Buying BTC from KYC exchange | Bitcointalksearch.org

dzonikg28

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 26, 2021, 07:42:28 AM

Quote from: mk4 on July 24, 2021, 10:06:51 PM

The answer to your question will depend on how security/privacy paranoid you ere.

Fortunately, it's not the end of the world for you, and all you can do right now is to not further the damage. Use peer-to-peer no-KYC exchanges like ~~Bysk~~Bisq[1], HodlHodl[2], and LocalCryptos[3]. And if you want to get a step further, probably contact the exchange you used and try to get your account(and data) deleted.

The P2P platform that I am using right now has the option to delete the user account. But I am not sure whether all the data is deleted or not. Because the trust factor comes in to play here. There is no guarantee that they will purge all the user data, even if the account holder opts for that. There may be legal issues that surface later, and some of the exchanges would retain at least some information related to the users. The platform also claims that the communication between the buyer and seller is not visible to them, unless any of the parties opt for dispute resolution. If that is the case, then we don't have anything to worry. But once again, are they saying the truth and can we trust them?

They most likely do retain some data unless they themselves operate from some kind of underground corporate construct. It is similar to the VPN providers. I remember when a VPN provider claimed to not forward data to authorities, but it turned out that they were subpoenaed and handed out user data regardless. It may be true, but I would expect the worst using those platforms. Do you have to undergo KYC on that platform? I guess no? Because then it doesn't matter whether or not they delete it, you just could use false data. If they demand KYC, I would assume they also store some of the data without your consent.

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Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 03:35:04 AM

Another one: "Spain’s government has reportedly approved a bill that requires cryptocurrency owners to disclose their crypto holdings..."

And here is the second news: https://english.elpais.com/spain/2021-07-06/spain-drafts-bill-allowing-state-to-mobilize-all-adults-in-times-of-crisis.html

Quote

The reform [...] states that authorities can temporarily requisition all types of assets, take over or temporarily occupy those that are needed and suspend all activity. Citizens who are economically harmed by these actions have the right to compensation, according to the document. In its preliminary version, the bill does not include compensation for people whose services are required by the state.

I don't know, can this really be a coincidence? I am not saying you should break a law and hide your assets, but you should always keep in mind that the government potentially can and most probably will force you to hand over your bitcoin holdings if there is a situation they call a "crisis". If they suddenly start to consider your crypto holdings a threat to the financial stability of the country, you are in trouble despite your being a good citizen.

Quantum907

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Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

I think this is a good idea, even though crypto is anonymous but I think KYC is a step forward to make consumer data safe in case the exchange has a problem such as a hack or malware attack.

Poker Player

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 27, 2021, 03:59:47 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 03:35:04 AM

The legislation of several countries obliges you to declare the mere possession of cryptocurrencies.

Those laws are still being debated, as far as I can tell. No (reasonable) country can punish you for holding bitcoin you didn't declare for 10 years when they are only just making it mandatory to declare it now.

Yes, normally in democratic countries you cannot be punished with retroactive laws. What could happen is that today the law is approved and from today you have to declare what you have, even if you bought it years ago. If you made a single purchase and you can justify it, fine. But if you were trading in several exchanges, one of them has already disappeared, and you also have gone through mixers, declaring that you have $200K (or $2M) of origin that you cannot justify will lead to an interrogation by the authorities at the very least.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 27, 2021, 03:59:47 AM

Still, I assume they will want a simple statement of "I own 1 BTC", as opposed to wanting you to report individual wallets or addresses, given that lots of people holding their coins on custodial exchanges and wallets and so wouldn't be able to provide such information. So there is a still a significant privacy improvement from government surveillance (not to mention surveillance by third parties) by using non-KYC peer to peer trading over centralized exchanges.

Yes, more precisely, they want a statement of "I own 1 BTC which as of 12/31 of last year was equivalent to x dollars or euros or the currency in question. As there is no market close as in the stock market, it would be at 23:59:59."

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 27, 2021, 03:59:47 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 03:35:04 AM

Even if they don't have an explicit law requiring citizens to disclose their Bitcoin holdings, wealth tax does not usually exceed $1M by much. So you should declare your holdings when you exceed that figure.

So how does that work in practice? You take the average value of bitcoin over the year? Or you take the spot value of bitcoin at the end of year?

The spot value of bitcoin on December 31 of that year. The same applies to shares.

