Can Bitcoin even work in our current system? - page 4.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: wdnj on December 11, 2018, 12:14:57 PM

Bitcoin is well develop.

According to the developers of the bitcoin core wallets bitcoin is still in its beta stage. Think of this as being in beta stage for 10 years now and still people are so much willing to get into it. How awesome would it be when it actually becomes alpha!

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we are in the world of computer where everything we want to be in an instant.

Which is actually a bad thing and having such a conception for everything not crypto in general has a bad impact on the younger generation. They suffer from anxiety and panic when things dont happen instantly and dont have patience.

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Money trasfer is good. though government wants to stop it as bitcoin innovation gets into the danger zone!
what is danger zone? it is the time where FIAT want to be replace by new currency which government cannot accept and not ready!

Governments have their own regulations on different places for crypto. Its neither good nor bad but only makes it more grey in my opinion.

coinfinger

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Quote from: shendy on December 09, 2018, 08:52:02 PM

Quote from: setialovers on December 09, 2018, 07:15:58 PM

Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Its hard for bitcoin to be world currency because bitcoin is decentralized. I think bitcoin can be an alternative payment or currency. Every country have different economic strenght and its hard to measure economic if using bitcoin

Not as easy as we imagine, bitcoin has a nature that is not easy to stabilize and will continue to change and this is difficult to accept, even the government has not been able to allow bitcoin to fly freely. The existence of bitcoin is acceptable but if the transaction has not been obtained a permit.

It would be a good step forward if we could just adjust banks to crypto currencies and just put them in our bank account, current system is already as high tech as it gets because banks are dealing with billions even trillions of dollars so their technology is more advanced than many of other business.

If we can just put that type of information in our bank accounts as well and just buy/sell in our banks system instead of trusting a third party exchange that would create an INSANE amount of increase.

Think about it, right now bitcoin worths so much compared to couple years ago, if banks all over the world decide to say "from now on we are your crypto exchange" and put up bitcoin/ethereum to begin with, that would create SO MUCH volume for all of us, even people who do not think about getting bitcoin could be persuaded to have a bit aside.

Patient_Zero

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Quote from: tenakha on October 13, 2018, 04:18:25 PM

I don't think that's gonna be a problem. Separate tokens can be created for credit. Nothing can replace the purity in the economy after crypto acceptance. Imagine that there will only be limited money and no one will intervene.

Bitcoin in the future will be able to be combined with the banking world, because the existence of an interconnected system will greatly facilitate the smoothness of making payments and deposits, in the future state banks can also facilitate the use of bitcoin in all sectors, this is very possible, and now the situation has begun to allow for something like this.

Lexurdania

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Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

If the world only using bitcoin, there is no central banks and money supply finite in 21million supply. Its hard to measure economic in a country because all transaction getting decentralized. But i am not economic expert

wdnj

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Bitcoin is well develop. we are in the world of computer where everything we want to be in an instant.
Money trasfer is good. though government wants to stop it as bitcoin innovation gets into the danger zone!
what is danger zone? it is the time where FIAT want to be replace by new currency which government cannot accept and not ready!

South Park

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 10, 2018, 06:57:19 AM

That's why with the current economic system Bitcoin can not replace all fiat money, the two payment systems should coexist until a new solution for the world economy's vulnerability will be found. The thing is that the current model, although it is "boosting growth" as you said, inevitably leads to periodical collapses causing a lot of harm to many people. We should find a new model, a more stable one, and, as paradoxical as it sounds, I think Bitcoin can be a part of that model.

I have also thought a lot about that, the current system doesn't work not only because it produces periodic crashes but also because governments use their power to benefit some people over others and this destroys true competition, but it is also going to be difficult for bitcoin to replace fiat completely because the economy is based on the assumption that the main currency of the world can be printed in unlimited quantities, so it will be very interesting to see how this is eventually resolved.

wahyu wida

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Quote from: toast on December 11, 2018, 09:40:29 AM

in my opinion, depending on the situation, replacing an existing system, of course, requires the legality of trust and the system to improve the existing system

right, with the existence of legality certainly does not violate applicable law. and this is highly recommended for legal entities. of course, as good as any system if it violates the law, it will have bad consequences

toast

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in my opinion, depending on the situation, replacing an existing system, of course, requires the legality of trust and the system to improve the existing system

dangerousdanjon

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Quote from: efxtrader on December 10, 2018, 02:19:06 AM

Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Government and central banks always increasing money supply in market to boost growth and i think thats can not do with bitcoin. Bitcoin already have limited supply and its decentralized system. But cryptocurrency concept should be working in our currency economic system

I do not think that the increase in the supply of money by the government can engender the growth of the economy but only devalues the value of the currency. This is not the case with Bitcoin.

Escf4

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There is really a compatibility of bitcoin in our current system , for our current system now that are mostly digital ,then bitcoin as a decentralized digital currency, can be surely be adopted and wotk well with this current system that is in digital technology.

SCheek

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I see a world with the global gold standard of BTC and locally made alt coins for each country. They would have various traits etc and some limits and some not. The alt coins would be lent out with BTC as collateral.

