Topic: Buying BTC anonymously (Read 483 times)

But if you do big purchases, I'm afraid they'll ask KYC for you then. That was DaveF saying, it was better to make $1000 than $20,000 as this certainly gives a way to show your identity. If I were into hiding my personal information, I'll use Non-KYC exchanges with a little amount of purchases only. Plus, using mixing services is always the best option to absolutely makes become untraceable.

No, we should have to keep/hold our coins in our controlled wallets, not from exchanges if we wanted security and anonymity.

I agree with this statement.

The process that you follow OP is definitely tedious as you can skip some steps which are unnecessarily convenient. As what Bitmaxz had mentioned, purchasing BTC from your local exchange (though some require KYC documents) and using a mixer can easily acknowledge and follow the anonymity factor that you are hoping for. Another tip of advice, avoid putting your BTCs in an exchange if you plan on long-term HODLing. I suggest purchasing a hardware wallet to store your BTCs safely and securely.

By using this scheme, you will pay an exchange commission for each trade operation. By using this scheme, you will pay an exchange commission for each trade operation.

The best anonymous currency is cash. None of the banknotes are specifically tied to an individual. During the day, the same banknote can change many owners and no one can say where that banknote was and where it will be in the next moment. No one is able to trace the movement of cash and therefore, cash will gradually be eliminated. Until that happens, you can use it and trade cash for BTC. How and where to do it? Pay attention to the signatures of some high-ranking forum members. 

Alternatively, you can use exchangers, but you can guess about security yourself. And what's the problem then? Taxes?

Yes. Find somebody with Bitcoin in real life. Offer to pay them cash for it. Done deal basically. Or you could find somebody on peer to peer. I believe that website is still up and going. Lastly, you could facilitate a deal on here. More risky, but somebody will probably send you funds if you e-transfer them.

^ Never engage on a centralized entity if you really want to have BTC anonymously, from the start OP buy XMR in centralized exchange which is that part could be his mistake, just buy it in decentralized exchange. The problem is the transaction fee in exchange I don't know how much but for sure it will harm your wallet. Using a BTC mixer is not having good privacy?
I thought that is enough to hide your privacy upon buying BTC or buying on decentralized exchange is enough to be anonymous.

Alternatively, buy XMR (on an exchange with or without KYC) and use Atomic Swaps to exchange/swap XMR for Bitcoin. By doing this at least two times you can also disguise the origin of your Bitcoins very well. However, you should use decentralized exchanges with atomic swap, which have favorable transaction fees.

LBC requires KYC and so is a very poor choice.

There are a thousand reasons to want anonymity that having nothing to do with evading the law.

There is no way you can think you are private or anonymous simply because x amount of time has passed since you compromised your privacy. You have no idea what kind of records the person you are buying from keeps, how good their security is, who else might have access to the details you send them, if they have been intercepted, how they are stored, who else might have looked inside your package, the list is endless.

buying bitcoins anonymously can cost a lot of transaction fees and it's too wasteful to get bitcoins and cause a lot of transactions that can cause hackers to run. it is better to buy bitcoin directly in a trusted and safe market. as long as you can get bitcoins safely and quickly why do you have to be complicated so that the cost of the underlying asset can be reduced every time you transact.

It is big can be said biggest risk ever. Buying BTC anonymously can give you a big lost. there are only some chances that BTC will give you profit. If anyone wanna buy BTC he must have all knowledge about Crypto and bitcoin.

If you are ultimately pursuing the goal of making your bitcoin savings legitimate, then you will have to sacrifice something, (after all, you need anonymity so that you are not pursued by the law at the moment, right?) In the end, each of us gives the examples that he projects onto himself. 

In addition, you yourself know that there are trusted persons on the forum who earn money by acting as intermediaries, and after a year or more no one will remember your name because thousands of parcels pass through the hands of such people.

Last but not least ... if you are patient enough, you can easily buy an uncleaned coin with little or no additional surcharge.

Local bitcoins would be your best way to buy directly from a seller paying whit cash and whit out traces.

That seems inferior to many of the options discussed above if anonymity is your aim, since you are going to have to hand over a shipping address to the seller. You could of course ship to a PO Box or similar without your name attached, but if you don't already have one of those then there is an additional cost as well as time and effort required to set one up, and it might be impossible to ship to an anonymous PO Box internationally. Most of these coins also sell for higher than the value of the bitcoin contained within, so again, you'll be paying an additional cost.

How about buying some unpeeled collectible coins here on the forum?

