California sues Amazon, alleging its policies cause higher prices everywhere

blue_hurricanger

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 23, 2022, 09:12:40 AM

Quote from: blue_hurricanger on September 23, 2022, 05:51:35 AM

What you missing here is this one. People or buyer has a sort of loyal thinking to branding or platform. If they used to get their stuff from a platform, unless it earns their mistrust, they'll keep using it. This is how Amazon has established itself and its position. They got too many customers browsing Amazon that they were confident even with a little bit more expensive price, they can still sell it against the competitors on other platforms. As well as tricks like price floor like this. So yeah, I can understand why some sellers feel frustrated if they made their goods become available on many platforms and earn a blacklist from Amazon if they set their goods price lower on any platforms other than Amazon.

Yes... the last point is a valid one and I am not very comfortable with it.

Amazon blacklists sellers if they sell their products at a lower rate in any of the other online platforms. If the California authorities want to eradicate this practice, then I am 100% in support of them. But given the socialist/communist leaning of the current California representatives, I really don't think that their intention is that good.

Here in India, it is an entirely different story. Offline stores (who used to overcharge the customers by up to 2x) are mad that products are being available at very cheap rates in Amazon.

To be fair, it was Amazon's site after all. They might do a lot of 'scoop low' like this to maintain their monopoly on all the eCommerce platforms and competitors. For example, they can argue the 'price floor' is there to help and protect sellers on their site from the flash sales from other storefronts which also have their store open on other eCommerce platforms different from Amazon. Short flash sales to attract customers from Amazon leaving the site for the other.

Similar to that, a cut for Amazon from the seller higher than the other is a normal thing in online distribution or retail. About how one popular distributor demands more cuts than the less popular ones. Steam, for example, takes 30% share from the sales on there. Epic Games, another platform to sell games only take 12% from the sales, the rest toward the devs. All are fair in the open and competitive market.

tygeade

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 22, 2022, 09:31:08 PM

California is the bluest of the blue states and whatever happened there during the last 2-3 decades can be solely attributed to the policies of the Democrat party. Else how can a state which is home to the Silicon Valley can become bankrupt? I am not defending the GOP as well. Pre-Trump era Republican party was like Democrats on steroids. There were countless invasions of third world nations, which resulted in military expenses of trillions of USD. Trump era was an exception, as the tax rates went down, and there were no major military interventions.

If you google "best places to live in the USA" you will see that majority of it is democrat cities, and if you check where people are moving to, that's mainly blue states as well, with one exception which is Californians moving away. What you need to understand is that Sillicon Valley didn't made it better, it made it worse, it caused wealth discrepancy which caused people who are not as rich to move away from there due to lack of money, that's the reason.

Trump or no Trump, democrat or republican, black or white, religious or secular, like I said, it's NEVER about the ideas, it is always about the people, good people will create good states, bad people will create bad states, simple as that. It has absolutely nothing to do with which party you are on.

Sithara007

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Quote from: blue_hurricanger on September 23, 2022, 05:51:35 AM

What you missing here is this one. People or buyer has a sort of loyal thinking to branding or platform. If they used to get their stuff from a platform, unless it earns their mistrust, they'll keep using it. This is how Amazon has established itself and its position. They got too many customers browsing Amazon that they were confident even with a little bit more expensive price, they can still sell it against the competitors on other platforms. As well as tricks like price floor like this. So yeah, I can understand why some sellers feel frustrated if they made their goods become available on many platforms and earn a blacklist from Amazon if they set their goods price lower on any platforms other than Amazon.

Yes... the last point is a valid one and I am not very comfortable with it.

Amazon blacklists sellers if they sell their products at a lower rate in any of the other online platforms. If the California authorities want to eradicate this practice, then I am 100% in support of them. But given the socialist/communist leaning of the current California representatives, I really don't think that their intention is that good.

Here in India, it is an entirely different story. Offline stores (who used to overcharge the customers by up to 2x) are mad that products are being available at very cheap rates in Amazon.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: stompix on September 20, 2022, 11:04:42 PM

Quote from: Hydrogen on September 19, 2022, 05:52:56 PM

California being the home of silicon valley and 5th largest economy in the world. As well as the homes of google, apple, tesla, microsoft and countless other world famous US tech start ups. One might wonder how california came to have leadership which blames amazon for high market prices. Is this the future direction for silicon valley and the united states as a whole?

