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Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 52. (Read 129385 times)

hero member
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October 29, 2024, 03:22:48 PM
So let us wait for a maximum ATH of reality without thinking
you don't wait for maximum ATH because bitcoin growth is volatile and you never know the maximum ATH bitcoin keep changing from one ATH to another even 100year from now. You can only wait for the period of time you expect to sell your HODLing either 20 or 30 years and above.
It's good that we see bitcoin price pump and if you are waiting for a new ATH, don't also allow your portfolio to be waiting too, but rather be busy buying and accumulating more bitcoin through regular weekly DCA so that you can be increasing and growing your bitcoin portfolio for the future because, there will always be a new ATH in every four years during the bull run, since bitcoin is still growing and will get more matured in future.

Bitcoin is at 72k+ does not mean that it is too expensive to continue buying as a new investor because a time will come when this price will be called very cheap. Keep your bitcoin accumulation game ongoing.
sr. member
Activity: 504
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The great city of God 🔥
October 29, 2024, 01:32:05 PM
Everyone wants to be profitable. But currently a pump in Bitcoin has shaken the thinking of about 60% of DAC holders.
Not DAC rather DCA and nothing like DAC holders, rather bitcoin HODLers. DCA is only a strategy to accumulate bitcoin, not the coin itself. Because saying DCA HODLers looks like they are holding DCA instead of bitcoin.

Those who started holding DCA at $38k now have a clear portfolio of around 50%. And they decided not to continue the DCA, but to dissolve it. If you can afford to run DCA, I'd say it's smarter to run DCA rather than lighten your portfolio. Because experts say to continue DCA hold till next cycle.
HODLing bitcoin is a personal goal not by what expert predict. Surely Most so-called experts has misleaded alot of folks. even though it may appear to be true in some what ways, But we must surely not depend on prediction expert to consider time to buy, sell, HODL and period of accumulation or time horizon.

So let us wait for a maximum ATH of reality without thinking
you don't wait for maximum ATH because bitcoin growth is volatile and you never know the maximum ATH bitcoin keep changing from one ATH to another even 100year from now. You can only wait for the period of time you expect to sell your HODLing either 20 or 30 years and above.
hero member
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October 29, 2024, 01:13:11 PM
Everyone wants to be profitable. But currently a pump in Bitcoin has shaken the thinking of about 60% of DAC holders. Those who started holding DCA at $38k now have a clear portfolio of around 50%. And they decided not to continue the DCA, but to dissolve it. If you can afford to run DCA, I'd say it's smarter to run DCA rather than lighten your portfolio. Because experts say to continue DCA hold till next cycle.

So let us wait for a maximum ATH of reality without thinking

Well I believe if you have decided to sell off part of Bitcoin just because of the current price or advantage to which you have from when you started your Bitcoin investment then I believe it's safe to call you one of the short term investors although it's a personal choice but I feel for you to be able to HODL up this long then you would have gather the sense to know that Bitcoin is actually just starting to stride and this is nowhere compared to the price it's gonna be in the next probably four years or more which is fact because no matter what the price is bound to be green at the end just takes time that all which is something you as an Bitcoin investor should be aware of by now.

I believe what every investor should do at this moment is to build have more that Bitcoin is showing its true feature which positivity despite negative runs, so instead of thinking of slicing your portfolio why not prepare ahead to see when the gets below these prices again and then you BUY that DIP and HODL IT with ofcourse continuity in your normal DCA method or which ever one that rocks your boat.
hero member
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October 29, 2024, 12:58:01 PM
BTC
A little more bitcoin ATH, we are a little excited for those who HODL but not now the goal because it is still long to expect big profits, by continuing to do DCA it is still worth it rather than selling early or staying silent.

Maybe you saw your portfolio increase above 50% or even 100% more since DCA started last year, we feel our goal is successful happily but I'm sure you will still HODL until you can afford it maybe until the next cycle.

Yeah, every holder would be very excited to see their portfolio grow based on the recent increase in price of BTC. I'm pretty sure that some people would be so desperate to take profits maybe based on some circumstances best known to them, however that's nor the goal, as a Bitcoin investor the goal is not to take profits over every upsurge, not even after a new ATH. The goal is to hodl for a longer period about 4-10 years and those who's investment journey is not up to that point shouldn't even make a mistake of selling especially those who recently started few months ago before this recent increase in price. That's why every investor is supposed to have a reserve fund and ab emergency fund so they won't be bothered of taking profits within a short period of investment due to hike in price. At this point it's best to just continue DCAing and wait for a greater profit in future.
member
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October 29, 2024, 12:55:47 PM
Everyone wants to be profitable. But currently a pump in Bitcoin has shaken the thinking of about 60% of DAC holders. Those who started holding DCA at $38k now have a clear portfolio of around 50%. And they decided not to continue the DCA, but to dissolve it. If you can afford to run DCA, I'd say it's smarter to run DCA rather than lighten your portfolio. Because experts say to continue DCA hold till next cycle.

So let us wait for a maximum ATH of reality without thinking
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 516
October 29, 2024, 12:49:49 PM
A little more bitcoin ATH, we are a little excited for those who HODL but not now the goal because it is still long to expect big profits, by continuing to do DCA it is still worth it rather than selling early or staying silent.