Many sellers accept payment not only in BTC, so you will not have any problems with payment. Well, this option is only suitable for long-term purposes, because if you plan to purchase some bitcoins and spend them six months later, it is better to use a mixer. But if you are still patient, and in your country someday Bitcoin will become a legal tender, then you can easily add the purchased coins to the electronic tax return in the future (if you are one of those who pay taxes).

Those UTXOs will be anonymous, but the problem is, if you want to deposit back to exchanges or to services that monitors the mixers, they would know that your UTXOs went through a mixer. I believe there should be another layer added on top of the mixer.

honestly i dont know why you need to buy bitcoin anonymously? i think there are many service on the internet that makes your transaction (the owner) of bitcoin are vanish, just use it, beside you use your method that has many step to do it, and i read in the post section, some people suggest you to buy it on localcryptos.com, i think it can be the better alternative than your methods

If we talk about buying BTC anonymously and storing it, then you probably need to start from the very beginning, namely for what funds are you going to buy BTC? If we take into account your scheme of actions, then it is unlikely that it will be 100% anonymous, which, in principle, applies to any schemes. If someone wants to track the movement of funds for the purchase of BTC, then probably even with great effort he will be able to do it, the other question is, why do this? Why would anyone know that you bought BTC and are holding it? All this hype around anonymity, you just need to give BTC and other cryptocurrencies value, but I do not think that the system or the tax system monitors your funds, in any case, until your amount becomes too large, then they will probably be interested and, if they want to, can find out whose funds it is. I don’t think that in our time there are 100% completely anonymous systems, and if they exist, then only at the level of security and intelligence services, but not in the financial system.

That would not be anonymous anymore if you will use an exchange and you comply with the KYC unless you will fake your information with some fake ID just to pass the basic requirement of an exchange. My understanding of KYC is that no matter how they will trace the address, they can't find any trace to link to a person's identity.

Should the community encourage each other to use the Lightning network as a "mixer" to increase Bitcoin's anon-set? I believe the more Lightning scales/grows, the more liquidity in channels, then more cheaper transactions, THEN a larger anon-set.

Understand that BTC transactions are pseudo-anonymous and the TOR used will only hide your IP address. You need something more than just using TOR after withdrawing the BTC to the wallet connected with TOR and as advised by Theymos in a situation when privacy is a top priority it is better to make use of the Bitcoin tumbler site and privacy wallet.

Honestly, this sounds too complicated to me, but maybe it's a good idea, I don't know. In my country, Bitcoin is quite popular, and there are local places where you can buy or sell BTC for fiat without providing ID or any personal information, as far as I know. If I wanted to make an anonymous purchase, I'd probably do it this way, by going to a place like this, but, of course, with a good reputation. You might want to inquire about the situation in your country, and perhaps there's a similar option there as well. Oh, and I think some BTC ATMs allow purchasing Bitcoin for fiat, and up to a certain sum you don't need to provide an ID. They might ask for other information, like as an email address or a phone number, but these might also be easy to anonymize (although I guess this also depends on your country).

Great write up.

However, it seems that even on the announcement thread you linked to back in 2013, they already talk about requiring photo identification "at their discretion", and funds being locked on the platform if the user does not comply. This same wording is repeated under the "Buyer Terms" of their Terms of Service. The problem with wording like this is that it means users can at any time arbitrarily have their accounts locked and their funds seized, with demands being made for KYC data. If the user does not comply, then they forfeit their coins.

If you want to trade peer to peer, then I would only ever recommend doing it on a platform which does not require KYC from any of its users. If you trade on a platform which requires KYC for some of its users, then it is only a matter of time before you are included in that cohort, whether you planned to or not.

For anonymity, BISQ is a good alternative, but there are other centralized alternatives you can use that accept Monero. Less slippage than BISQ, but fees might be higher than KYC-exchanges.

An example, https://stealthex.io/

An idea posted by cAPSLOCK in how to do it without buying Monero, by utilizing the Lightning Network, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.58572502

i think it way much simplier if you buy trough over the counter or peer 2 peer Cash only. or yes buy on bitcoin on non kyc exchange and mixing it no need transfer it to monero first using Segwit bech 32 can save u fee of bitcoin

your steps are too complicated, if there is an exchange that is KYC and safe why are you trying to be anonymous.. what are you hiding guys?

buy on binance and store in hardware wallets like nano ledger or safepal it's safe, and no one knows about it.

