At the moment we don't have any design issues and it's likely we will even make a handful of the Issue1's available for early access in a few days time to more advanced customers that can deal with it in the very raw state it is today. Over the next 1-2 weeks there will be a rapid development phase of the product as we get builds and software sorted out and this very raw state will migrate to something most people can handle.
The Issue 1.1 assembly start is currently targetted for about 21st of May and all being well with the Issue 1.1 some people will have their pre-order boards arrive shortly afterwards. We will probably only build 50 boards in the first week as a bedding in process for our line but that will step up in weeks following. Possibly not all of those made in the first week will ship in that week as we are tight on getting our first major heatsink delivery in. We already have some stock of heatsinks but not enough in yet for the first week's schedule. We are working on that heatsink delivery to pull it in to when we want it or alternatively looking to source an alternative heatsink for some shipments. As we go into June everything should step up a little as the long lead items flow in much larger numbers and many of our manufacturing constraints are no longer there.
I will give more of an design update once we freeze the Issue 1.1. After then we should also start to release the juicy bits of info everyone is looking for.
Yohan
Topic: Cairnsmore1 - Quad XC6SLX150 Board - page 121. (Read 286370 times)
Did you add a real picture? I only see the CAD
Scroll down. It looks interesting. 
At the moment we are still developing our ideas on this board but the Issue 1.1 design will freeze on Friday and head into manufacture then.
Yohan
Yohan
Yohan,
are there remaining issues you'd like to share before freezing them next friday?
spiccioli.
Photo of issue1 PCB (bare) now on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1.html. We have also added some new holes to the issue 1.1.
Each of the UP/DOWN connectors has 9 signals to use. 4 go to the controller and we have notional allocated them as POWER ON, TX, RX and CLK but can be reused in a variety of ways. Our intention for these initially is to support a serial messaging set fairly much in the normal fashion.
The remaining 5 signals go to one of the array FPGAs and those are put in to allow some greater bandwidth if that becomes necessary.
At the moment we are still developing our ideas on this board but the Issue 1.1 design will freeze on Friday and head into manufacture then.
Yohan
Each of the UP/DOWN connectors has 9 signals to use. 4 go to the controller and we have notional allocated them as POWER ON, TX, RX and CLK but can be reused in a variety of ways. Our intention for these initially is to support a serial messaging set fairly much in the normal fashion.
The remaining 5 signals go to one of the array FPGAs and those are put in to allow some greater bandwidth if that becomes necessary.
At the moment we are still developing our ideas on this board but the Issue 1.1 design will freeze on Friday and head into manufacture then.
Yohan
I suspected it was something like that, but would you use a ribbon for the downward power connector as well? Even something like a small backplane with say 4x boards spaced out enough for push/pull airflow to cool it. Would be extremely helpful in building rackmount farms (mechanically)
As for the ribbon chain, I assumed it was something like that
Our of curiosity what are you passing down that ribbon? Is it just a USB passthrough? Or does the bitstream need to be designed to work with the chained communications? (or is that something that the shipping bitstream on the Control chip will handle?). I love the idea of ribbon chaining 8 of these in a row, and presenting only a single USB to the host computer (for now) with the option of adding a small daughter board that has a uC and an Ethernet port for a few bucks down the road...
Hell if the ribbon uses a standard serial UART I could start tinkering with such a design anyway lol. (depending on how long you guys are going to be to market with that option).
Any further info on these new features would be greatly appreciated.
As for the ribbon chain, I assumed it was something like that
Our of curiosity what are you passing down that ribbon? Is it just a USB passthrough? Or does the bitstream need to be designed to work with the chained communications? (or is that something that the shipping bitstream on the Control chip will handle?). I love the idea of ribbon chaining 8 of these in a row, and presenting only a single USB to the host computer (for now) with the option of adding a small daughter board that has a uC and an Ethernet port for a few bucks down the road...
Hell if the ribbon uses a standard serial UART I could start tinkering with such a design anyway lol. (depending on how long you guys are going to be to market with that option).
Any further info on these new features would be greatly appreciated.
Looking forward to get the cards and mount my mini-farm.
With all the improvements, this company looks very promising.
Eagerly waiting for a new 6x-8x card
With all the improvements, this company looks very promising.
