Topic: Can Bitcoin Become Negative in Value? - page 4. (Read 1340 times)

I do not think that the price of bitcoin can be negative, halving is done so that there is no currency inflation, the number of ATMs for cryptocurrencies is increasing, more and more countries are starting to use bitcoin more than before. Therefore, it is difficult to imagine such a thing as a negative price.

That would be a massive pull out if that thing happens but how could they do that if they already establish and got a good benefit from mining bitcoins, can they do this with the the other alts? maybe yes but for sure its for short term only and for sure if all miners will not synchronized for sure there will be a different figures on results and I don't think they will leave bitcoins either since this is strong crypto among the others.

the case for WTI oil has a reason why the price is minus. it is because their supply is abundant while demand is not as much as inventory. I read in some news that the cost to temporarily stop production is greater than making reservoirs for abundant oil, so they make the price minus, or even pay for anyone who wants to hold the oil. well, abundant supply and production is the reason, while bitcoin has limits for it, even mining also requires time, and demand is very much. for now, I don't think the price of bitcoin can be the same as the price of the WTI oil.

The block reward (block subsidy+transactions fees) is the only reason why miners continue to mine coins in the bitcoin network. If there weren't any incentivizing aspect like that, the bitcoin network wouldn't exist at all. Nobody is mining just for the love for bitcoin, because this is very expensive process to prove the work. Miners are selling their time and electrical power to be rewarded with bitcoin. Some of them do love bitcoin, but still they likely have to sell it all the time in order to cover the costs. Satoshi Nakamoto designed the network so that there would always be an incentive to keep it safe. He understood that no one would work for just love alone.

The first case is very unlikely to happen. We have passed that period when we got scared that bitcoin was going to be banned the world over. It rid not happen then and I do not see it happening now. The second case is likely to happen but I do not think all miners will leave at the same time. There are miners who do what they do for the love of bitcoin. Those miners will not leave.

I am even pleased with the current state of the oil products market. Mankind has long had to gradually abandon the use of oil and stop polluting the environment. We have practically unlimited sources of energy - these are wind and solar energy. The current situation in this market and the apparent abrupt climate change may make us finally take a different look at the use of natural resources.
Cryptocurrency has a completely different nature of its functioning. Here completely different problems are possible and negative cost does not threaten her.

To have a negative value, the cost to keep an asset should be more than its viable cost to sell. If there are laws to ban bitcoin and punish even if we hold it, then we gotta pay others who are going to hold it for us for a fee. And if that fee is greater than the value of btc,  voila! You just got paid to receive bitcoin.

I don't think that it will ever come to that and the reason for that is the fact that it has a limited supply and the supply withing the circulation is also dictating how much the price will be (supply and demand), unlike oil, bitcoin is a currency and oil is a commodity, right now the pandemic is ravaging the world and making a worldwide lockdown which in turn will make people unable to go to their jobs and it also means that there will be less transport that is going to occur, which greatly affected oil prices because again the supply and demand does not match obviously, my point is that bitcoin will never go in negative value because it is a currency, for context, did the value of Bolivares go negative?

Uuhm,  ???I don’t think that such can happen to Bitcoin. There was a reason why the Oil market has dropped to a negative price. The news has it that in a bid to avoid incurring storage cost, the sellers are now paying their buyers to take deliveries. This is the first time that such has happened in history, and to be sincere, a lot of people in the past would have doubted that such a thing would ever happen, but now it happened.

So in the case of Bitcoin, I am not going to doubt it, neither am I expecting it to happen. It would be better that it never happens, because a lot of people would see that as an opportunity to make some foolish comments. Bitcoin will keep growing, and as the years goes on, the community will grow along with the price.

Bitcoin is value of crypto other country because Bangladesh is not accepted in bitcoin. Bangladesh govt don't accepted in bitcoin. bitcoin is illegal for Bangladesh but not other country. So other country accepted bank or booth and other payment getaway. Bangladesh some are people are using bitcoin they are not proper way to get more profit because Bangladesh govt can,t accepted in this currency.

he's trolling.

bitcoin privacy is better than ever before. in the coming years, we'll have taproot to obfuscate transaction type and dandelion to obfuscate IP address. taproot will even obfuscate atomic swaps for mixing purposes.

privacy at the open protocol level is lacking today, but mixers, coinjoins, payjoins, and TOR are a solid baseline defense against blockchain analysis. they can throw heuristics at us (which taproot will make totally ineffective) but even now, blockchain analysis is mostly probability based. most of it would never hold up in court.

by "censorship" i assume he means BCH and BSV stuff gets moved to the altcoin forums or deleted.