Maybe you saw your portfolio increase above 50% or even 100% more since DCA started last year, we feel our goal is successful happily but I'm sure you will still HODL until you can afford it maybe until the next cycle.
We are really at exciting moment as Bitcoin investors, a moment to be proud of the decision taken when others were doubting. I think this tome have shown those who are truly wise to believe this internet money like Bitcoin is normally called in my neighbourhood.

It is not late to join the party because the current bullish momentum is simply and indication of what is possible in Bitcoin and what the future holds for those who will trust in Bitcoin. Whatever method you are are using to collect Bitcoin, be intentional about it and trust the process because in the future you will look back to this days and congratulate yourself for taking that bold and wonderful decision to forfeit wasteful spending and channelling the money to Bitcoin. Continue building !
full member
Activity: 784
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October 29, 2024, 11:45:52 AM
Security the bitcoin investment is the most crucial aspect of the business because without proper security, the whole effort of buying and holding can be brought to ruins. In other words, security of the asset is among the first things everyone should learn before getting started because scammers are becoming very smart and sophisticated these days. Unfortunately, many people still do not take the issue of security seriously just like you have rightly stated. This is the reason we still have people who store their assets in centralized exchanges, forgetting the importance of self-custody.

I don't think that the level of security an investor should employed should depend on the amount invested in bitcoin because every money is important. $100 to some people might be like $1 million for some people so both cases require maximum care to the security of the asset. The first is to learn about self custodian wallets and how not to share secret information to the public. Another is also not to click on random links to avoid phishing and other security threats. There are other measures the investor must employ to remain safe.

Remember the rule "a chain is as strong as its weakest link", in cyber security this weakest link is Human Being. No matter how much security is in place for security of Bitcoin, hackers find there way to Bitcoins mostly because of errors made by human. So that aspect must also be addressed while designing the security pyramid. 

You are likely correct with any kind of suggestion that once a hacker (or person who gets access to another person's keys or wallet or account) has access, the amount may well still be taken whether it is small or large, yet I doubt that there is any real value to attempt to parse out the mentality of any kind of hacker or person who might get ahold of our keys.

It does seem important to spend more effort when more value is at stake or that the value of the loss is greater in the event that someone might get access to our keys or our account.

When a person is brand new to investing into bitcoin, maybe he is ONLY buying $100 or even $10 per week, so in the first few weeks, it could well be safe enough that the amount is saved on some account or even on a hot wallet that is on his phone, yet if the amount grows and grows and grows through ongoing buying and/or through possible BTC price appreciation, it likely becomes more and more important to figure out how to secure the coins in better ways. 

For example, it is difficult to imagine that a person might keep thousands or even $100s of thousands of dollars on his cell phone, unless there were maybe some special and/or limited purpose and time that the large amount would be on the phone.. So maybe a large transaction is going to be made, so the amount on the phone might only be there for a few hours or maybe one day or two at most.  Otherwise, maybe the amount on the phone would be no more than what a person might hold in cash in their physical wallet - which truly would vary depending on the kind of neighborhood that a person lives or hangs out in... some places are more dangerous than other places in regards to physical robberies or other kinds of ways a person might be insecure in their person and/or possessions.

It likely is a good practice to have extra security, like in the case that I mentioned in my above post where some value could go up 10x or even 70x in a relatively short period of time, then extra security might be preferable, yet also justifiable to spend some extra money or even create extra steps to access value... At the same time, it would not make a lot of sense to have such high level security for relatively small amounts, and sometimes normal people might end up making their coins so secure that they end up locking themselves out of their coins or even making it overly difficult or complicated that they may well end up losing their coins forever without anyone being able to help them to recover their coins, so there should be concerns about the negative sides to over security or even how it could become more difficult to pass down coins to heirs in event of death and/or permanent incapacitation.... which those surely are individual concerns about how much security should be taken to make sure that the keys/passwords are able to be passed down.. while potentially not giving access to the coins prior to they are authorized to be accessed.

Security is a mindset that lets you think how to secure your assets. Security doesn't mean that buy and install expensive security devices and you are good to go on internet. There are ways to secure your Bitcoin with minimal or no cost all like securing your keys on your air gap devices  (there are other such ways available also to) and there are mechanism available where you spend money to secure your Bitcoins like buying hardware wallets. It's very important that whatever option one opt, he must fully understand that security of his Bitcoin still lies on shoulder of the owner and one small mistake can cost him his entire savings in Bitcoin.
Security is usually considered an after thought but to me it must be Incorporated from day one of your Bitcoin journey. If you are well trained and capable of securing your 100$ then there is no doubt that you can secure your 1000$ also. 
legendary
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Smart is not enough, there must be skills
October 29, 2024, 11:06:46 AM
A little more bitcoin ATH, we are a little excited for those who HODL but not now the goal because it is still long to expect big profits, by continuing to do DCA it is still worth it rather than selling early or staying silent.