The dream is near the end, California has stopped being the land of the promise and it's starting to turn more and more into a mess of capitalism socialism and even communism with the cheery on top being that they are only taking the worse part from everything.

The whole dream about building a utopia, like the one with green energy that has led California to have both the highest prices and the most black-outs, the ban of gas cars, and then the announcement to not load your electric car as you stress the grid, the taxes that are driving the same companies away to, ironically Texas, idiotic laws to preserve cities like they are museums driving up prices for homes, driving up rents, turning people into homeless and the ending up destroying the same city center you wanted to protect and eradicating every business there because of crime. And god, how many more!!!

That’s what happens when you have unchecked growth just to get some more money. California got so much money thanks to big corporations there, many of the big tech companies are there and paying their taxes there at the same time, which is understandable because it is a location where they can find the right people to work there, but at the same time this caused wealth difference between regular people and these people.

I feel like capitalism has never really worked, and California could be a great example for it as well, liberalism doesn't mean let everyone either be rich or die, it means you should be free to do whatever you want but the role of the government should still exist to protect its citizens.

blue_hurricanger

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Quote from: wxa7115 on September 22, 2022, 10:16:23 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 20, 2022, 09:17:10 PM

No sympathies here. Companies such as Amazon and Google spend billions of USD every year to manipulate elections in favor of left-wing political parties, and they are now getting sued by the same people whom they helped to elect. I don't understand this logic. How can Amazon influence the prices in other online platforms? I can say with full confidence that the arrival of Amazon helped to lower prices for 99% of the products and to remove the middle-men. I am sure that the current lawsuit was planned by the middle-men who lost their business due to Amazon.

then you find the very same product or another product with similar characteristics for a cheaper price in another platform then it is natural that you are going to buy the cheaper option

What you missing here is this one. People or buyer has a sort of loyal thinking to branding or platform. If they used to get their stuff from a platform, unless it earns their mistrust, they'll keep using it. This is how Amazon has established itself and its position. They got too many customers browsing Amazon that they were confident even with a little bit more expensive price, they can still sell it against the competitors on other platforms. As well as tricks like price floor like this. So yeah, I can understand why some sellers feel frustrated if they made their goods become available on many platforms and earn a blacklist from Amazon if they set their goods price lower on any platforms other than Amazon.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 20, 2022, 09:17:10 PM

No sympathies here. Companies such as Amazon and Google spend billions of USD every year to manipulate elections in favor of left-wing political parties, and they are now getting sued by the same people whom they helped to elect. I don't understand this logic. How can Amazon influence the prices in other online platforms? I can say with full confidence that the arrival of Amazon helped to lower prices for 99% of the products and to remove the middle-men. I am sure that the current lawsuit was planned by the middle-men who lost their business due to Amazon.

This is what I do not get either, it is not as if people are mindless buyers which will only buy whatever they have in front of them, if you use Amazon and you're looking for a product and then you find the very same product or another product with similar characteristics for a cheaper price in another platform then it is natural that you are going to buy the cheaper option as long as the product is similar.

If what they accuse Amazon of doing is true then at some point people will realize this and then they will begin to stop using Amazon by themselves without the need of any regulation or lawsuit, the capitalist system is very good at dealing with those price distortions and we do not need the government to do anything, as most of the time they make things worse instead of improving them.

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Quote from: tygeade on September 22, 2022, 01:26:04 PM

The problem is not the taxes, it is the high income individuals, there are other states with high taxes and democrats in charge and they do not have this problem. There is a great understanding among the republicans to keep on showing California as a failed state to get votes in other places, but we have seen horrible states managed by republicans and amazing states managed by democrats as well, should we just make deductions based on that?

It's the people that makes a state good or bad, if it's a good person and a republican then they will make it a good state, if it's a good person but a democrat they will make it a good state, look for good people, not policies, republican ideas or democrat ideas, laws of both side, as long as managed by people with good hearts and intentions, could make any state better.

California is the bluest of the blue states and whatever happened there during the last 2-3 decades can be solely attributed to the policies of the Democrat party. Else how can a state which is home to the Silicon Valley can become bankrupt? I am not defending the GOP as well. Pre-Trump era Republican party was like Democrats on steroids. There were countless invasions of third world nations, which resulted in military expenses of trillions of USD. Trump era was an exception, as the tax rates went down, and there were no major military interventions.

tygeade

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 21, 2022, 10:23:17 PM

The problem is that a lot of people migrate to neighboring states such as Arizona, Texas and Nevada as a result of sky high tax rates in California, and these people after coming to NV and AZ vote for the same sort of politicians who push tax rates further up in these states. And in the end, these states will also pursue populist policies and end up similar to California. And I don't have any sympathies for those who reside in CA. They deserve whatever they get, after electing people like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein and Kamala Harris.

