Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 109. (Read 130094 times)

Yeah you are right, however sometimes what makes you comfortable or what suits you may not be good for you and that is why we are all gathered here and talking about Bitcoin, you may be using a strategy that you are so comfortable with but at the long run you are not doing better in your accumulation so when you see a new idea on how to do better in your accumulation journey you go with it and you must not be comfortable with it.
If you allow everyone to do what they are very much comfortable with that means a lot of offices will be locked, Bitcoin journey will take you a long time especially those who are holding for a long term so you need to engage in a strategy that will yield good result and not the one that will give you sweet rest with bad result.
I'm not saying we should not use a strategy that will suit us or we will be comfortable with, I'm saying if you see that the suitable strategy is not yielding good result dump it and go for the next.

Some exchanges allow the setting up of automatic DCAing.  You can choose an amount and a frequency, perhaps daily, weekly or some other inverval - exchanges will vary in t how an automated DCA could be set up and part of the reason that I don't like them is that they usually cannot be set up for a very specific time, but instead at the the most daily, so the exchange will likely batch all of the DCA's at the same time and might even play shenanigans with the DCAs, though maybe some of the exchanges have improved their systems.  If you are going to use an exchange to automatically DCA, I would look into how they describe their way of executing the automatic DCAs.

Manual DCA is that you do your own buy, and surely you can even set your buy up as a market taker limited order rather than having your order be a market maker.  Market takers have lower fees than market makers, and of course, people are going to have differing rates and differing options depending on their geographical location and which exchanges are available to them.

Regarding your statement:  "it really picks my interest."   I am pretty sure you meant to say:  "it really piques my interest"


Fair enough..   Let's say that you were brand new to bitcoin, and you had $10k in the bank that you had authorized yourself to buy bitcoin.  You could invest all of that $10k right away or within a few quick payments over a week or so, and I would consider that to mostly be lump sum.

You could also decide to divide the $10k into three parts. $6k to buy right away (that would be lump sum)  $2,500 for buying on dips - let's say 10 Buy orders of $250 every $1k that the price goes down starting at $62,500-ish... so that would be having buy orders down to about $53,500 if there were really 10 buy orders with $1k increments and also that you would realize that whenever you set up buy on dip buy orders, you run the risk of some or all of them not filling, so that could result in your having that extra fiat that could have had been used to buy BTC but it did not end up getting deployed.  In regards to DCA, you could allocate the remaining $1,500 for DCAing.. maybe $100 per week for the next 15 weeks. (on Saturdays in the mornings (around 9am) to be manually executed..and perhaps with some variance in the time or the way it might be executed).  

Of course, besides that $10k of starting capital, you might also have a regular DCA that you are planning to carry out for the next 1 to 4 years (perhaps on a weekly basis), and you also might have some regular buying on dips that you have planned too, but those regular DCAs and buying on dips would be planned to come out of your regular income, whether you are able to buy $100 per week with the DCAs and/or perhaps a similar amount with the buying on dips or some other amount that is within the decided amount of your anticipated discretionary income that you want to allocate towards buying bitcoin on a weekly basis and also perhaps for buying dips, too.   

You also might know that with your job, 2-3 times per year you receive a bonus of somewhere between $2k and $4k depending on the performance of your company for that period of time, but you don't know exactly when those bonuses are going to come or if they are going to come, so you don't plan your specific finances based on the bonuses, yet now that you are getting into bitcoin, and you believe that you are serious about BTC accumulation, you decide that you are going to use between 60% to 80% of any bonuses that you receive to buy bitcoin.. so each time when you get the bonuses, you are going to decide the extent to which you will buy right away with the bitcoin allocated portion or if you might employ DCA and/or buying on dip with some portion of the amount that you will have available to you.  With regard to the bonuses, the part you buy right away, I would call that lump sum, even though you might choose ONLY a small amount (or a minority) of the total amount to buy right away.. You use your discretion regarding how to divide each of the categories and how to execute the BTC buys that would result from those anticipated bonus amounts.

When you said manually, can you please give some clarification. Because base on how I understand this reply, having a fixed time to purchase like weekly or monthly is a form of automatic DCAing? Just wanna know the different between manual DCAing and automatic DCAing, it really picks my interest.



Base on my understanding, I will say lump sum is the opposite of DCAing strategy or method. Because it literally deals with one going in at once , without breaking the payment down . Like for instance I have $10k , and I want to invest on bitcoin, I can decide to break it down into 10 places which will be $200 each , and I will have a fixed time to make my purchases ( with the $200) either weekly or monthly, buying at different price interval. Or can use lump sum method by using all the $10k at once to purchase bitcoin without any form of breaking in a fixed time

The example of the person who ONLY buys when it is convenient and/or only when he figures out his budget is still doing DCA, even if the time and the amount vary.