Maybe you saw your portfolio increase above 50% or even 100% more since DCA started last year, we feel our goal is successful happily but I'm sure you will still HODL until you can afford it maybe until the next cycle.
sr. member
Activity: 504
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The great city of God 🔥
October 29, 2024, 10:44:20 AM
Snip

Not many take Bitcoin security serious unless they lose Bitcoin by becoming victim of hacking or through other scams. There are many security measures available but it largely depends on how serious your are in securing your Bitcoin. If someone is serious in Bitcoin security then he will defiantly learn ways on how to secure his Bitcoins whether it's 100$ or 100k$. We don't know when our 100$ will become 1000$ because of Bitcoin volatility.

Your bitcoin will obviously turn from $100 to $1k if bitcoin grows by 10x and Morover for $100 bitcoin to grow up to a reasonable amount of $1k will take alot of time because bitcoin is currently $71k and 10x of bitcoin will amount to $710k which is not possible anytime soon. So If you invest $100 and expect it to hit $1k think of when btc price will increase to $710k and above, then your $100 will hit $1k. But with that being said the most important thing in bitcoin investment is to focus on continuous accumulation provides you have your discretion readily available. Because since bitcoin is a long term investment your amount invested determines what you will get in return. Let's assume you invested  $100 every week 5years ago, you will be able to have accumulated approximately $45k worth of bitcoin in your portfolio by now .and if luckily bitcoin hit 10x from now, you may be inbetween $450k ish. Although we must invest according to our Level of discretion and or our financial capacity, but a reasonable amount invested result to a reasonable result. But I don't advise you overdor when there is no Increase in your discretion.

One must keep this in mind that we constantly need to upgrade our security measures all the time.
Sure it's really important. When you think of investment, think of security because whatever has an advantage also has disadvantages.

Hackers are defiantly more interested in 1000$ but that doesn't mean that they will spare 100$. Think from that perspective.    
Hackers don care how much bitcoin you have, they are not specifically into any amount, even $5 is important to them provided there is a possibility of moving it from that wallet.
member
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October 29, 2024, 09:47:27 AM
Hope everyone bought the dip, might be the last time we see 65k for a while!

Due to lack of funds and dip wise my investment did not come due to which I could not purchase. But I have my dip purchase date on 25,10,2024, because the emergency fund I had is very small. 
So currently could not buy this 65K dip at most, only 2 more days will be available so I can buy the right dip at the right time.

We can take a few approaches to dip bitcoin, be it day, week, month and month after month. There is no mandatory rule that we have to dip bitcoin within a certain period of time. There is nothing to regret about not buying a dip today, because what you lose today, you may gain more tomorrow. As an example, it can be said that today the time of dip purchase was selected, maybe it did not happen due to lack of funds, today it received 20% of its value. On the contrary, it has been observed that it may sink by 30% tomorrow. Because the dip is not for a period of time, it will continue for years and as time goes by we can get the dip as per our convenience.
legendary
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October 29, 2024, 08:56:46 AM


I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hm no, Bitcoin is not a gamble on a Ponzi Scheme, not in the slightest. I think I know what you mean and that I shouldn't take you literally here (correct me if I am wrong), but Bitcoin offers something real and the surplus value inherent in Bitcoin has not yet been captured by the market, which means that it has plenty potential to grow. Money is always an incentive and I won't deny that, but money is as much an incentive when you invest in a sound real estate as it is when you invest in a sound monetary alternative. If you want to, you could say that investing per se involves an element of gambling, but to me that sounds too superficial and I am sure that's not the the conversation you intend to have.

In gambling people sometimes seek a way to waste time literally. To forget the present and do something that keeps them excited because normal life can't do the job. A Bitcoin investor isn't excited 24/7 I think. It is an exciting topic, but to reach the gambling effect I would have to play "Up or Down" on some gambling site, hoping that my bet on "Up" within the next 30 seconds hits. That's not how I look at Bitcoin.


Ser, read the post again, and please get the actual context. What I said was, from the viewpoint of a normie and/or a person from the traditional banking system, Bitcoin might be considered a "Ponzi" by those people like how we Bitcoin HODLers consider shitcoins.

Plus from a another, more controversial viewpoint, Bitcoin is ACTUALLY a "Ponzi", but a sort of naturally-occurring "Ponzi" LIKE GOLD.
hero member
Activity: 1428
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October 29, 2024, 04:15:43 AM


I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hm no, Bitcoin is not a gamble on a Ponzi Scheme, not in the slightest. I think I know what you mean and that I shouldn't take you literally here (correct me if I am wrong), but Bitcoin offers something real and the surplus value inherent in Bitcoin has not yet been captured by the market, which means that it has plenty potential to grow. Money is always an incentive and I won't deny that, but money is as much an incentive when you invest in a sound real estate as it is when you invest in a sound monetary alternative. If you want to, you could say that investing per se involves an element of gambling, but to me that sounds too superficial and I am sure that's not the the conversation you intend to have.