The problem is not the taxes, it is the high income individuals, there are other states with high taxes and democrats in charge and they do not have this problem. There is a great understanding among the republicans to keep on showing California as a failed state to get votes in other places, but we have seen horrible states managed by republicans and amazing states managed by democrats as well, should we just make deductions based on that?

It's the people that makes a state good or bad, if it's a good person and a republican then they will make it a good state, if it's a good person but a democrat they will make it a good state, look for good people, not policies, republican ideas or democrat ideas, laws of both side, as long as managed by people with good hearts and intentions, could make any state better.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Poker Player on September 20, 2022, 10:45:47 PM

I am not surprised from a state that has abandoned the ideals that made it the state where everyone wanted to emigrate, and has become a state from which people flee:

More and more regulations and taxes, prohibiting and forcing, and now the typical thing was missing, which is to understand the economy backwards from the way it works.

Let them keep it up in California, they are going to do very well.

The problem is that a lot of people migrate to neighboring states such as Arizona, Texas and Nevada as a result of sky high tax rates in California, and these people after coming to NV and AZ vote for the same sort of politicians who push tax rates further up in these states. And in the end, these states will also pursue populist policies and end up similar to California. And I don't have any sympathies for those who reside in CA. They deserve whatever they get, after electing people like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein and Kamala Harris.

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It is certainly a difficult job to be in the senate of California, or be its governor or mayor anywhere there, or basically have any sort of power. It is a state where the silicon valley people are making a huge huge amount of money and increasing the prices of course, living in a world where money is abundant for them, and anyone else there would be living in poverty.

By comparison, there are "people" who are richer than famous Hollywood celebrities and they are just employees, a good CTO could make a lot more and you wouldn't even know who they are, how many people know the name of Amazons CTO really? Hence, amazon does, but it is not just amazon, silicon valley drives the prices up together, for anyone who is not working in tech.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on September 19, 2022, 05:52:56 PM

California being the home of silicon valley and 5th largest economy in the world. As well as the homes of google, apple, tesla, microsoft and countless other world famous US tech start ups. One might wonder how california came to have leadership which blames amazon for high market prices. Is this the future direction for silicon valley and the united states as a whole?

The dream is near the end, California has stopped being the land of the promise and it's starting to turn more and more into a mess of capitalism socialism and even communism with the cheery on top being that they are only taking the worse part from everything.

The whole dream about building a utopia, like the one with green energy that has led California to have both the highest prices and the most black-outs, the ban of gas cars, and then the announcement to not load your electric car as you stress the grid, the taxes that are driving the same companies away to, ironically Texas, idiotic laws to preserve cities like they are museums driving up prices for homes, driving up rents, turning people into homeless and the ending up destroying the same city center you wanted to protect and eradicating every business there because of crime. And god, how many more!!!

Quote from: coupable on September 20, 2022, 11:15:10 AM

Amazon has caused thousands of job losses around the world, which is a much larger number than the jobs it created. It may have become easier for small sellers to sell their products through Amazon, but this has created a real jobs crisis after the company itself manufactures many products on its own and controls the entire distribution process.n.

Let's bring back switchboard operators, lamplighters, bowling pin setters, and all the others!
Because that's what we need, to have thousands of people doing what can be done by a single person, and of course, everyone is willing to pay those 1000x extra wages out of their own pocket.

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I am not surprised from a state that has abandoned the ideals that made it the state where everyone wanted to emigrate, and has become a state from which people flee:

How Many People Are Leaving California (2022)

More and more regulations and taxes, prohibiting and forcing, and now the typical thing was missing, which is to understand the economy backwards from the way it works.

Let them keep it up in California, they are going to do very well.

yhiaali3

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I do not know if these allegations are true, but in some cases I found that Amazon prices are lower than local stores, the Internet is transparent enough to know the validity of these allegations, but in my opinion this is a competitive field and everyone sets the price they see fit and no one is forced to buy, buyers have The freedom to search online and find out the cheapest price and buy from the site that suits them, I don't think anyone can force them to buy.