Even though I agree with you that DCA might not work for everyone, you have not given an example of lump sum, and you have largely given an example of DCA because you are suggesting that the only reason that the guy had not executed his DCA is because he was busy with other things... yet you are suggesting that he still is interested in buying BTC, he just is busy with other things.
I would suggest that a non-DCA approach might be a guy who is not really very seriously thinking about BTC.. so sometimes he thinks about buying BTC and other times he doesn't, so he is erratic based on his own lack of conviction about BTC..

Substantively, it may not really matter so much what we call it, and so each of us have to consider how persistent we are in regards to investing into bitcoin, and surely people have a lot of things going on in life, so some of those people might set up an automatic DCA in order to make sure that they continue to buy BTC, so that kind of person might be more serious about BTC rather than a person who does not set up such automatic buys and does not even force himself to buy every week, even though personally I like the idea of automatically executing DCAs, on a practical basis, it can be better for some folks to have their DCA buys (weekly or whatever) to be executed automatically.

Maybe a non-DCA person would be someone who lacks focus in terms of his buying of BTC, and so his buying schedule is really erratic.. .. and erratic based on his own occupation with other things and his not giving the buying of BTC a very high priority (and his failure/refusal to set up automatic DCA), so that kind of a case, every once in a while the guy comes back to BTC and decides to buy some more.. That might be a non-DCA kind of an approach to buying BTC, even though maybe it sounds like a bit of a strange example since it may or may not be DCA depending on if there is any kind of an attempt at consistently buying BTC, and maybe that was the kind of an example that you (adultcrypto) were trying to describe as a non-DCA approach? .. but I would not call it lump sum unless there were different kind of facts, such a some kind of extra cashflow or even some initial considerations about how to buy bitcoin and whether to buy right away or to execute some kind of purposeful deferal based on time (DCA) or based on price (buy on dip).

I don't think we have to argue about which method is the best because what might be the best for you may not be suitable for the other base on their personality or schedule. Therefore, the existence of various methods of bitcoin accumulation is to create some varieties to so that individuals can chose which is best for them. Inasmuch as we know that the DCA method is a great method, there are people that cannot just use that method for example, people who are involved in regular traveling due to their work or business schedule, instead of using the DCA method, they will go with lump sum buy. This does not mean they are doing it correctly, it simply means they are constrained by their work or business.

Provided the intention is to invest and HODL, then whichever method that is adopted is fine. However, for people who have the time and patience to wait their DCA schedule and for the dip to occur, a combination of both methods can be a great arsenal at their disposal.

Maybe you misunderstood it because you only focus on one point. I have given an understanding in that post that DCA is the best so in that case we invest with the DCA pattern and also in conjunction with buying on dips.

Isn't buying on dips the right choice to follow up our accumulation along with routine accumulation every week. You must be able to organize all forms of plans if you are really focused on taking advantage of opportunities when prices fall

Yes, buying and holding will make you comfortable in any situation because your steps are for the long term so holding is an option that must be required.

There may be some senses in which our hypothetical is not even realistic, since I would assert that many times someone who ONLY makes a one time investment into bitcoin and who is not interacting regularly, by buying more, then that person likely does not sufficiently understand bitcoin, so in that regard, there would have had been pretty high chances that the person who initially bought $5k worth of BTC would not have had been able to hang onto it for so long without selling some or all of it, so the more likely scenario from my own point of view is that the one time buyer would have had sold too much too soon.

Accordingly, some credit has to go to the 1st guy to hold bitcoin for 9 years without selling it, even though part of my point was to contrast the whimpy buyer with the more aggressive buyer, and surely there could be a lot of different variations, yet part of the objective of trying to show a comparison of two different types of persons should be to attempt to show how they might be substantially changed by merely changing one of the variables, and in this case I was trying to just show the difference between whimpy and aggressive and attempting to show that they might otherwise be very similar apart from the whimpy versus the aggressive approach to bitcoin investing.

And, surely there is no guaranteed that the aggressive would have had performed better, and each of us can choose between being whimpy or aggressive to the extent to which the balance makes sense to our  own particular circumstances, and there may be times in which we change our approach based on some other goals (or projects or activities or purchases) that we might end up wanting to carry out in the midst of our bitcoin accumulation journey.

That's true, someone who might have not known how these things works can easily be lured into investing in bitcoin and the person who lured the investor might not have properly explained to the investor how things works around bitcoin investment, especially in long term hold. Everything will just be unfolding as surprises to the investor. So it will be difficult for the investor to follow up the investment, because at the point of investment he was kept in the dark, and he might have just programmed himself that it will be  a one time purchase.