In gambling people sometimes seek a way to waste time literally. To forget the present and do something that keeps them excited because normal life can't do the job. A Bitcoin investor isn't excited 24/7 I think. It is an exciting topic, but to reach the gambling effect I would have to play "Up or Down" on some gambling site, hoping that my bet on "Up" within the next 30 seconds hits. That's not how I look at Bitcoin.
sr. member
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October 29, 2024, 03:26:56 AM

As an example, let's say you have a monthly income of $120, from which you can invest $80 in other activities and the remaining $40 in Bitcoin. have the attitude that you will invest $40 a month regardless of the ups and downs. And if you have other means of earning money then you can increase the rate of Bitcoin investment.
The percentage means making about 35 percent of the total income we make to be invested?
Even though it is a very good thing but we have to keep in mind other situations and conditions because for the initial 35 percent for DCA I think it is quite difficult to do because after all even though maybe for the first week or month it can still be done but of course this will be a little troublesome in terms of consistency because we cannot handle this large amount if our income remains at $120.
I think it's still good enough if we only allocate at least 20 percent-25 percent because it's possible we can still minimize in terms of needs but for 35 percent it could be torturing yourself even though being in bitcoin is a very good thing to do but forcing yourself because you need to remember that this takes a long time at least 4 years or even more so that with a nominal 35 percent of your income it is still very large in my opinion.
I understand what you are saying perfectly. But what I just have to add here is that, since the DCA is for a very long time. Investor should maintain the percentage that gives him some level of comfort. At the beginning he can go a bit aggressive in order to get to certain level of bitcoin in his portfolio. There will come a time when he won't be like that, he won't allocate a higher percentage to his DCA, because there will be some manly responsibilities that will make him to adjust his investment percentage either for few weeks or months.

Let's say staking his partner to vacation, to straighten their relationship, he can decide to reduce the allocation, because he will need to raise money for vacation. So period he won't have to allocate a higher percentage to DCA. There will also come a time that he will even decide to increase the allocation further, maybe he got more resources inflow. Investor don't have to maintain a stable percentage to be invested in bitcoin throughout their accumulation period. Reather it should depend on the level of resources that are flowing into your hand and your responsibilities, that occasionally comes up.
legendary
Activity: 2898
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October 29, 2024, 02:02:57 AM

Bitcoin alone holds itself in a strong position in the long term.  Altcoins can't hold their position in that way for long.  Bitcoin can return to its maximum ATH at any time.  People often fall into a state of confusion during ICO.  They are confused with attractive white papers.  People buy these coins hoping to make more profit and face losses.  They steal huge amount of money by tricking common people. Bitcoin Pow is fair and realistic where miners do what is best for the network.  Finally let me say that Bitcoin is a completely decentralized institution and completely different and risk free from other coins.
You are confusing confusion with greed. It is not because people are confused that they try to grab money via an ICO investment. It is because they are greedy to the point that they are willing to give up on their value positions, aka BTC. They tell themselves that it's only for a short period of time to flip the money for the better, but in most cases it is going wrong. Some get lucky of course, but those lucky guys shouldn't be taken as a precedent for others to do the same.

I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


There are a lot of shitcoiner talking points that may well sound very convincing to a newbie, and so he might not really know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and he may well be convinced by the talking points and/or the influencer who might come off as genuine and/or trustworthy... and maybe even as a person who has an "inside scoop" that helps to get better "bang for the buck."


Plus another talking-point is when the person uses very technical jargon that's purposefully made to be complicated to make it look so intelligent. That might be what "developers" like Vitalik Buterin is doing. Real crypto developers like Gregory Maxwell or Andrew Chow - they would probably have the same sort of opinion. But they might also won't be very public about it. Although there was a podcast Peter "Satoshi" Todd said that Vitalik is being sometimes disingenuous. There was also the quantum mining scam that Vitalik was involved in during the early days of Bitcoin.
legendary
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October 29, 2024, 01:25:00 AM
I am posting this here because the other thread got locked, but since it fits into this topic, I thought it is ok.
I can tell you that I had discussions with some people who were closely involved with BTC or had their first experience developing a digital currency in the 90s and the feelings about bitcoin were indeed mixed.
Am I missing something mate, because I know that bitcoin was created in 2009, so how did these people you said you ask about bitcoin will have the knowledge of bitcoin or digital currency in the 90s.
You might be misreading tiCeR.  I think that he is merely saying that guys that he was talking with about bitcoin had extensive backgrounds in digital currency, and they had experiences that went back into the 90s, even though he was talking with them in 2011 or 2012-ish.. .. and so their experience would not have been bitcoin specific, but instead products related to bitcoin that caused them to be somewhat skeptical about the longevity/durability/investibility of bitcoin.. so back in those days, he (tiCeR) was influenced to (or suade into based on BTC's volatility too) treat bitcoin more as a trade rather than as an investment.
That is correct and while many people think bitcoin is volatile today, the volatility back then was on a whole different level. That alone somehow manifests the impression in your head that you should buy low and sell high and trust me, I hate that slogan "buy low sell high". But since it went like a roller coaster, a real roller coaster, the whole environment was suggestive of selling when you were up 100% and then waiting for the dump because for quite some time it did exactly that on an intraday basis.

Now seriously, I could slap myself in the face, or well, I have left that behind me. But rest assured, symbolically I had tears in my eyes at times because I thought "hey man, you went into this rabbit hole because you thought this is huge, and yet you couldn't convince yourself right in time to just hold".

I did put some aside and by the way I was generous back at the time, too. Said "hey try it out" and send some... lol. But @JJG I can clearly tell that the times quickly changed from "wow, this volatility is fun and excitement and I try to time the market" to "how the hell can I get my hands onto more BTC".