Eagerly waiting for a new 6x-8x card
It's a simple concept but we though it was worth adding now. It's a possibility that we could do a backplane that uses the down connector only but more mundanely we designed it for short ribbon cables so that we could have a stack that can be interrogated in a plug and play fashion. It also allows us to have an Ethernet option at a later date to run a stack of boards or even just save on the number of USB cables. It also allows us to switch on an entire stack in a phased manner to avoid large surges at power up.
This should be a good way for budget limited customers to buy the cheaper single and dual units in a modular fashion and we can say make 4 singles look like a full quad for software compatibility purposes. In this example you get a slightly bigger system but you can you use the same software setup.
The angling of the up and down connectors is deliberate for ribbon cable layout and that will become obvious why we did that when we show that in action.
The ribbon cable approach may be more flexible than a backplane as the number of boards in a stack isn't hard fixed. There will be a limit and that will depend on a number of things but more on that once we get playing with this interface properly.
This should be a good way for budget limited customers to buy the cheaper single and dual units in a modular fashion and we can say make 4 singles look like a full quad for software compatibility purposes. In this example you get a slightly bigger system but you can you use the same software setup.
The angling of the up and down connectors is deliberate for ribbon cable layout and that will become obvious why we did that when we show that in action.
The ribbon cable approach may be more flexible than a backplane as the number of boards in a stack isn't hard fixed. There will be a limit and that will depend on a number of things but more on that once we get playing with this interface properly.
Interesting. The new power connector looks like it's meant for the board to dock into a backplane. And the Up/Down data connector has me intrigued. Looking forward to further info on these 
New CAD image for the improved specification Issue 1.1 board on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1.html. This is the Issue that will ship to customers. I'll talk a bit more what we are doing with this improved spec board Wednesday and Thursday with a general update on how we are doing as well.
If anyone hasn't had an email response for their pre-order please send again. We seem to have had a couple vaporised by our hosting providers spam filters.
If anyone hasn't had an email response for their pre-order please send again. We seem to have had a couple vaporised by our hosting providers spam filters.
Sent an email to preorder.
Pre-order for May/June deliveries is now paused. You still order but the delivery slot will now be indicated as July. We may be able to pull this forward but that depends on a pile of parts arriving on time and development staying on schedule. Anyone already talking to us about a pre-order is ok if they reply to us by Wednesday.
The existing pre-orders are using about 60% of our May/June capability but won't commit on the balance capacity at this time.
The existing pre-orders are using about 60% of our May/June capability but won't commit on the balance capacity at this time.
Ok I will try to answer a bunch of things.
Cabling is as much important as connectors and many of the wires used for the disk drives wiring strings are very thin. These have actually got worse over the years that I have been using ATX power supplies and part of the reason for that is disk drives in general now use a lot less current than 20+ years or so ago when this standard started to be used. I have seen a lot of variation in the thickness in PCIe connector wiring as well but at least you get 2 or 3 strands each of 12V and GND to share the load.
We have added an extra power connector now to the design that will be on Issue 1.1 which is what most people will get that are on preorder. It's overkill for the board but it allows us to do custom wiring easily or even maybe a PCB distributor. No recommendaton but an example is http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/dnr120as12-i/psu-din-rail-120w-12v/dp/1372699 could be used to power 2 boards. Much bigger units can be bought and may be a better way than ATX power supplies. We also have a way to use multiple ATX power supplies in a larger system. The negative of some of the industrial power supplies is that they have exposed mains voltage terminals and need a proper encloseure when that is the case (no pun intended).
Moving on to software we are going to be some testing this week. Hopefully some on software size and we hope anything that works with Icarus will work will Cairnsmore. When we know more I will update you all on this thread. Same goes for bitstreams.
Pricing for the single and dual version of the board is coming. We are adding some daisy chaining features in the Issue 1.1 to allow a system build up and more on that later when we have that finalised. That may also allow a reduction in USB cables and maybe an Ethernet option eventually. It's likely we will offer the single and dual options for shipment in July onwards.
Programming - we are hoping to do one the following but all are subject to confirmation (1) ship with bitstreams already loaded or (2) ship with a programming cable (least likely as extra cost) or (3) ship with JTAG feature through USD data interface or (4) ship with a direct bitstream loader maybe with a falling back image feature.
To pre order send an email to bitcoin AT enterpoint DOT co DOT uk with address and contact details.
Yohan
Cabling is as much important as connectors and many of the wires used for the disk drives wiring strings are very thin. These have actually got worse over the years that I have been using ATX power supplies and part of the reason for that is disk drives in general now use a lot less current than 20+ years or so ago when this standard started to be used. I have seen a lot of variation in the thickness in PCIe connector wiring as well but at least you get 2 or 3 strands each of 12V and GND to share the load.