The negative crude oil price was very absurd and kinda funny.There's no such thing as a "negative price" in the normal world of market economy.
A negative price of -37 USD means that sellers will have to PAY YOU in order to convince you to "buy" their product(which is free).This is absurd and it will never happend.
Most Oil producing countries will be fine.Russia will face some hard times in the short term and the rich monarchies in middle east will have to cut their spending  for luxurious goods for a while.
Anyway,the Bitcoin price can't become negative,it might go close to 1K or below,due to a mass worldwide ban,but it will never be close to 0$ or below 0$.

Never mate because you must not compared Bitcoin to other physical form
as they are not meant to be.
Bitcoin can become lower in price but won't end the demand so it is impossible to turn zero value and will never in negative.
and also even Miners stops mining yet the value will remain as people will continue to use this and never to be abandoned .

This is response is outstanding among the comments on this threads. I want everyone to pay attention to this particular comment as I ask this question.

With due regards, kindly explain what you mean by 'privacy of bitcoin' and 'censorship of the bitcointalk forum'

Thanks

Very remarkable explanations. I also see some insignificant variable costs associated in storing our bitcoin. The cost include, buying devices for that purposes, buying internet subscription to download software wallets etc.

Shouldn't we factor these cost into our analysis of the possibility of bitcoin becoming negative.

In my opinion it is impossible for the price of bitcoin to be negative, to be zero is very unlikely. I think bitcoin is not possible losing demand,
with all the benefits we can get from bitcoin. And also bitcoin can't be banned by all countries, the proof is now the number of countries that
legalize bitcoin continues to grow.

First of all I want to say that it has nothing to do with bitcoin and I'll explain later.
Now, what happened? Because of corona virus there were made a lot of restrictions around the world regarding to travelling. Stay at home resulted in decreased car usage. You don't need fuel if you don't use car.
Price of crude oil become negative which directly means owners pay you to just own, store it. In economics we have one rule: There is demand - there is supply but current situation is the pure example of what happens when there is excessive supply but no demand. But situation isn't that simple right now because company owners can't just throw it and at the same time their storage capacity could run out in May so they have to get rid of it anyway. What's the latest deal? To pay someone to just get it. It's like, imagine what do you do when your phone is out of storage and have upcoming information to store? You are pushed to delete some information but you need it, it's important, so you are paying others to store it, in this case cloud storage companies. In this case both, cruide oil company owners and you are seeking for storage.

But such situation can't happen on bitcoin!
First of all by owning bitcoin you don't lose anything, you can receive 21 million bitcoin in your wallet without any storage issues or etc, then can just destroy it. No one loses by owning bitcoin so there is no need to pay any cent someone for just sending and storing of it. Even if bitcoin becomes banned all around the world, don't even think that miners will pay you just to get mining equipments, no, because those equipments contain parts that can be recycled and used for other purposes which means owners will get at least some money.

Not really. It can't end up being on a negative value, since you won't be incurring any loss or you do not have to spend anything to store your coins. I am not surprised that you have never heard of negative pricing. Let me explain it to you on layman's term. The demand for oil fell due to this pandemic. But, oils are still being pumped at the same rate. Now, they are no longer being able to store those extra oils. Again, storing is also costing them a lot. So, they are giving away their oils and paying to get it off their hands. Now you might be thinking why don't they just shutdown their operation and stop pumping all those oils, right? Well, terminating and restarting everything is going to cost them a lot more!
I am sure you have heard of negative interest rate. That's another interesting topic.

it seems like the opposite to me. oil very much has (or recently had) negative value.

settled physically deliverable futures contract = a true measure of the underlying commodity itself. if you need to pay people to take delivery on oil, that tangibly reflects the market value. storage costs (cost of carry) are characteristic of the real underlying asset. it is unsettled futures contracts---or contracts that don't require physical delivery---that don't reflect the true cost of carry. these can retain value precisely because they don't reflect the true value of oil.

this isn't just about oil speculators being unable to store oil. oil producers in the USA are generally still operating at full capacity because 1. shutting down wells is expensive, labor-intensive, and can permanently damage the site. and 2. producers took SBA bailout loans and will operate until the money runs dry, then they will default and not repay the loans. all the oil they are producing has to go somewhere, even if they have to pay someone to take it.

this could never happen to bitcoin because unlike oil, bitcoin has no carrying cost.

Well if you know bitcoin market very well you will know that the market is always volatile and any thing can happen, just like the crude oil market if the demand drop the price will also follow. The covid 19 pandemic have dealt heavy on the economy.