Up until a few moments ago I couldn't vouch for it as I also hadn't heard about it before (and never used it). However, I've been digging this service for the past hours and I've found some interesting information. In their website footer[1] they have a link that states "Read about us on the BitcoinTalk Forums". This spiked my curiosity and if you click on that link you're taken to this thread[2] by user BuyBitcoin.US[3] - registered on 14th of July 2013 and last seen active around 2018. The user started the service quite early - 2013 - and with a different name - ButBitcoin.US - and he wanted to ensure that he was looking for legit deals that he even opened up a thread[4] where he would pay to reputable members - or mods - to verify his identity. He originally stated that the service was operated by 724Leads LLC but if you look up on it you'll find that the company is now dead[5]. You'll also see that the thread was edited around 7th February 2014, where I believe the name changed to the current one (bitquick.co). The service even hosted a charity event right here[6].

Gotta said, up until to 2016ish, as I was reading the thread I myself would have used the service - it seemed that the support was quick, and the system was working like it should. On March 14th 2016 they were hacked as per this quote:
This would be the ideal situation considering OP objective - Just find a couple of reliable sellers that are willing to accept cash (I always end up referring cash in hand because it looks the most anonymous to me) - and I'm sure that in long term they will be able to offer better rates as long as the relationship between buyer-seller flourishes. Other than that, even bank transfers will eventually giveaway some sort of information to (unknown) entities in the long term...

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[1]https://www.bitquick.co/
[2]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annbitquickco-fastest-method-on-the-market-of-converting-fiat-btc-262082
[3]https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/buybitcoinus-140154
[4]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/owner-of-buybitcoinus-looking-to-verify-identity-with-hero-members-or-mods-263246
[5]https://ohio-corp.com/co/724leads-llc
[6]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3496231
[7]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14277121
[8]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2016-03-19bitcoin-trading-platform-shuts-down-for-2-4-weeks-following-cyber-at-1404934
[9]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-over-120-bitcoin-via-bitquickco-cash-deposit-escrow-banks-credit-union-1848552
[10]https://bittrust.org/bitquickco
[11]https://twitter.com/AthenaBitcoin
[12]https://twitter.com/EGravengaard
[13]https://athenabitcoin.com
[14]https://athenabitcoin.com/coming-soon/
[15]https://www.bitquick.co/terms-of-service

I've never heard of this service before. Can you vouch for it? My concern with using any service which has KYC/AML procedures at a certain price point or after certain conditions is that they can (and often do) unexpectedly expand those requirements to other users or all users with no warning. I'd rather just stick to somewhere like Bisq or LocalCryptos which has no KYC requirements ever.

This is certainly true to begin with, but once you have found a couple of other trustworthy individuals you are trading regularly with, then you can often negotiate better rates, which they are usually happy to offer as well once you become trusted to them. Once you factor in the astronomical withdrawal fees that many exchanges charge, you can often end up getting better rates peer to peer.

Whether or not this is a good idea depends on how you set up the VPN to interact with Tor. You can completely negate all the benefits Tor brings by using an additional VPN incorrectly. If you don't know what you are doing, better to just use Tor alone.

Depends on how secure you want to act. For example, the best I can suggest is to use the tails os and make sure about your privacy on your own system you can do more research about this os, then you can use the tor browser with a VPN which is only crated for yourself and you are controlling the sever and all the packets are encrypted, then you can use the tor browser and buy monero on decentralized exchanges and if you prefer to hold bitcoin you can exchange it to bitcoin on some decentralized exchange, here using mixer can increase your privacy even more.

Thank you for that thread, I wasn't aware of it (its seems like every day I find a *very* informative thread buried in the pile of activity that this forum generates, which makes me think what else could be out there). I think that the "tutorial" that was given by theymos - #2 - ends up being the method pointed out by the OP but, as we all agree, there's a big hole in OP's plot right in the beginning since he's planning on buying BTC on a centralized exchange. After that he/she can tumble his coins in any way he wants, the exchange will still know that, at some point in time, he got BTC. To expand the possibilities available I was thinking in referring this[1] service to OP since it allows payment to be done directly to a bank account, but there are still two problems:

• He would be limited to 400 $. Greater amounts will lead to KTC procedures;
• According to their ToS[2] the company is " (...) a registered MSB (Registration 31000069357653) and comply with various KYC/AML procedures.". Fun fact, if you click on the "MSB" word, the page will lead you to a blank page[3]

If you're really looking forward for true anonymity regarding this purchase OP, then I don't think you'll find a better solution than finding a seller that's willing to accept psychical cash in exchange for BTC (or a BTC ATM that accepts cash directly). Assuming you're from the United States you can find many sellers that accept cash either on localcryptos[4] or even localcoinswap[5]. Do realize that as the anonymity level increases, so will the fees that you'll have to pay in order to get your BTC.