We have added an extra power connector now to the design that will be on Issue 1.1 which is what most people will get that are on preorder. It's overkill for the board but it allows us to do custom wiring easily or even maybe a PCB distributor. No recommendaton but an example is http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/dnr120as12-i/psu-din-rail-120w-12v/dp/1372699 could be used to power 2 boards. Much bigger units can be bought and may be a better way than ATX power supplies. We also have a way to use multiple ATX power supplies in a larger system. The negative of some of the industrial power supplies is that they have exposed mains voltage terminals and need a proper encloseure when that is the case (no pun intended).
Moving on to software we are going to be some testing this week. Hopefully some on software size and we hope anything that works with Icarus will work will Cairnsmore. When we know more I will update you all on this thread. Same goes for bitstreams.
Pricing for the single and dual version of the board is coming. We are adding some daisy chaining features in the Issue 1.1 to allow a system build up and more on that later when we have that finalised. That may also allow a reduction in USB cables and maybe an Ethernet option eventually. It's likely we will offer the single and dual options for shipment in July onwards.
Programming - we are hoping to do one the following but all are subject to confirmation (1) ship with bitstreams already loaded or (2) ship with a programming cable (least likely as extra cost) or (3) ship with JTAG feature through USD data interface or (4) ship with a direct bitstream loader maybe with a falling back image feature.
To pre order send an email to bitcoin AT enterpoint DOT co DOT uk with address and contact details.
Yohan
OK, so I read this whole post and have 1 question: Can I operate this using CGminer or Guiminer with a pool?
Someone mentioned that this may not be for the beginner miner. I've been mining for almost a year, but I don't consider myself to be the most techy person regarding how the mining software works.
However, my first BFL single unit will show up in the next couple days & I will be figuring out CGminer since that seems to be what everyone is using.
This seems like a lower wattage option for about the same Mhash?
Also, I like the 1 year warranty as opposed to 6 months with BFL.
Someone mentioned that this may not be for the beginner miner. I've been mining for almost a year, but I don't consider myself to be the most techy person regarding how the mining software works.
However, my first BFL single unit will show up in the next couple days & I will be figuring out CGminer since that seems to be what everyone is using.
This seems like a lower wattage option for about the same Mhash?
Also, I like the 1 year warranty as opposed to 6 months with BFL.
6 to 2x 6 is a really bad idea and I wish China would quit shoveling this shit on us. Essentially, it tells the very dumb users out there they can plug 150w worth of stuff into something that can only safely handle 75w of gear. Those two extra grounds don't just signal that 150w is possible, they're also legitimate grounds, the 5 pins of grounds is enough together to handle that 150w of 12v.
And yes, 6+2 is the same as 8, the extra two grounds are on a 2 pin plug so you can plug 8s into 6 pin sockets without a converter.
Also, Coolermaster sucks.
http://www.digikey.com/us/en/ph/Molex/MiniFitJr.html
A 6pin MiniFit Jr. is more than capable of carrying 150W. The restriction to 75W has more to do with validating power supplies when the spec was first made than it does with the physical capabilities of the connectors.
The pins, the plug and socket, and the wiring itself must all match minimum specification. With the right parts, you could do 300 watts or more across a PCI-E 8 pin plug.... as long as it meets the minimum specification for such. As such, EPS12 plugs are also Molex MiniFit Jrs, and they happily do around 350 watts.
Kind of pisses me off they didn't for for 150/300 watts for 6/8 instead of 75/150, it would have been far more useful.
6 to 2x 6 is a really bad idea and I wish China would quit shoveling this shit on us. Essentially, it tells the very dumb users out there they can plug 150w worth of stuff into something that can only safely handle 75w of gear. Those two extra grounds don't just signal that 150w is possible, they're also legitimate grounds, the 5 pins of grounds is enough together to handle that 150w of 12v.
And yes, 6+2 is the same as 8, the extra two grounds are on a 2 pin plug so you can plug 8s into 6 pin sockets without a converter.
Also, Coolermaster sucks.
http://www.digikey.com/us/en/ph/Molex/MiniFitJr.html
A 6pin MiniFit Jr. is more than capable of carrying 150W. The restriction to 75W has more to do with validating power supplies when the spec was first made than it does with the physical capabilities of the connectors.
This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.