This could rightly be the situation first guy found himself that  made him not to follow up his investment, for that holding period of 9 years. Your explanation has given me a wider understanding to why some investors fails to follow up their investment after the first lump sum purchase. If the first guy was in a situation similar as you explained above, then I think he made the right decision by not following up the investment, because  he would have ruined his life, because he would have find it difficult to sustain the investment and still take care of his other needs. Hence his decision to hold the first buy, and focus on his life is also not bad.

Situations affect people who are willing to make amends positively, and having responsibilities makes you more matured and sit up in your indifferent attitude. I would be very fast to disagree with you because I have been very much financially aware since I started DCA bitcoin accumulation process, just knowing that I have the responsibility of setting aside some portion of my earnings to accumulate bitcoin weekly has made me very good at planning my finances, good thing it spread to other walks in my life and I was able to manage my finances better.

I know there are some people who are careless with their life activities even when presented with opportunities to thrive, but if you are a student of determination, dedication, financial maturity and commitment, then DCA accumulation when followed strictly without fail is a very good teacher of those qualities.

Don't get your self confused it seems you don't understand my post, how is my informations scarry to newbies only said that investors shouldn't only depend on the dip before they can accumulate Bitcoin that the dip should only be an added advantage to accumulate more Bitcoin I don't see this information as a misleading one to newbies.

I never agree with your information, because you don't present information that scares new investors away. Here are the facts that new investors will have the opportunity to invest according to your information, and there is no fear in Bitcoin investment if the DCA method is followed to sustain the investment for a long time. You will notice that both old investors and new investors who have been investing in Bitcoin for a long time are largely successful.

Another advantage you can use with the Bitcoin DC method is to keep a separate deposit if you want to buy a dip.  And divide your total fund into three parts. Buy dips, do DCA procedures, and keep an emergency fund so that you don't lose out on investments. Because you keep this fund so that you don't have to sell your investment when you are in danger. If you follow this method then you can be successful in investment and hold the investment for long time surely you will get success.

We shouldn't only accumulate Bitcoin when it is dip for it is important we accumulate all season though the dip is just an opportunity for an investor to accumulate enough Bitcoin and HODL but if the goal is only to accumulate when it is dip it will really delay our Bitcoin investment journey. So I think the goal should be keeping on accumulating more Bitcoin and HODL weather the price of Bitcoin is dip or not the importance thing there is how much Bitcoin you were able to accumulate and how long you were able to hodl.

When going into investment in choosing a strategy it's not about how many strategies that exist but about what strategy that have proven to work profitably over-time and the convenience that exist in such investment strategy. And the DCA investment strategy has proven to be profitable and convenience for ang kind of investor both for the deep and shallow bag hodlers.

And you talk about buying just when the market is dumping . No, that's not the best way to use the DCA method, you buy at both dip-ish and non-dip-ish times as you have the funds to buy and accumulate with a long term plan. It's only traders that wait to buy and take profit only when the market dips and we can't categorically designate such characters as DCA strategist investors.

Although it still goes back to the loop of increasing one's Bitcoin portfolio, DCA can be generalised on both  side,it's just a flexible way of investing... I'm used to saying this that you can buy  an  enormous worth of Bitcoin and still take it as a DCA method , it just depending on the amount you have at hand to invest  it doesn't have to be a particular amount not saying it should be less either but there should be atleastat a regular time  interval  depending on what you can afford to invest, you can choose to invest more....

Of course I totally agree with your opinion because DCA is the best strategy to apply in Bitcoin investment. Apart from the price fluctuations that make DCA very good to apply because we can buy at different price levels every week. For that I also think that everyone has the same goal, which is to buy at dips and hold them. There is nothing to think about far because everyone certainly wants to increase their bitcoin ownership by accumulating regularly.

Indeed, there are many ways for them to satisfy themselves by implementing a strategy that is fairly comfortable for them, but in general DCA is the most widely used. Today bitcoin has gone up 4% where in this writing the price of bitcoin is traded at $63500 where the reversal is quite fast because two weeks ago bitcoin had fallen drastically and the big conclusion is of course with DCA we do not miss buying when the price drops like what happened in the last two weeks.

Although no one expects a decline to occur, market conditions still cannot be predicted correctly because the price of bitcoin could rise significantly and vice versa. Therefore, prepare cash flow as well as possible during our investment journey so that we can take advantage of the moment to increase aggressively when the opportunity arises.

In as much as the DCA strategy has enormous benefits and how much of it's dominance in terms of discussion in this thread and forum at large, I don't think it is ok to suggest that one should stick to what works best for others, every strategy has it's own unique functionality and should be applied to suit him or her and moreso, what is most important is to increase the size of our Bitcoin.