Sithara007

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No sympathies here. Companies such as Amazon and Google spend billions of USD every year to manipulate elections in favor of left-wing political parties, and they are now getting sued by the same people whom they helped to elect. I don't understand this logic. How can Amazon influence the prices in other online platforms? I can say with full confidence that the arrival of Amazon helped to lower prices for 99% of the products and to remove the middle-men. I am sure that the current lawsuit was planned by the middle-men who lost their business due to Amazon.

Upgrade00

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Judging from the fact that Amazon has earlier this year paid $2.25 million to the Washington state attorney general's office after a lawsuit on alledged price manipulation on their site and also discontinuing their "sold by Amazon" program, which was a way where sellers let the platform determine the best price for their products, it's no surprise they are getting another lawsuit now.

Big companies with monopoly like Amazon, Google etc are prone to unsavoury practices to boost profits and also fizzle put competitors.
I've not gone through this entire law suit to know the merits of the case which the state of California is bringing up yet, but with their antecedents, Amazon is likely culpable.

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I think that this lawsuit has merit. Amazon has been accused of anticompetitive practices before, and I think that this case could set a precedent for future cases.

The evidence presented in the lawsuit filed by the state of California can be damning since it's really happening and can be easily proved. It is clear that Amazon has been using its market power to stifle competition and keep prices artificially high. This is detrimental to consumers and is a clear violation of antitrust laws.

Hopefully, we will see some real regulations after this lawsuit else it will be frivolous and futile.

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on September 20, 2022, 02:38:13 AM

Quote from: Gayong88 on September 19, 2022, 11:14:23 PM

Is this a case of good competition, or are other motives at play?

Amazon is so big it can pretty much act like a monopoly. If you want to sell at Amazon, you may have to lower the price or even sell at a loss. Many think that their products being sold at Amazon is a commercial by itself.
So it's a complicated issue and I would not be surprised that everybody who sells at a loss at Amazon, will try to recover that loss somewhere else.
Maybe this is what "California" is implying? I don't know. It will be a very interesting case, however.

what amazon is practicing is actually also being done by other e-commerce around the world, so I'm not really surprised if the California government tries to warn amazon about the possibility of monopoly and also other illegal practices that cause small traders to lose competitiveness with big traders.
I think the regulation on e-commerce needs to be tightened again because the competition in it is getting more and more unhealthy.

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I'm open to the argument that amazon might have a monopoly in local markets because of the wholesale/online advantage, which might require some level of regulation. Except the tyrants in California decided to lockdown their entire economy during COVID and implement business killing regulations which allowed Amazon to drink up the consumer base when small businesses couldn't adhere to the COVID regulations. Combine this with inflation, I'm sure it would appear the higher prices are a result of corporate monopoly and not anti-competition government policy.

Seems on par for California to blame the businesses for their own incompetence. Somehow they're still confused as to why they're leaving.

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Quote from: Gayong88 on September 19, 2022, 11:14:23 PM

Is this a case of good competition, or are other motives at play? I think this is an interesting experiment that should help inform consumers, and sellers. Thanks to the Internet, the cost of selling goods is more transparent than ever.

There's likely motives in play, of that I am pretty sure because Amazon is a pretty big deal and I think that there's enough people that Amazon has good terms with that they go towards this case. Good competition is out of the picture, it's unlikely that we are going to see any competition against Amazon, they're essentially a monopoly in e-commerce.

Amazon has caused thousands of job losses around the world, which is a much larger number than the jobs it created. It may have become easier for small sellers to sell their products through Amazon, but this has created a real jobs crisis after the company itself manufactures many products on its own and controls the entire distribution process.
I did not expect any party to cancel its activity contracts locally due to the company's popularity and the huge number of its clients. On the other hand, I do not know if Amazon's competitors are able to fulfill the state's needs with the same smoothness and ease that it was with Amazon.

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When someone became the monopoly then their next step is obviously to make more money as much as they can so it's understandable that why it is happening. But the future can really change quickly if people realize what is actually happening in the market, and if government support the local products more then surely the market will come back to neutral again.

Another reason why prices are getting higher is because of drop shipping which is new business idea and lot of people engaging in it, they simply buy from a seller and sell it back again on the platform.

Topic: California sues Amazon, alleging its policies cause higher prices everywhere (Read 259 times)