Topic: Bye bye bitcoin - page 4. (Read 9035 times)

All fiat monies eventually fail. All of them. It's human nature... eventually TPTB succumb to the temptation to endlessly produce more money, and that's a situation that is unsustainable in the long-term. Nations can force people to use their currency... they can't force people to actually value it. Now, whether they'll fail tomorrow, or fail in 100 years is another issue.

But just like gold, Bitcoin's backing is both its monetary usefulness and its inherent utility. It allows me to send the world's first ever decentralized, pseudonymous virtual asset to anyone, anywhere, in seconds; that alone has enough power to make national governments quake and (dumbly) attack it. Yet even if it's monetary usefulness somehow disappeared, the technology itself still has numerous other uses (demonstrated in part by the proposals based on it, including Namecoin, which actually exists and works.)

I guess you mean chinese government? In US, all those money went into banks (They were not used, they were loaned out, notice the difference here). They were loaned out to run schools, build roads, provide health care, but government must payback much more than they borrowed until they hit the debt ceiling

And bitcoin could also be used to build shools, roads, and provide health care, if the construction company and hospital accept bitcoin payment and 1 bitcoin worth millions of dollars

Oh that would be funny if it wasn't so naive.

Your govt doesn't issue money.  Your central bank does which is a private cartel of banks who has been given a monopoly on issuing currency.  When they issue currency they and only they benefit.  They benefit because more issuance means more inflation but inflation is a lagging effect and so the money they issue today won't have its purchasing power degraded until after they spend it.  You on the other hand well you get your money slowly after it has filtered through many layers from the banks on downward so the prices have already adjusted.  Ever notice that you get a 3% raise (not a promotion but an annual raise) but by the time you get the raise prices have already increase 3% (or more).   You never catch up.


Governments build schools and roads and healthcare (and bombs, and engage in terrorism, and build police states, and incarecerate people) using TAX REVENUE which has absolutely nothing to do with the issuance of currency.  There are many countries which don't issue their own currency.  Belize for example defacto uses the US dollar as their national currency.  How does belize build roads?  Simple people pay taxes (often in US dollars) and the government spends those to build roads.

Governments have no money.  Governments don't build roads.  Governments collect wealth (through the us of force) from citizens in the form of taxes and pay for goods and services just like you or I do ... by spending money.

Citizen (wealth) ----> Government ----->  Road Builder

The only difference between you hiring someone to pave your driveway and the government hiring someone to pave a highway is the first involves voluntary free exchange (you give some money and the paver gives you some driveway) and the later involves the use of force (monopoly on violence).


As for no longer owning Bitcoins, well it sounds like it is a source of stress for you and life is too short for all that.  You may have made the right decision for you.   However even if you never use anything other than "national" currency you might want to do some research on what money is and how it doesn't work they way you think it does.

What country is that?  Here in the US, the government does not issue money, the Federal Reserve does.  This money does not go to the government as spendable revenue, it goes to artificially prop up markets that can't stand on their own without subsidy.  This is done to ensure that the privatly held banks remain solvent in spite of their repeated bad bets.  Markets have become casinos and bankers have to do immoral things to keep up with everyone else.

I sure hope your country really is different, but maybe you can understand my doubt about your morality argument.

When the government "issues new money" they are taking money from you and everyone else who has assets in that country (or worldwide depending on the currency).  Inflation is a stealth tax on everyone and it hits the most needy the most because they may not have the education or ability to protect themselves from it.

Charity by its nature is voluntary.  There is nothing moral about me holding a gun to your head and saying "go feed the homeless".  That is immoral and it doesn't matter if I vote for someone to hold a gun to your head telling you to "go feed the homeless" or to a Dr, "go treat the poor." 

I disagree, they are going down.

The dollar has lost a huge percentage of value over the last 42 years (let alone the last 100), and without better monetary policy that will continue for as long as the policies that cause it are in place.  Perhaps no sharp drop will occur, but both the dollar and euro will continue their slow erosion of value day-by-day, week-by-week, year-by-year.

Hey guys I just came up with this poem, and I think here is as good a place as any to post it.

First they troll you,
then they laugh at you,
then they send in the FEDs..
and then you go bankrupt.

have fun!

Yes. this is a much better answer than mine.

I didn't compare the US to Egypt. I compared armies which are made up of people.

Armies? Sooo 1940's.

Bitcoin user not affected.

@OP

Which would cause the US dollar to fluctuate in value, not disappear in my lifetime.



Yeah, you're right about the Euro. That actually may fall apart, but will make no difference in the fiat vs. crypto currency debate - it will simply be replaced by fiat national currencies if it fell apart.

Comparing the US to Egypt kind of misses the vast differences between the two. I spent some time in Cairo right before the revolution started. There's no comparison there, beyond the facile.

You remind me of someone...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-will-never-reach-20-again-27348

The U.S. debt has ballooned from about 8 to over 16 trillion dollars in only 6 years. You might want to view what just 1 trillion dollars looks like.

Giant armies are made up of ordinary people who may not always follow top down orders as we saw with Mubarak/Morsi in Egypt. If a giant army mandates Easter confetti have value will that confetti always have value? Also, there is no European army backing the euro, which instead is made up of several member states.

Yes, most of the money is spent trying to help children, run schools and build roads.

This is the stupidest argument ever against bitcoin!

Let it be known as Wingding's Moral Argument against Bitcoin.


Here: https://www.smore.com/feux-sean-s-outpost

Anyway, Internet protocols have nothing to do with morality...

Important to note that 20% is only if it's long-term capital gains, and only if you're in the highest tax bracket for LTCG.

If you experienced long-term capital gains, you'd be taxed at either 0%, 15%, or 20% depending on your income (assuming the IRS would categorize bitcoin appreciation as capital gains once you cash out). If you had held for less than a year and a day, you'd be paying at whatever your normal income tax rate is (up to 39.6% plus if you earn enough, an extra 3.8% in unearned income Medicare contribution).

It's important to keep track of your cost basis in bitcoin as well as carefully tracking when you buy and sell bitcoin so you know which ones you owe long-term capital gains on and which ones you owe short-term on.

sorry to hear that it did not work out for you. I just bought some coins; maybe yours? I expect to make thousands of dollars from each one. But there is no guarantee until you sell your coins, so you may have made a better decision. How much did you make per coin?

P.S. remember that if you are in the U.S. you will need to set aside 20% of your profits for tax time.

Hm, I don't see why you couldn't buy schools and so on with a currency like Bitcoins.
E.g. a state could decide to back up their money with Bitcoins.
It's just that Bitcoin is too small for things like that yet, unlike state currencies it wasn't born with millions of users.

A lot of countries want to leave the Euro. So it is definitely going to fall. Even 49% of German want Germany to leave Euro.

Dollar, we know where that is heading. The currency is doom.

I do think Bitcoin is risky. But I enjoy taking part in Extreme Sports. So I love the risk about Bitcoin.