commission that they can take from the trades through this integration. This started with the multi coin wallets then slowly moved and adopted by web wallets and here we go, Ledger itself integrated.

I've seen this discussion on ledger's sub-reddit and majority says the cut is too high.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/h837g0/question_regards_buying_through_coinify/

I was a bit excited when I've seen this update but it seems that this isn't favorable for everyone.

Exactly. I bought all my various hardware wallets directly from the manufacturer. All were paid with mixed/anonymized bitcoin. I gave none of them my real name, and all of the devices were delivered to mailbox not linked to my real address. It's entirely possible to keep your details out of the hands of third parties if you want to.

Money. Ledger will take a commission fee from every trade made through Ledger Live.

I find myself disappointed yet again on the slow removal of privacy from every aspect of crypto. Needless to say, I won't be using this (not that I even use Ledger Live anymore). And despite how much I like Ledger hardware products, I am disappointed yet again in their software division choosing to prioritize meaningless trash like this when Ledger Live still doesn't even allow basic address or UTXO control.