But this is the point that some people here don't get. I am the perfect example of someone who on the one hand was fascinated by the technology, and on the other hand couldn't really believe that this is going to trillions. I have underestimated the massive influx of average retail people around the world. I read some books later on about market anomalies and how they spread like wild fire. Now bitcoin is not an anomaly in the classic sense, but in regards to how something that is perceived as an opportunity by people spreads like wild fire, bitcoin is similar to the Tulip mania in the Netherlands. Tulips in contrast were worthless of course. But there were many similarities, for example like the shit coin craze, the Tulip craze led people to raise all sorts of other Tulips hoping to make some cash selling them.

That leads me to the last point, I have never doubted that bitcoin does indeed have intrinsic value. And based on my own hypothesis that bitcoin has intrinsic value, I should have concluded earlier that trading with a large portion of your holdings is the worst of all options.

As it says here "Buy the DIP, and HODL", I have also left the "Buy the DIP" thing behind me. I have monitored the price all day long back in the days and there were actually still some serious dips in relative terms because 50% back then meant nothing while 50% today is close to a financial crisis  Smiley That is why I recommend Buy... and HODL. If the portfolio is large enough to sell some for profit for strategic reasons because someone feels like diversifying would be a good move (or have some cash for contingencies), then so be it. But in general, don't wait for the DIP unless we have gone through an unreal bull run for weeks and you think that a DIP is inevitable. That's possible by the way. If the market looks overheated, it can be ok to just lean back for a moment and watch. But then it is still bitcoin and it could be wrong as well. Just make a decision and don't regret it later.

I have no argument with anything that you say, yet I would just like to emphasize that it can be quite difficult for guys who are at various stages in their BTC accumulation journey to figure out how much to blindly rely upon ongoing, persistent and consistent BTC accumulation versus witnessing some kind of great BTC price rise and then start to speculate that it might be better to slow down in their BTC accumulation and to wait for dips that may or may not end up happening.  We cannot really answer for others and everyone should be attempting to decide for themselves in terms of how aggressive they are able to be in their first BTC cycle and/or even if they might have had been able to front-load their BTC accumulation in the early days of their BTC investment...

So sometimes size of stash can help to justify some level of waiting for a dip, yet it still might not be a very productive use of time to wait rather than just regularly buy.. .even though the longer that we are managing our cashflow and buying BTC with it, the more likely that we can find categories of funds that serve more than one purpose, so then even if some extra funds might not specifically be designated for buying the dip, they still could end up serving that purpose.. and whether or not we increase or decrease our regular DCA amounts seem to also be a product of how much BTC we already accumulated and/or how much time we had already spent getting used to accumulating BTC, yet there are also guys who fuck up when they attempting to strategically adjust their DCA amounts.. so each person is responsible when they try to be smarter than their own good, including if we get several years down the road and some guys end up realizing that they were way too whimpy in their BTC accumulation style and they figure out that they probably were spending way too much time trying to figure out when their might be a dip rather than just focusing on regularly buying and other ways to increase their discretionary income by either increasing their income of cutting their expenses.
hero member
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October 29, 2024, 12:07:20 AM
I am posting this here because the other thread got locked, but since it fits into this topic, I thought it is ok.

I can tell you that I had discussions with some people who were closely involved with BTC or had their first experience developing a digital currency in the 90s and the feelings about bitcoin were indeed mixed.
Am I missing something mate, because I know that bitcoin was created in 2009, so how did these people you said you ask about bitcoin will have the knowledge of bitcoin or digital currency in the 90s.

You might be misreading tiCeR.  I think that he is merely saying that guys that he was talking with about bitcoin had extensive backgrounds in digital currency, and they had experiences that went back into the 90s, even though he was talking with them in 2011 or 2012-ish.. .. and so their experience would not have been bitcoin specific, but instead products related to bitcoin that caused them to be somewhat skeptical about the longevity/durability/investibility of bitcoin.. so back in those days, he (tiCeR) was influenced to (or suade into based on BTC's volatility too) treat bitcoin more as a trade rather than as an investment.

That is correct and while many people think bitcoin is volatile today, the volatility back then was on a whole different level. That alone somehow manifests the impression in your head that you should buy low and sell high and trust me, I hate that slogan "buy low sell high". But since it went like a roller coaster, a real roller coaster, the whole environment was suggestive of selling when you were up 100% and then waiting for the dump because for quite some time it did exactly that on an intraday basis.

Now seriously, I could slap myself in the face, or well, I have left that behind me. But rest assured, symbolically I had tears in my eyes at times because I thought "hey man, you went into this rabbit hole because you thought this is huge, and yet you couldn't convince yourself right in time to just hold".

I did put some aside and by the way I was generous back at the time, too. Said "hey try it out" and send some... lol. But @JJG I can clearly tell that the times quickly changed from "wow, this volatility is fun and excitement and I try to time the market" to "how the hell can I get my hands onto more BTC".