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: efxtrader on December 10, 2018, 02:19:06 AM

Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Government and central banks always increasing money supply in market to boost growth and i think thats can not do with bitcoin. Bitcoin already have limited supply and its decentralized system. But cryptocurrency concept should be working in our currency economic system

That's why with the current economic system Bitcoin can not replace all fiat money, the two payment systems should coexist until a new solution for the world economy's vulnerability will be found. The thing is that the current model, although it is "boosting growth" as you said, inevitably leads to periodical collapses causing a lot of harm to many people. We should find a new model, a more stable one, and, as paradoxical as it sounds, I think Bitcoin can be a part of that model.

efxtrader

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Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Government and central banks always increasing money supply in market to boost growth and i think thats can not do with bitcoin. Bitcoin already have limited supply and its decentralized system. But cryptocurrency concept should be working in our currency economic system

Cupomi

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Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

I think the price goes up because demand exceeds the supply of goods, this is an economic principle, but all can happen because there is an ease in paying, for example the credit system is always provided by the bank, so if the convenience is removed, then the purchase will reduced, this caused a decrease in demand, and resulted in an abundant supply of goods, and then we all knew that the abundant stock demand was a little, the price would also drop, something like this could happen if bitcoin became the world's single currency, because bitcoin does not provide credit services.

shendy

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Quote from: setialovers on December 09, 2018, 07:15:58 PM

Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Its hard for bitcoin to be world currency because bitcoin is decentralized. I think bitcoin can be an alternative payment or currency. Every country have different economic strenght and its hard to measure economic if using bitcoin

Not as easy as we imagine, bitcoin has a nature that is not easy to stabilize and will continue to change and this is difficult to accept, even the government has not been able to allow bitcoin to fly freely. The existence of bitcoin is acceptable but if the transaction has not been obtained a permit.

setialovers

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Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Its hard for bitcoin to be world currency because bitcoin is decentralized. I think bitcoin can be an alternative payment or currency. Every country have different economic strenght and its hard to measure economic if using bitcoin

South Park

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Quote from: timerland on December 09, 2018, 12:25:18 AM

Is this debt based system necessarily something that is positive for the economy, though?

The debt based system in which the whole economy is based can be very positive if you are a politician, the owner of a bank and a powerful businessman that is friends with politicians and the owners of banks, they are the ones that benefit the most out of the system and that is why they are going to defend it even if people complain about the unfairness of the system.

ATMD

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Yes, but will governments allow for it.

CarnagexD

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Quote from: randythered on October 14, 2018, 02:27:05 PM

Quote from: Quidat on October 13, 2018, 06:10:21 PM

Quote from: Gozie51 on October 13, 2018, 05:17:47 PM

Quote from: randythered on October 13, 2018, 12:10:14 PM

Quote from: Indamuck on October 13, 2018, 06:26:37 AM

Pretend that all the fiat money in the world is gone and the whole world is only using Bitcoin. Ignore scalability issues for this scenario.

I'm sure most of you know that most money is actually created by banks through fractional reserve lending. Our economy is stimulated by people constantly taking out loans to make purchases. But with bitcoin you can't loan money that doesn't exist. Maybe we would have to change our consumerism as a society and prices would drop. Being able to borrow money easily makes everything rise in price. What are your thoughts?

Lending can still happen even with bitcoin, it's just that the money being used for lending will not be generated out of thin air and therefore there won't be such inflationary pressure on the currency. As for how that would work from an economic point of view it's hard to truly answer as it's never before happened.

Lending in fiat requires some form of security by including third party like guarantors but how will that also be possible with bitcoin where bitcoin even don't adopt third party agreement.

Does an escrow is not enough to be a form of like guarantors? But i'm also confused if how would they will going to do that if everyone was using bitcoin, then people should be talking here forever if they want to loan some bitcoin in the future. I doubt if there's another forum that looks like a bank in the future.

It's really not too difficult, it's the same as in fiat, persons asks to borrow money and the lender asks for something to use as collateral, a house for example with a mortgage. As for governments borrowing money from themselves which they intend to print in the future then as I said that won't be possible. We are already moving away from a world where banks and governments can lend/borrow with little reserves so it's not impossible to function with 100% reserves.

i think yes, this is just one issue on the present status about the Bitcoin which still hanging on the hand of the Regulators by the government financial institution whom critical on the adoption of digital crypto transaction to main stream market. But once this issue is resolved we can see the more favorable transaction on the market.

Betwrong

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Quote from: okala on December 08, 2018, 01:24:23 AM

We are having so many places that has no access to internet and that makes bitcoin not to effectively work in our current system and society. Cryptocurrencies should just remain investments opportunities and not as currency. Investment opportunity mean we should used it to make money and not in other ways.

Basically what you propose is a financial pyramid, which Bitcoin is not. Maybe crypto will not replace fiat completely in the nearest future, but it will be (and it is already, only upon a small scale) a convenient payment system used by many, and only growing of this kind of usage can guarantee the price rising investors are hoping for.

Please research more on the subject yourself by googling "Pyramid scheme", but if you have no time for that, I can tell you what is the main thing of all those pyramids. They create no real goods or services, and they draw income only from new members joining the scheme. I hope now you can see the difference.

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