This is very useful info. You specifically mentioned 8->2 6 splitters. May I ask why one couldn't use 6->2 6x splitters? It is my understanding that the 8 or 6 pin PCI-E is the same, but ground from pins 6 and 7 is also bridged to pin 4 and 8.
Look at the Cooler Master Pro Hybrid 850 (single 70A rail), it has 4 PCI-E out (gray in picture). It comes with 4 cables.
2x PCI-E 6 Pin to PCI-E 6+2 Pin
2x PCI-E 6 Pin to 2x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
Total 6x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
(I assume PCI-E 8 Pin and PCI-E 6+2 Pin is the same, isn't it?)
Image:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/upload/product/3057/gallery/full/5.jpg?1733052483
6 to 2x 6 is a really bad idea and I wish China would quit shoveling this shit on us. Essentially, it tells the very dumb users out there they can plug 150w worth of stuff into something that can only safely handle 75w of gear. Those two extra grounds don't just signal that 150w is possible, they're also legitimate grounds, the 5 pins of grounds is enough together to handle that 150w of 12v.
And yes, 6+2 is the same as 8, the extra two grounds are on a 2 pin plug so you can plug 8s into 6 pin sockets without a converter.
Also, Coolermaster sucks.
This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.
This is very useful info. You specifically mentioned 8->2 6 splitters. May I ask why one couldn't use 6->2 6x splitters? It is my understanding that the 8 or 6 pin PCI-E is the same, but ground from pins 6 and 7 is also bridged to pin 4 and 8.
Look at the Cooler Master Pro Hybrid 850 (single 70A rail), it has 4 PCI-E out (gray in picture). It comes with 4 cables.
2x PCI-E 6 Pin to PCI-E 6+2 Pin
2x PCI-E 6 Pin to 2x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
Total 6x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
(I assume PCI-E 8 Pin and PCI-E 6+2 Pin is the same, isn't it?)
Image:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/upload/product/3057/gallery/full/5.jpg?1733052483
please use molex connector.
the pcie connector is very limited per psu.
What?the pcie connector is very limited per psu.
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.
Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.
It should also be noted that the wire gauge makes a big difference. Claiming that you can put 50W through the Molex connector may be true, with optimal wiring. But when you see power supplies with 5x molex all daisy chained on a single strand of 18AWG wire, putting 250W through a single strand of 18AWG is a BAD idea
(just saying)So people need to be aware of the connector limit, and the wiring limits, and PSU Rail limits, and so on. Looking at only one specific component is bound to start a fire.
(But yes you are correct, I'm simply pointing out that many people will read that and go "OH I can use this cheap chinese supply that says it's 600W and has 9 molex on a single strand, so I can run 450Watt through that strand for this rig running on my carpeted floor in my home" and expect not to burn their house down)
Also it should be said that while that's the rating for the connector, poorly made connectors which may not provide reliable contact are notorious for arcing inside the housing, and causing thermal damage (eventually resulting in a fire, melted parts at the least)
This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.
+1
please use molex connector.
the pcie connector is very limited per psu.
What?the pcie connector is very limited per psu.
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.
Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.
It should also be noted that the wire gauge makes a big difference. Claiming that you can put 50W through the Molex connector may be true, with optimal wiring. But when you see power supplies with 5x molex all daisy chained on a single strand of 18AWG wire, putting 250W through a single strand of 18AWG is a BAD idea
(just saying)So people need to be aware of the connector limit, and the wiring limits, and PSU Rail limits, and so on. Looking at only one specific component is bound to start a fire.
(But yes you are correct, I'm simply pointing out that many people will read that and go "OH I can use this cheap chinese supply that says it's 600W and has 9 molex on a single strand, so I can run 450Watt through that strand for this rig running on my carpeted floor in my home" and expect not to burn their house down)
Also it should be said that while that's the rating for the connector, poorly made connectors which may not provide reliable contact are notorious for arcing inside the housing, and causing thermal damage (eventually resulting in a fire, melted parts at the least)
This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.
please use molex connector.
the pcie connector is very limited per psu.
What?the pcie connector is very limited per psu.
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.
Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
You're correct.
In my opinion, its much easier to have 2 boards on one molex connector cable. Usually i find there are 3 molex connector cables per PSU, which gives you 6 boards.
What do i do with the PCI-E connectors? Splitter ofcourse! each 6 pin connector can be splitted to 2 molex connectors.
The 4 pin molex connector is much cheaper to buy and ready available every where.
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