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[1]https://www.bitquick.co/
[2]https://www.bitquick.co/terms-of-service
[3]https://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/
[4]https://localcryptos.com/Bitcoin/United_States/Cash
[5]https://localcoinswap.com/buy/bitcoin/united-states/cash-in-person

Using Monero is a good choice if privacy is your goal. You can use it to effectively "mix" BTC by swapping/trading it for Monero, moving the Monero around in to a number of different addresses over as long a period of time as possible, and then swapping/trading different amounts of Monero back to BTC using a different platform to your original transaction, over as many different trades and as long a period of time as possible. There's a thread you might in interested in here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-decent-mixing-methods-5146241

None of that really helps OP, however, since it assume you already own BTC and does not help you acquire BTC anonymously. As with all mixing methods, you can hide the final destination of your BTC, but if you have bought on a centralized exchange, then they still know how much BTC you own.

From time to time this question appears, but I have to say that I hadn't seen a solution such as yours - at least not as recent as my activity here (early this year). Whenever this kind of question appears, I have been mentioning this reply[1] of mine on another thread:
Do note that some payment methods on Bisq eventually will expose some information about you to the seller (albeit not as huge as the information that exchanges keep). For example, if you use Revolut the seller will be able to see your username[2], and if you use TransferWise the seller will see your e-mail[3]. If you do end up using Bisq make sure you see which kind of information will be shared, depending on the method you choose.

I applause whenever I see someone whose privacy is being given a highlight in their life. In times where the concept of "privacy" seems to be at the bottom of Human conscience - at least in my group friends whose worries is to, despite my warnings, publish their life/sell their data to Facebook/WhatsApp/Instagram - it's always nice to see that at least most users here do worry about what entities hold their data. Your idea to get BTC for sure is complex, but I do wonder how many fees (both from services + transaction fees) would be lost in all those transactions.

If you're still considering other options, have a look on the previous linked shared by other members, plus the ones I mentioned. If you have any doubts come back here and I'm sure someone will be here to answer them.

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[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.58312791
[2]https://bisq.wiki/Revolut
[3]https://bisq.wiki/TransferWise

Yes it's correct, an easier option could be using a mixer straightaway, something like Chipmixer can easily help you remove the traces of your funds which means once you Buy BTC in a kyc exchange you then transfer your holdings to a mixer and then to a private key wallet and your funds will be safe. But yes in both the cases you have left the trail when you bought the funds so authorities eventually know what you started with.

The other questions are how much time & effort do you want to put into being anonymous and how much extra you are will to pay and how anonymous do you want to be.

If you want quick and simple it's probably going to cost you more. i.e. finding an ATM that has a high enough non KYC limit to make the transaction you want to do. BUT those ATMs are usually seling 10% or more above preev / coinbase price.

Do you want to put the time and effort in to drive to a major city if you are not near one to to a F2F transaction vs. someone closer who may have worse rates since your choices are more limited.

Do you want to be anonymous from the government and all it's probing, or do you just not want friends / family / jobs / banks to know?

And so on....

-Dave

Why don't you use your real name when posting on this forum? Why don't you post your bank statement on Facebook? Why don't you publish every email you receive on Twitter? Why don't you share your browsing history with your friends, family, and employer?

There are a thousand reasons that everyone, you included, protects their privacy or wants anonymity in some part of their life every single day. Privacy when it comes to your finances is no different. In fact, the reverse question is more pertinent. Why would you want anyone in the world to be able to stick their nose in to your financial history and all your transactions?

Of course, I apologize for meddling in other matters. But why don't you just buy bitcoin? Why are you worried about anonymity?

If you use a platform such as Bisq or LocalCryptos, then you will deposit the crypto in question to a non-custodial escrow before meeting your trading partner, so you are not carrying the crypto in a hot wallet. Similarly, you could always meet at a bank (or even an ATM depending on your country's daily ATM limits) and take cash out immediately prior to the trade. I've done this before, and it also removes the risk of counterfeit cash being used.

There is nothing anonymous about using a centralized exchange. Sure, if you pass your coins through ChipMixer then the exchange will not be able to see where they end up, what you spend them on, who you send them to, etc., but they will still have a complete record of every single satoshi you have bought, when you bought it, how much you paid for it, and when you withdrew it, and they will link all that against your real name and identity and share it with who knows how many third parties or government agencies.

Why not buy Bitcoin on CEX then withdraw it to a Bitcoin mixer like Chipmixer to convert it to untraced Bitcoin before you receive it on your hardware or software wallet. That way you will remove the trace to your coin and you are accumulating Bitcoin anonymously since on your method, You still use CEX for buying XMR and just use multiple private transaction just to bought Bitcoin anonymously while you can do it with a easy short step using mixer.