But this is the point that some people here don't get. I am the perfect example of someone who on the one hand was fascinated by the technology, and on the other hand couldn't really believe that this is going to trillions. I have underestimated the massive influx of average retail people around the world. I read some books later on about market anomalies and how they spread like wild fire. Now bitcoin is not an anomaly in the classic sense, but in regards to how something that is perceived as an opportunity by people spreads like wild fire, bitcoin is similar to the Tulip mania in the Netherlands. Tulips in contrast were worthless of course. But there were many similarities, for example like the shit coin craze, the Tulip craze led people to raise all sorts of other Tulips hoping to make some cash selling them.

That leads me to the last point, I have never doubted that bitcoin does indeed have intrinsic value. And based on my own hypothesis that bitcoin has intrinsic value, I should have concluded earlier that trading with a large portion of your holdings is the worst of all options.

As it says here "Buy the DIP, and HODL", I have also left the "Buy the DIP" thing behind me. I have monitored the price all day long back in the days and there were actually still some serious dips in relative terms because 50% back then meant nothing while 50% today is close to a financial crisis  Smiley That is why I recommend Buy... and HODL. If the portfolio is large enough to sell some for profit for strategic reasons because someone feels like diversifying would be a good move (or have some cash for contingencies), then so be it. But in general, don't wait for the DIP unless we have gone through an unreal bull run for weeks and you think that a DIP is inevitable. That's possible by the way. If the market looks overheated, it can be ok to just lean back for a moment and watch. But then it is still bitcoin and it could be wrong as well. Just make a decision and don't regret it later.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
October 28, 2024, 11:09:39 PM
Sure people should try not to be stupid, since no one should want to lose any money, even if it is ONLY $10.. yet if they start with a small amount, then their security should be in line with the amount invested, and realizing that if they hold coin with a third party then there are various kinds of risk but also that if the bitcoin gets stolen (like through a hacked account), then it is likely that the transaction is irreversible if the hacker takes the bitcoin, even if the bitcoin is with a third party..  At the same time, holding private wallets can also be complicated, including if the bitcoin are held on a hot wallet versus a cold wallet.

These matters of the various kinds of wallets need not be learned prior to getting started, since getting started is one of the most important things. and yeah, there is a difference between the incomes of people in regards to how much security that they might feel that they need based on their income and/or their other resources, so there is a difference between investing $10, versus $100, versus $10k versus $500k or some other amounts...and yeah, sometimes there needs to be extra security to account for potential changes in value.. since for example, even in 2020/2021, there might have been some guys who might have been somewhat lax in their security if they had $8k invested or in a wallet, but then after the BTC price went from $7k to more than $60k their $8k might have all of a sudden turned into $70k-ish.. and similarly in 2017 (although that is further back in history, when $5k to $8k might have been in some wallets and the BTC price was around $250-ish in mid to late 2015 - yet by late 2017, the BTC price went up nearly 78x, so that $5k to $8k would have turned into $390k to $624k, and so that would have been an even more extreme example how the security should have been more important, since maybe a person might have been o.k. to keep $5k to $8k on their phone.. even though that seemed a bit much, but then if the amount turned into $390k to $624k.. then they might have become quite nervous since maybe their whole networth might have been less than $50k and then all of a sudden their whole networth goes up 8x to 10x or more and much of their value is on their phone, which would not have had been a very good and/or secure place to be. .even though I think some folks did find themselves in those kinds of situations in 2017.. and their security did not keep up with the size/value appreciation of their BTC holdings.
Not many take Bitcoin security serious unless they lose Bitcoin by becoming victim of hacking or through other scams. There are many security measures available but it largely depends on how serious your are in securing your Bitcoin. If someone is serious in Bitcoin security then he will defiantly learn ways on how to secure his Bitcoins whether it's 100$ or 100k$. We don't know when our 100$ will become 1000$ because of Bitcoin volatility. One must keep this in mind that we constantly need to upgrade our security measures all the time. Hackers are defiantly more interested in 1000$ but that doesn't mean that they will spare 100$. Think from that perspective.     

You are likely correct with any kind of suggestion that once a hacker (or person who gets access to another person's keys or wallet or account) has access, the amount may well still be taken whether it is small or large, yet I doubt that there is any real value to attempt to parse out the mentality of any kind of hacker or person who might get ahold of our keys.

It does seem important to spend more effort when more value is at stake or that the value of the loss is greater in the event that someone might get access to our keys or our account.

When a person is brand new to investing into bitcoin, maybe he is ONLY buying $100 or even $10 per week, so in the first few weeks, it could well be safe enough that the amount is saved on some account or even on a hot wallet that is on his phone, yet if the amount grows and grows and grows through ongoing buying and/or through possible BTC price appreciation, it likely becomes more and more important to figure out how to secure the coins in better ways. 

For example, it is difficult to imagine that a person might keep thousands or even $100s of thousands of dollars on his cell phone, unless there were maybe some special and/or limited purpose and time that the large amount would be on the phone.. So maybe a large transaction is going to be made, so the amount on the phone might only be there for a few hours or maybe one day or two at most.  Otherwise, maybe the amount on the phone would be no more than what a person might hold in cash in their physical wallet - which truly would vary depending on the kind of neighborhood that a person lives or hangs out in... some places are more dangerous than other places in regards to physical robberies or other kinds of ways a person might be insecure in their person and/or possessions.