Whichever strategy or strategies that is being employed by an investor in ensuring achieving a successful investment is good.

Sure.  I understand that it could well be the case that some of the forum members who are actively participating in forum threads may well be more likely to want to interactively continue to buy bitcoin - although it is also true that there are some guys who take more of a wait an see kind of an approach in which they might not really want to continue to buy bitcoin on a regular and ongoing basis.

I do tend to recommend the more aggressive ongoing approach, but surely there is no guarantee that such an approach will continue to pay off better than a more reserved and even whimpy approach.


Surely some people are more nervous about bitcoin and also nervous about how much they put into bitcoin, and there is nothing really wrong about that.  One of the natures of even having an asymmetric bet like bitcoin, there have been a lot of historical instances in which even fairly whimpy investors have done pretty well with having had taken a bitcoin investment.. and that could be part of the reason why so many folks suggest that investing into bitcoin can end up being just getting off zero, and even if you might not take a very large bitcoin position, historically, the ones who had gotten off zero had been rewarded for getting off of zero as long as they stuck with their investment and did not get scared out of it.

Another thing that can be good about taking a more whimpy approach to bitcoin investing is that there might be less concerned about getting shaken out, since some people who are more aggressive in their bitcoin investment approach, they end up overdoing it without realizing that they had over done it and they might either get overly nervous about BTC price drops or they might end up selling some of their BTC position at the wrong time (meaning when the price is down or selling too much too soon as the BTC price goes up) based partly on how nervous they are.


There surely are these kinds of people who either don't invest in anything, consume or maybe they invest into various inferior products, and maybe some of them are more innocent mistakes than others.

For example, I have more difficulties blaming someone who might have had been lured to invest into his 401k, and so by the time he might invest 5% or 10% of his income into his 401k because his employer matches some of that and also the 401k funds are tax deferred, so then he might not want to invest more into bitcoin, since he also has expenses and wants and he feels that he is already investing enough, and so it could become a bit misleading to invest so much into a 401k, when he might still be able to invest into his 401k and also invest into bitcoin, yet sometimes it can become more difficult to invest higher portions of an income.. so there are trade offs and temptations to want to enjoy life.... and some folks might say that they are not even enjoying life, they are investing themselves to the maximum... so they would be risking too much to try to invest more than what they are choosing to invest.

Well for me I think the risk was worth taking. It is better to invest now and find out what the outcome will be in the future than to neglect investing at all, while figuring what the future will be like for bitcoin. If it eventually pay off the person that decided to invest will be considered as a wise person. If it doesn't pay off by that time, we continue holding with the hope that it will pay off someday.

From your example it was evident enough that lump summing once without following up with DCA during the waiting period is not actually a wise decision. While waiting for the x number of years, one should take the advantage of following up the investment, provided that the investor has the means. Even if it wasn't guaranteed that the extra money the investor is putting is not going to pay off in the end. It was an avenue for the second guy to save up his money by investing it in bitcoin through the DCA of $50 per week. It was a risk that was worth it. It was better than the first guy who probably was saving his extra money he was getting in Fiat within that 9 years intervals.

Having a continuous flow of income is what is most required if you’re investing in bitcoin for a long term, either through DCA or lump sum. Emergency funds are important to be set aside even before you make an investment in bitcoin. It is very important to know that having your weekly or monthly income running, setting aside the money to be used for expenses on a weekly or monthly basis, setting aside emergency funds then ultimately investing the rest in bitcoin is the more preferable approach in order not to feel tempted or have any need of touching your portfolio to solve any other financial issues that arise.

Unforeseen circumstances happen but if you’re able to plan your investment well before starting, you will not need to touch from your investment funds to solve any issue that comes up. With a continuous flow of income, and an emergency funds also, when faced by an emergency financial crisis you don’t need to panic if the emergency funds won’t be enough and can’t solve the issue that may come up. What you need to doin such situations is to just halt the investment, solve the financial problems you’re facing. After that, you can then keep some emergency funds down again and continue your investment as before.

I think you are wrong by saying that we cannot learn from other people's experience because on the contrary learning from others people's experience is even the best because you would be very lucky to have seen someone who has gone through the part you wish to follow and has already understand the challenges involved before arriving at the main point, however let's take for instance those who miss out buying Bitcoin when they had the opportunity to start investing all because of the fear of loosing there investment, so perhaps because of those opportunities they have missed, they have now realize that they have really messed up, so actually they would always encourage investors who wants to follow that part on there Bitcoin investment to change there Method because with the experience they have gotten they no that at the end they may not end up well if they don't change.