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Quote from: asyakashi on July 24, 2021, 10:20:30 PM

KYC exchanges are exchanges that guarantee the safety of their users, there may be some exchanges that do not use KYC, but as such these exchanges are less secure, and look un professional, I really like KYC exchanges because they are of good quality and professional.

Even the Biggest exchange like binance requires KYC though there is a certain amount to put this up and not in small withdrawals.
in which you are correct that KYC exchange will make you safety in all of your withdrawals and deposits more than those exchange that requires nothing .
But of course you can also use Mixers if you wanna Hide your identity but make sure to use reputable because there are tons of scam mixers that operates though many of them are already closed now.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 03:35:04 AM

The legislation of several countries obliges you to declare the mere possession of cryptocurrencies.

Those laws are still being debated, as far as I can tell. No (reasonable) country can punish you for holding bitcoin you didn't declare for 10 years when they are only just making it mandatory to declare it now.

Still, I assume they will want a simple statement of "I own 1 BTC", as opposed to wanting you to report individual wallets or addresses, given that lots of people holding their coins on custodial exchanges and wallets and so wouldn't be able to provide such information. So there is a still a significant privacy improvement from government surveillance (not to mention surveillance by third parties) by using non-KYC peer to peer trading over centralized exchanges.

Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 03:35:04 AM

Even if they don't have an explicit law requiring citizens to disclose their Bitcoin holdings, wealth tax does not usually exceed $1M by much. So you should declare your holdings when you exceed that figure.

So how does that work in practice? You take the average value of bitcoin over the year? Or you take the spot value of bitcoin at the end of year?

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 27, 2021, 03:17:59 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 12:42:22 AM

Even if you want to declare it now, in many jurisdictions you have already committed a tax crime, so you are in big trouble if you declare it.

Which jurisdictions require you to pay tax simply upon on acquiring bitcoin? Most that I see discussed on these forums only require tax to be paid when gains are realized, so when your bitcoin is sold, exchanged, spent, etc. Certainly that is the case in the US.

The legislation of several countries obliges you to declare the mere possession of cryptocurrencies. The first one I found by googling is Russia, but there are some in other European countries as well: "The bill requires that citizens, individuals, and legal entities operating in the Russian Federation declare their cryptocurrency holdings... "

Another one: "Spain’s government has reportedly approved a bill that requires cryptocurrency owners to disclose their crypto holdings..."

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 27, 2021, 03:17:59 AM

Even if I bought 10,000 BTC 10+ years ago for a dollar, I owe no tax on my now ~$400 million stack (nor do I even need to declare it) until I start to offload that bitcoin.

In countries with wealth tax, you should have declared you holdings years ago. Even if they don't have an explicit law requiring citizens to disclose their Bitcoin holdings, wealth tax does not usually exceed $1M by much. So you should declare your holdings when you exceed that figure. Others require you to disclose any asset you have.

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Quote from: lalabotax on July 26, 2021, 03:24:01 PM

So, no crypto exchange in the world can guarantee their user data? And what I ever heard about their promise to keep KYC data safety is fake only?

There is a famous quote from a famous professor of computer science which goes like this:

Quote from: lalabotax on July 26, 2021, 03:24:01 PM

If it is true, even Binance cannot guarantee our data? I am starting to be a bit afraid about my KYC data on Binance.

Binance have been hacked for thousands of users' worth of KYC data in the past, so they absolutely can't guarantee anything: https://thehackernews.com/2019/08/binance-kyc-data-leak.html

Quote from: Poker Player on July 27, 2021, 12:42:22 AM

Even if you want to declare it now, in many jurisdictions you have already committed a tax crime, so you are in big trouble if you declare it.

Which jurisdictions require you to pay tax simply upon on acquiring bitcoin? Most that I see discussed on these forums only require tax to be paid when gains are realized, so when your bitcoin is sold, exchanged, spent, etc. Certainly that is the case in the US. Even if I bought 10,000 BTC 10+ years ago for a dollar, I owe no tax on my now ~$400 million stack (nor do I even need to declare it) until I start to offload that bitcoin.

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Quote from: 19Nov16 on July 26, 2021, 11:45:30 PM

Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

I think KYC is a good thing, so I always do KYC on every exchange, crypto is an asset and without KYC it will be difficult to recover assets if a problem occurs, I'm sure an exchange that implements KYC will not sell our data unless it gets hacked.