It likely is a good practice to have extra security, like in the case that I mentioned in my above post where some value could go up 10x or even 70x in a relatively short period of time, then extra security might be preferable, yet also justifiable to spend some extra money or even create extra steps to access value... At the same time, it would not make a lot of sense to have such high level security for relatively small amounts, and sometimes normal people might end up making their coins so secure that they end up locking themselves out of their coins or even making it overly difficult or complicated that they may well end up losing their coins forever without anyone being able to help them to recover their coins, so there should be concerns about the negative sides to over security or even how it could become more difficult to pass down coins to heirs in event of death and/or permanent incapacitation.... which those surely are individual concerns about how much security should be taken to make sure that the keys/passwords are able to be passed down.. while potentially not giving access to the coins prior to they are authorized to be accessed.

[edited out]
Security the bitcoin investment is the most crucial aspect of the business because without proper security, the whole effort of buying and holding can be brought to ruins. In other words, security of the asset is among the first things everyone should learn before getting started because scammers are becoming very smart and sophisticated these days.

This is the point that I keep trying to make, and guys keep saying the opposite, which I believe is wrong.

If you only have $10 fucking dollars in BTC you do not need to learn a whole bunch of stuff about how to secure your keys and the various kinds of security blah blah blah.

The more that you buy, the more you likely should learn, but you can learn some of these things as you go, and surely some guys might not even realize how vulnerable that they are, so there can be complications in believing coins are secure when they are not.

Unfortunately, many people still do not take the issue of security seriously just like you have rightly stated. This is the reason we still have people who store their assets in centralized exchanges, forgetting the importance of self-custody.

I don't mind continuing to stress that self-custody is better than holding coins with centralized services, yet some folks are going to have challenges to secure their coins in private ways without screwing up their security.

I don't think that the level of security an investor should employed should depend on the amount invested in bitcoin because every money is important. $100 to some people might be like $1 million for some people so both cases require maximum care to the security of the asset.

That is a ridiculous statement to proclaim everyone is the same and security is the same for everyone and/or all amounts.  Of course, there are different levels of security for different amounts, and also people have to also figure out their own abilities to learn and not fuck things up.  When you proclaim that the security is the same for everyone, you fail/refuse to prioritize and/or to tailor your discussion to the varying circumstances of individuals. There maybe be elderly folks who might not have abilities to learn and they might be best off to have third-party accounts and even ETFs. There are also trade-offs in regards to owning actual BTC versus owning exposure to BTC prices by owning shares and/or IOUs. 

It can be difficult to argue how much security a person needs, since some folks might have permanent residential locations and even various places of relatives that they can place keys, and other people might live in more mobile ways with even difficulties of having data on a phone or backing up their data on a phone.  Different kinds of security practices might be practical and/or doable, and there are also some folks who $40k would be 5-10x their annual salary, so they may well have to guard that amount a lot more closely than another person who might have $10 million or more in networth, and the more well to do person might have several million in bitcoin, and also have investments in other assets and property and consider $40k as an amount that he spends every 1-3 months, depending on his activities. 

The first is to learn about self custodian wallets and how not to share secret information to the public.

Do normie newbies need to learn those kinds of things before getting started in bitcoin?  I doubt it.

Another is also not to click on random links to avoid phishing and other security threats. There are other measures the investor must employ to remain safe.

Of course, people vary in their already existing knowledge of secure practices, and secure practices become more important when value is being secured as compared to when mere information is secured, so there is likely value to continue learning how to stay secure, which again the level of security is also going to depend on amounts and also depend on various aspects of the person and his financial/psychological situation.

Bitcoin alone holds itself in a strong position in the long term.  Altcoins can't hold their position in that way for long.  Bitcoin can return to its maximum ATH at any time.  People often fall into a state of confusion during ICO.  They are confused with attractive white papers.  People buy these coins hoping to make more profit and face losses.  They steal huge amount of money by tricking common people. Bitcoin Pow is fair and realistic where miners do what is best for the network.  Finally let me say that Bitcoin is a completely decentralized institution and completely different and risk free from other coins.
You are confusing confusion with greed. It is not because people are confused that they try to grab money via an ICO investment. It is because they are greedy to the point that they are willing to give up on their value positions, aka BTC. They tell themselves that it's only for a short period of time to flip the money for the better, but in most cases it is going wrong. Some get lucky of course, but those lucky guys shouldn't be taken as a precedent for others to do the same.
I believe not. OR not entirely. "Greed" is only part of the reason, but that's the wrong word to use in my personal opinion. It's because it's in our nature as humans to feel the need to be incentivized, therefore we have an urge to GAMBLE. Plus from the a normie's viewpoint, our investments in Bitcoin is a gamble on a "Ponzi Scheme" caused by greed. Haha.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There are a lot of shitcoiner talking points that may well sound very convincing to a newbie, and so he might not really know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and he may well be convinced by the talking points and/or the influencer who might come off as genuine and/or trustworthy... and maybe even as a person who has an "inside scoop" that helps to get better "bang for the buck."