I am wondering why too a lengthy process? You can use peer-to-peer exchange where doesn't require KYC. And most likely even you can buy from the forum currency exchange section and mix it through a reputed mixer. So your address will remain anonymous and can hold as you want. Storing Bitcoin into a hardware wallet would be great, it's secure and anonymous as well.

You will lose too many fees if you follow the process you described. Rather than you might look local exchange and mix it.

I agree, but the problem is finding a trusted person, especially when it comes to larger amounts - no one should walk with thousands of $ in their pocket, and also not have a larger amount of BTC in some hot wallet on a smartphone. If there is an option for crypto ATM, perhaps it could be considered, although in that case a fee of at least 5% or more should be expected.

Of course, only if the ATM does not require the user to be verified in any other way than SMS - and this anonymity can be achieved if we do not use a number associated with our real identity.

Paxful is good to use but it requires KYC.

To buy Bitcoin anonymously, the best are Bisq exchange or hodlhodl but volume on Bisq is very low. A better volume on hodlhodl exchange.

Help: A list of LocalBitcoin alternatives (P2P marketplaces)

That sounds like a lot of leg work and risk. What about a mixer? What about finding somebody that wants to buy or sell IRL and can facilitate a trade? What about P2P markets? There are more options than you present, and I would think them all through carefully before proceeding.

Firstly, use Tor (or maybe Tor over VPN if you know what you are doing) and not a VPN on its own if you are looking for real privacy.

Secondly, I would never do anything on a KYC exchange if you want to be anonymous. Even if it is buying Monero, that exchange then knows your real name, address, and other information, knows your payment information, and knows how much Monero you bought and when. They might not be able to track what you do with your Monero, but they can still pass your details on to a variety of third parties.

I hope this is a typo and you meant to say to "buy Bitcoin directly from any non-KYC exchange". Buying from a KYC exchange, even if you then mix your coins, is bad for your privacy.

The two exchanges you gave might be peer to peer, but they both require KYC and are therefore bad choices.

Here is a better list of non-KYC exchanges you should check out: https://kycnot.me/

The problem with your method is finding that "non-KYC exchange" because they are hard to come by and those that exist are risky to use because they either enforce KYC in a hidden way or they are shady!
Your approach will also cost a lot in fees and other costs such as the fact that sometimes buyers of your coins in private will buy it at a much lower price (like if you want to sell XMR to BTC).

I think buying with cash and from individuals is more private and will cost less. Then you an run the coins through a mixer. Or as it was mentioned earlier just buy bitcoin as first step instead of XMR and run that through a mixer.

Pretty much this. The only reason I would take OP's approach if I'm worried that a local exchange would ban me from using their exchange because they found out that my coins are coinjoined/mixed. But beyond that, coinjoins/mixers it is.

You start it wrong by buying Monero on a KYC exchanges, the exchanges already know who're you and how much you buy Monero on their exchanges. If you want to do such anonymously what you need to do is stay away from any centralized entity.

Instead to pay multiple unimportant fees, better to use mixer and DEX only.

Anyway VPN isn't recommended, because many VPN has bad privacy and it's only temporary masking.

I agree with DaveF and Bitmaxz,

For using P2P transactions for buying Bitcoin, there are already a lot of ways these days depending on your location, you can use;
https://paxful.com/buy-bitcoin
https://localbitcoins.com/
And there are some people who are selling on different groups that can be found on social media, like Facebook (beware of scammers).

Another thing is you can use some network and just bridge them to your Bitcoin wallet, as there is a lot of wrapped Bitcoin (wBTC) on different chains these days, like Ethereum, Solana, BSC, etc.
Just expect some huge transaction fees here.

Or use cash a something like localcryptos.com
There are other ones too that allow for F2F transactions, depending on where you are.
Also the amounts matter, $1000 is a lot easier then $20000.
Location matters too, it's easier to find traders in a big city then more rural areas.

-Dave

Why not buy Bitcoin directly to any KYC exchange and use a mixer instead?

Your process is too long so buying bitcoin directly would be the best option than buying XMR to BTC.

There are lots of Bitcoin mixers or tumblers you can try Wasabi it has a feature to mix them or use Chipmixer.

If you do some research and find the most common value sent over the xmr network in a transaction then you might get somewhere.

The issue will be that someone might notice $100 being bought and moved twice and then exist as $100-fees in your bitcoin wallet.

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?