But we need to select the recommended exchange to do KYC and not doing KYC in all exchanges.
That will be risky because we do not know what will happen to us if we are doing KYC in exchanges that will not have reputations.
But that will be back to personal because when we can feel comfortable to trade in one or two exchanges, we can doing KYC without any hesitations and will not have a problem by sending our document to them.
If someone does not feel comfortable sending the document to the exchange, he can search for the exchange that does not need KYC to reduce his risk of getting scam by the exchange.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 26, 2021, 02:53:37 PM

-snip

I generally agree with you, but we are talking about buying and selling BTC on decentralized exchanges and not declaring them to the tax authorities? I guess that would be the logical thing to do.

The problem I see with that is how you justify that you have large amounts of money tomorrow.

If you have $2K in Bitcoin, you can spend it with gift cards or go to a Bitcoin ATM that doesn't require ID and exchange it for cash.

But if you bought a certain amount on a decentralized exchange in the previous cycle, didn't declare it and today you have $200K you have a problem. Even if you want to declare it now, in many jurisdictions you have already committed a tax crime, so you are in big trouble if you declare it. If you don't declare it, you will have to spend the money $200 at a time or exchange it for fiat at ATMs little by little, but you won't be able to buy a house or a car with it.

19Nov16

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Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

I think KYC is a good thing, so I always do KYC on every exchange, crypto is an asset and without KYC it will be difficult to recover assets if a problem occurs, I'm sure an exchange that implements KYC will not sell our data unless it gets hacked.

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Quote from: lalabotax on July 26, 2021, 03:24:01 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 26, 2021, 03:53:43 AM

No exchange can guarantee security, and if they say that, then they are either stupid or deliberately trying to deceive you.

So, no crypto exchange in the world can guarantee their user data? And what I ever heard about their promise to keep KYC data safety is fake only?
If it is true, even Binance cannot guarantee our data? I am starting to be a bit afraid about my KYC data on Binance. I never imagine that even Binance can risk our data. This probably becomes a big problem if one day all centralized exchanges are investigated because of risking people's data around the world.

Yes, there's no guarantee that exchange can give full security of our data and avoid possible data breaches. A big exchange might also have data breaches even though big companies like Microsoft and Wattpad have experienced a disclosed data breach and even the big exchange like Binance was experienced before a data KYC breacH, AFAIK, that was way back in 2019.

However, if you really have paranoid feelings about your personal information that shouldn't expose and must your personal information private, find a decentralized exchange that is better for p2p transactions.

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Quote from: Mahanton on July 26, 2021, 02:59:53 PM

Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

KYC is common.The best thing is p2p but somewhat risky.

Exchange platforms are regulated and its expected that they would really be having this kind of system when buying up directly BTC on them.

All exchanges required to do kyc (Know your customers) but kyc not a good sign of secured. It's should have different verification systems. But p2p always risky and it's should need good deal esrcow.

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Quote from: DrearyUrbanite on July 26, 2021, 06:36:06 PM

Quote from: Shasha80 on July 25, 2021, 06:57:52 AM

Quote from: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 25, 2021, 06:23:21 AM

for me personally it's okay to buy crypto on the KYC exchange because now it seems that there is still the only safest way to get crypto without getting scam ( if you choose trusted exchange ) and also it depends on where you live too. if in my country there is an e-commerce that sells bitcoin assets as well. This does not require KYC but is also safe because our money is held by the e-commerce.

I also prefer to use KYC exchanges to buy Bitcoins, because that's probably the safest way I can think of for now. Although the risk is that we must be
willing to lose our privacy, because we have to submit our personal data to these exchanges. Therefore, it is better if we finally decide to use KYC exchanges
to buy Bitcoin, choose one that has a good reputation.I've been using KYC exchanges in my country for 5 years, and luckily I haven't had any bad experiences.

I think there are a couple of possibilities to buy Bitcoin safely apart from exchanges that demand KYC. First of all there are exchanges, reputable exchanges that don't ask for KYC and then you also have a couple of swapping services that you can trust as far as I know.

If you are dealing with fiat and buy bitcoin on exchange I think majority will ask KYC for their users so for this a proper selection on choosing top tier exchange is really good here since selecting those exchange who offer something like who doesn't require KYC is so shady to me. If They don't like KYC better to do P2p and drag some escrow on the deal to make the transaction smoothly.

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Quote from: Shasha80 on July 25, 2021, 06:57:52 AM

Quote from: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 25, 2021, 06:23:21 AM

for me personally it's okay to buy crypto on the KYC exchange because now it seems that there is still the only safest way to get crypto without getting scam ( if you choose trusted exchange ) and also it depends on where you live too. if in my country there is an e-commerce that sells bitcoin assets as well. This does not require KYC but is also safe because our money is held by the e-commerce.