As an example, let's say you have a monthly income of $120, from which you can invest $80 in other activities and the remaining $40 in Bitcoin. have the attitude that you will invest $40 a month regardless of the ups and downs. And if you have other means of earning money then you can increase the rate of Bitcoin investment.
The percentage means making about 35 percent of the total income we make to be invested?
Even though it is a very good thing but we have to keep in mind other situations and conditions because for the initial 35 percent for DCA I think it is quite difficult to do because after all even though maybe for the first week or month it can still be done but of course this will be a little troublesome in terms of consistency because we cannot handle this large amount if our income remains at $120.
I think it's still good enough if we only allocate at least 20 percent-25 percent because it's possible we can still minimize in terms of needs but for 35 percent it could be torturing yourself even though being in bitcoin is a very good thing to do but forcing yourself because you need to remember that this takes a long time at least 4 years or even more so that with a nominal 35 percent of your income it is still very large in my opinion.

Some of these numbers are a bit screwed up and even confusing.  If a person is able to consistently invest 35% of his income into bitcoin, then after only 3 years he would have had invested a whole year's worth of income into bitcoin, which truly would be a good thing if he is able to sustain himself off of that amount and it could well be the case that bitcoin might go up in value during the investment period too.

One of the issues when dealing with such seemingly small amounts would be that if a person is living off such small amounts, then might he not want to increase his standard of living down the road? 

Standard of living is truly a personal determination, so it is difficult to intervene and to say how much is enough and/or how much is more than enough, though personally I get the sense that if a person is able to invest (or otherwise arrive at having at least 10 year's income into bitcoin), then it starts to become possible to start to live off the BTC as a source of income in a sustainable way as long as the valuation is using the 200-WMA and withdrawals are taking place within limits of no more than 10% per year while the BTC spot price is at least 25% higher than the 200WMA..   

So reaching a high enough level to start sustainable withdrawals might also have better sense of security if some extra amounts are accumulated so that there is a bit of a cushion and the person is able to figure out that the math works for him to transition from accumulating BTC into a status of withdrawing from it.. .. yet there also might be a period of time in which accumulation had stopped and withdrawing had not yet started.. so the BTC holdings might be mostly maintained and presumptively continuing to grow in terms of value, even if the amount of BTC might not be growing in size.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 350
October 28, 2024, 09:14:44 PM
So there is still enough time to invest so it is best to wait long time before investing in bitcoins.


I don't understand what you mean by there is still enough time to invest and also waiting for long before investing.
I don't think there is any need waiting for long time before investing into Bitcoin if the money is readily available and also having some basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment and also ensure the security of the wallet where your Bitcoin is kept to avoid been hack by hack by fruadsters,
Bitcoin investing requires little knowledge at the initial stage. The ones you mentioned fall under basic knowledge. Moreover, the security of the wallet in which the investors keep their bitcoins has to be done by the investor. If your wallet is safe, your bitcoins will be safe. So the wallet seed phrase must be properly secured so that hackers cannot access your wallet in any way.
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trying to wait for long time before investing might lead to procastination so it will be better to start now and adopt the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin where you purchase regularly either weekly or monthly irrespective of the price of Bitcoin and HODL for long.
I have experienced firsthand that waiting too long to invest can hinder investment. Because last couple of days with slight dumping of Bitcoin I was waiting for a lump sum purchase with $430 amount (besides I did regular DCA). I thought maybe the price of bitcoin will come to 65 thousand dollars, but that is not the case, the market has now gone up. So maybe we shouldn't think that we will buy when the price of Bitcoin goes down. Those who wait for the dip period to invest will regret it later when the price of Bitcoin rises. So when investing in Bitcoin be prepared to buy immediately i.e. buy whenever you get an opportunity in any market conditions.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 131
Bitcoin or nothing
October 28, 2024, 08:08:30 PM
So there is still enough time to invest so it is best to wait long time before investing in bitcoins.


I don't understand what you mean by there is still enough time to invest and also waiting for long before investing.
I don't think there is any need waiting for long time before investing into Bitcoin if the money is readily available and also having some basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment and also ensure the security of the wallet where your Bitcoin is kept to avoid been hack by hack by fruadsters, trying to wait for long time before investing might lead to procastination so it will be better to start now and adopt the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin where you purchase regularly either weekly or monthly irrespective of the price of Bitcoin and HODL for long.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 142
October 28, 2024, 05:49:07 PM
This DCA method is most important for them, because if he deposits a small amount of bitcoins every week and saves it for a long time, it is possible to save the most money in a lump sum or portfolio. Or you should note that this DCA method is not only limited to new and poor investors, it is all people who are rich and both investors can be successful using this method. And the wallet of the person depositing bitcoins must be strong and the key is most important to keep safe.
I absolutely agree with you on how convenient practicing the DCA strategy is. No one can predict the market value correctly whether in the short term or long term. To everyone who thinks Bitcoin is a good long-term investment then adopting DCA as the most preferred strategy is a good idea. Is DCA important? Yes, to new and old investors, DCA is important in several ways;

1. It's a way of saving and investing at once. Instead of saving a certain amount of money for a long time before you start investing. You can invest that amount you would save every week or month directly into your Bitcoin investment.

2. It's more about psychological and emotional comfort. Investing at your pace and what you can afford.

3. Reducing the risk of volatility and other market conditions and eliminating the idea of always timing the market.

I think this is enough for now, but it's more efficient for investors.
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