I also prefer to use KYC exchanges to buy Bitcoins, because that's probably the safest way I can think of for now. Although the risk is that we must be
willing to lose our privacy, because we have to submit our personal data to these exchanges. Therefore, it is better if we finally decide to use KYC exchanges
to buy Bitcoin, choose one that has a good reputation.I've been using KYC exchanges in my country for 5 years, and luckily I haven't had any bad experiences.

I think there are a couple of possibilities to buy Bitcoin safely apart from exchanges that demand KYC. First of all there are exchanges, reputable exchanges that don't ask for KYC and then you also have a couple of swapping services that you can trust as far as I know. I think Shapeshift also offers swaps to BTC for cash if I am not mistaken and I think you don't have to provide KYC.

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Quote from: Mahanton on July 26, 2021, 02:59:53 PM

Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

KYC is common.The best thing is p2p but somewhat risky.

Exchange platforms are regulated and its expected that they would really be having this kind of system when buying up directly BTC on them.

Even legit exchanges asking KYC can't fully guarantee that we are safe and our personal details won't fall into the other hands as they are also prone to hacking leading to such scenarios. But I think, as we are started to join crypto, using centralized and decentralize platforms, we are also aware of the consequences we might have in the future. However, we are not praying for that and that is why we still risky our life in here and continue. if we are too afraid about this, it is simply not to try being in crypto as it is possible that years from now KYC is mandatory and we have no escape anymore.

BrianH

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Quote from: lalabotax on July 26, 2021, 03:24:01 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 26, 2021, 03:53:43 AM

No exchange can guarantee security, and if they say that, then they are either stupid or deliberately trying to deceive you.

If it is true, even Binance cannot guarantee our data? I am starting to be a bit afraid about my KYC data on Binance. I never imagine that even Binance can risk our data. T

Binance was hacked in 2019. So no, your data is not safe there.

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on July 26, 2021, 03:33:14 PM

Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

I think you are talking about Bisq and i tried using them in the past but the problem was liquidity as all the users are behind centralized exchanges it is hard to find the liquidity to make the trade, i have not used them in a very long time and if you already made a transaction i would like to hear your reviews and experience on using them for the first time. Right now with DEX a major hype we might see a change in the trend of people using centralized exchange to completely decentralized markets.

Bisq does not use centralized exchanges. It operates as a P2P network. You send the user a bank transaction, money order. gift card or some other digital currency provider (Revolut, etc.) and they send you BTC. Both the buyer and seller have to place a deposit that is locked in a multisignature wallet. The buyer's full BTC amount is also locked. If anything goes wrong, a moderator ensures you get your money back and you may also get a portion of that person's deposit. Everything uses TOR so it is also relatively anonymous.

Once you learn how to use it, it works fairly well. The more people that use it, the better the liquidity. It also provides buyer/seller activity so you get real time data of current demand for Bitcoin. This gives you some advance insight into what the market is going to do (hint: no one is buying BTC right now).

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Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

I think you are talking about Bisq and i tried using them in the past but the problem was liquidity as all the users are behind centralized exchanges it is hard to find the liquidity to make the trade, i have not used them in a very long time and if you already made a transaction i would like to hear your reviews and experience on using them for the first time. Right now with DEX a major hype we might see a change in the trend of people using centralized exchange to completely decentralized markets.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 26, 2021, 03:53:43 AM

No exchange can guarantee security, and if they say that, then they are either stupid or deliberately trying to deceive you.

So, no crypto exchange in the world can guarantee their user data? And what I ever heard about their promise to keep KYC data safety is fake only?
If it is true, even Binance cannot guarantee our data? I am starting to be a bit afraid about my KYC data on Binance. I never imagine that even Binance can risk our data. This probably becomes a big problem if one day all centralized exchanges are investigated because of risking people's data around the world.

Mahanton

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Quote from: brainactive on July 24, 2021, 09:51:18 PM

Up until now, I thought the only way to convert fiat to BTC is through KYC exchanges. It seems like there are alternatives such as Bysk. Did I shoot myself in the foot by purchasing through KYC exchanges?

KYC is common.The best thing is p2p but somewhat risky.

Exchange platforms are regulated and its expected that they would really be having this kind of system when buying up directly BTC on them.

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